Is RNGing Ethical?

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What I think is that the people here who find it unethical are the people who actually play VGC irl. I can understand why you guys think this way; you do all of that work, breeding over and over again until you get the Pokemon you want. However, to be fair, RNG isn't exactly "calibrate your DS, hit your target time, win"; it's more complicated than people who don't RNG think.

For example, I just successfully RNGd a 31/x/x/31/x/31 Timid Darkrai; it wasn't exactly a piece of cake, even if RNGing in Gen. 4 is that easy. Once I calibrated my DS, which only took, say, an hour, I had to get frustrated over and over again, hitting the stupid target time with the annoyance that is known as delay. Once I did that, I had to advance the RNG, which surprisingly took a while. And once that was finished, I had to catch the Darkrai (granted, it took a while until I used a Dusk Ball to catch it).

Okay, maybe I take more time than people at RNGing, but RNGing is still by no means simple. And the people who don't breed for at least a perfect Speed IV (which can break a speed tie, sometimes changing the match) will be at a disadvantage. But of course they're at a disadvantage; they didn't put in the extra two minutes to breed down a speed IV from a flawless Ditto. If people don't want to put it in the extra work (which isn't long at all), why do they deserve to frown upon people who do said work?

That's just my take on it.
 
The Yoshi said:
What I think is that the people here who find it unethical are the people who actually play VGC irl. I can understand why you guys think this way; you do all of that work, breeding over and over again until you get the Pokemon you want. However, to be fair, RNG isn't exactly "calibrate your DS, hit your target time, win"; it's more complicated than people who don't RNG think.

For example, I just successfully RNGd a 31/x/x/31/x/31 Timid Darkrai; it wasn't exactly a piece of cake, even if RNGing in Gen. 4 is that easy. Once I calibrated my DS, which only took, say, an hour, I had to get frustrated over and over again, hitting the stupid target time with the annoyance that is known as delay. Once I did that, I had to advance the RNG, which surprisingly took a while. And once that was finished, I had to catch the Darkrai (granted, it took a while until I used a Dusk Ball to catch it).

Okay, maybe I take more time than people at RNGing, but RNGing is still by no means simple. And the people who don't breed for at least a perfect Speed IV (which can break a speed tie, sometimes changing the match) will be at a disadvantage. But of course they're at a disadvantage; they didn't put in the extra two minutes to breed down a speed IV from a flawless Ditto. If people don't want to put it in the extra work (which isn't long at all), why do they deserve to frown upon people who do said work?

That's just my take on it.
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Your right in that I don't understand how it works. I will say this though. I have maxed out the time in my main game in both 4th and 5th gen (999:59) breeding guys for tournaments. Although I have gotten a couple guys who have good IV spreads, I have yet to breed a team of all perfect shinies. So how frustrating do you think it is to breed that many eggs to get good teams, just to have someone use RNG and do basically what I do but with better results in less time?
 
So what you're saying is that you don't want to take the time and effort to learn how to RNG yourself, right? IMO, shininess is pointless; it's not giving you any advantage over the opponent, it's just making your 'Mon look cool. If you're frustrated with the abuse of RNG so much, why don't you try it yourself?
 
He doesn't try it since Nintendo does not say it is OK or approve its usage.
 
The Yoshi said:
So what you're saying is that you don't want to take the time and effort to learn how to RNG yourself, right? IMO, shininess is pointless; it's not giving you any advantage over the opponent, it's just making your 'Mon look cool. If you're frustrated with the abuse of RNG so much, why don't you try it yourself?
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No, I'm saying I don't see why RNG has turned into a requirement for tourney play and that it's frustrating people can do it to get superior pokemon in less time... and if they do it right they are pretty much guaranteed. As for shininess, I realize it doesn't affect play, but the fact that RNG can bend the probability so much bothers me.

Additionally, Scizor is right. I don't do it because Nintendo hasn't taken a stance on it. I don't consider something legal "just because I can". I "could" do a lot of things I probably shouldn't. Also, after having conversations with some of the RNGers at VGC, I'd never do it.

Chariblaze said:
Nintendo does not approve the usage of an IV calculator.
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I don't use an IV calculator. I use the Judge in the battle trains/ battle frontier. That being said, that doesn't bother me. It doesn't affect any outcomes. You have to have the poke before you can check it.
 
I also use the judge but have used metalkid's out of curiousity. I agree with the shiny thing. There are people who hunt shinies in all forms and even then they might not get what they want. Then some RNG guy comes along and has what you do just 10 times better and it took him 3 minutes to do so. It seems unfair that someone just gets something super rare without any effort. Just use a calculator and done.I agree with one of Matt's earlier post about always winning the lottery.
 
As Pokeplayer44 has said, RNG is not a requirement for tourney play. The player makes the team; it is rarely the other way around.
 
Every formula has its flaws. You can't really define true randomness. I could do $x = mt_rand(0,31); The function mt_rand is seeded. It could be predicted what value could come out if you analyze the php source which is written in C++, though it would not be easy.
 
That is true. But IVs sometimes make the difference. It could come down to 2 extra IVs let your opponent survive with 2 HP then cost you the game because they survived.
 
The Yoshi said:
As Pokeplayer44 has said, RNG is not a requirement for tourney play. The player makes the team; it is rarely the other way around.
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See my sig. Apparently if I'm not using RNG I am looked down upon as weak. The people I fought at the VGC that used RNG basically said the same thing. I am not considered competitive because I had not heard of it or used it. I take major offense to that. My statement about it being a "requirement" was a bit of sarcasm... so I can see the confusion.. text doesn't convey tone, lol.

Also, having a couple extra stat points due to IVs CAN make or break the game. My final round I won because my T-tar survived a move from a Hydriegon with 8 or 9 HP and then retaliated with Outrage. Perfect stats do make a difference.
 
Remember that damage also has variance based on the R value. It isn't going to be x damage every time. This variable can't be controlled or predicted to the best of my knowledge.
 
King Arceus said:
Remember that damage also has variance based on the R value. It isn't going to be x damage every time. This variable can't be controlled or predicted to the best of my knowledge.
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No, that's one bit of randomness that has so far not had a "method" remove or diminish it. ;)
 
I actually lost 4-0 in my 2nd match because his Thundurous (RNGd) survived with enough HP to not be Ko'd by sandstorm. and his Tyranitar (RNGd) survived my Discharge with 1 pixel of health. IVs most certainly make a difference. ( I was also in SE :p)

SuperMatt142 said:
No, that's one bit of randomness that has so far not had a "method" remove or diminish it. ;)
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Unless you had some sort of supercomputer-like brain who could predict when to pick your mvoes to do the most possible damage. That seems a little insane, though.
 
Luxray :D said:
I actually lost 4-0 in my 2nd match because his Thundurous (RNGd) survived with enough HP to not be Ko'd by sandstorm. and his Tyranitar (RNGd) survived my Discharge with 1 pixel of health. IVs most certainly make a difference. ( I was also in SE :p)


Unless you had some sort of supercomputer-like brain who could predict when to pick your mvoes to do the most possible damage. That seems a little insane, though.
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Hopefully no one ever breaks and removes the random damage variable. I'd quit tournies if that were the case. [/lolz]
 
RNG isn't hacking because it is just increasing the odds like the Masuda method, just to a much larger extent. You can do all the same things without RNG, but you'd just have to be much luckier.
 
IMO RNG is not ethical at all. Sure, it's legit, but not ethical. Even the method is called Random Number Generator (RNG) ABUSE. Abusing the system, that's what it is. If you want to play with perfect monsters and not spend time getting them, play Pokémon Online.
 
Teal said:
IMO RNG is not ethical at all. Sure, it's legit, but not ethical. Even the method is called Random Number Generator (RNG) ABUSE. Abusing the system, that's what it is. If you want to play with perfect monsters and not spend time getting them, play Pokémon Online.
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RNGing is ethical. It allows you to get good pokemon without wasting your entire life. Even if you weren't allowed to RNG, every team in the tournament would be cloned.
 
iisnumber12 said:
RNGing is ethical. It allows you to get good pokemon without wasting your entire life. Even if you weren't allowed to RNG, every team in the tournament would be cloned.
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How can you say that your opinion is a fact. IMO - in my opinion - as I said, it is not.
 
SuperMatt142 said:
It doesn't technically use an outside device to edit data, but at some point a device would have had to have been used to rip the source code from the cartridge thus discovering this technique.
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How do you think people discovered EV training, the extensive lists of egg moves, and how to get things like Volt Tackle on a Pikachu? People don't just experiment with the game like that, could you have easily figured out EV training if you had no outside help? Of course not.

And if you people are arguing about abuse of the system, just take a quick look at your neighborhood lawyer or politician. And also, ask yourself this; would you rather have a subpar team that took a month to build, or a great team that only took a week?
 
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