Jessie & James from 'Hidden Fates' Banned in Expanded

Mysticvulpix

Just be chill
Member
Only way I can think of a way to shut down your opponent with it that fast is reset stamp into Jessie and James with 1 or 2 weezing
 

Gunther Spindler

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Only way I can think of a way to shut down your opponent with it that fast is reset stamp into Jessie and James with 1 or 2 weezing
Peeking Red Card can sometimes work too, if your opponent plays down 3 Pokemons from starting hand, but still not a good ban just like Maxie's instead of just Archeops, and Delinquent instead of Red Card, and even Ghetsis,H Maniac and Wally (they could made an errata for them not allowing them to be played on the first turn if you go first)
 
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I_miss_Zoroark_GX

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Peeking Red Card can sometimes work too, if your opponent plays down 3 Pokemons from starting hand, but still not a good ban just like Maxie's instead of just Archeops, and Delinquent instead of Red Card, and even Ghetsis,H Maniac and Wally (they could made an errata for them not allowing them to be played on the first turn if you go first)

Maxie's and Archeops are both problems. Maxie's can get an Omastar or Kabutops into play turn 1. Archeops can easily be put into play by turn 2 and has no counters outside of Wobbuffet.
 

Otaku

The wise fool?
Member
Only way I can think of a way to shut down your opponent with it that fast is reset stamp into Jessie and James with 1 or 2 weezing
Peeking Red Card can sometimes work too, if your opponent plays down 3 Pokemons from starting hand, but still not a good ban just like Maxie's instead of just Archeops, and Delinquent instead of Red Card, and even Ghetsis,H Maniac and Wally (they could made an errata for them not allowing them to be played on the first turn if you go first)
Maxie's and Archeops are both problems. Maxie's can get an Omastar or Kabutops into play turn 1. Archeops can easily be put into play by turn 2 and has no counters outside of Wobbuffet.

A good ban list has to stay one step ahead of the players; a great one needs to be one step ahead of the developers.

In other words, the Ban List should not consider what is currently a problem, but what is most likely to become a problem and deal with it before it actually happens. That's because the Ban List is - in a sense - for both the players and the designers. Balancing out all those new cards against each other is hard enough, but imagine having to check against a couple thousand cards you haven't thought about for five or more years, just in case one of them creates a "broken" combo.

Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick is Evolution acceleration; while it is in the cardpool, all [F] Type Evolutions must be balanced with its effect. Archeops (NVI) might be "slow" enough to be acceptable sans Maxie and Wally, but while it remains legal you can't have any Evolution acceleration that could work with it.

What about Jesse & James? Expanded gives them access to VS Seeker and Tapu Lele-GX in most competitive decks, right? Um... actually, I am asking; I haven't been done anything with Expanded in a while and there aren't exactly recent tournament results to provide a framework. XP So, unless that has changed, pulling off a T1 Jesse & James and/or being able to easily spam a single copy in your deck once it hits the discard pile is a "thing". Exeggcute (PLF) provides a potential counter to it, but also alternate discard fodder. Next bring in cards like Red Card (if you want to smack their hand T1), Reset Stamp (to crunch their hand mid-to-late game), etc. Finally, get to the Jesse & James-specific combos. Yeah, that much is going for them before we bring in Weezing or having both of them as a lead-in for Honchkrow-GX or other control decks!

One should also remember, even if your entire opening hand isn't obliterated, it still stinks when your opponent can damage your hand on T1 when T2 is your opening turn.
 
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