Hello all. I am back again with multiple updates to my old Ice Rider list from almost exactly 1 year ago.
Even though Ice Rider is far from Tier 1, I think with the right match ups and some good piloting it can still survive against Arceus VSTAR and Mew VMAX and be a fun locals suprise deck.
I've got 2 versions of the list - one for just after Astral Radiance and one for after the 2023 rotation despite not knowing what will be in our August expansion set exactly, except for cards that I looked up that should be getting a regulation mark F reprint. Jumping the gun a bit there but I don't suspect water getting an intense amount of support after Palkia VSTAR just dropping in Astral Radiance. Let's start with before rotation.
Pokemon x20
3x Ice Rider V
2x Ice Rider VMAX
2x Palkia V
2x Palkia VSTAR
4x Sobble
3x Drizzile
1x Inteleon (Shady Dealings)
1x Inteleon (Quick Shooting)
1x Manaphy
1x Radiant Greninja
Supporter x10
2x Melony
2x Irida
2x Research
2x Boss
1x Roxanne
1x Leon
Item x21
4x Quick Ball
4x Level Ball
2x Ultra Ball
2x Evo Incense
2x Capacious Bucket
2x Switch
2x Scoop Up Net
2x Choice Belt
1x Tool Scrapper
Stadium x2
2x Temple of Sinnoh
Energy x7
7x Water Energy
This is roughly what I'm looking at right now for a Post-Astral Radiance list. Admittedly, a good portion of it makes me feel kind of uncomfortable with the ratios, but the deck is tight with the demands it needs to meet. Let's get started with my usual card by card
3/2 Ice Rider VMAX Line - This is sort of the absolute minimum, but Ice Rider is still the star of the show. The line needs to be thinned down from a pure 4/3 line to have room for Palkia, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The overall logic with Ice Rider VMAX being decent still is that we are starting to shift into a VSTAR format thanks to Arceus VSTAR. Ice Rider hits 250 base which means 280 with Choice Belt to OHKO all currently known VSTARs. Yes, I know Arceus VSTAR decks play Big Charm and that Mew VMAX is still probably the #1 deck and has 310 HP. We'll get to that in a minute.
2/2 Palkia VSTAR Line - For the most part, this is existing almost exclusively for the VSTAR ability. Accelerate 3 energy onto Ice Rider VMAX means back to back 280 damage (with Choice Belt) immediately and swings tempo massively. Especially while the Inteleon line is around doing all the searching for you (instead of Arceus VSTAR), I think that Palkia VSTAR is prefered here in order to compete in terms of raw momentum. Palkia also does just fine as a back up attacker against other VSTAR decks with a damage ceiling of 260, or 290 with Choice Belt. However most people aren't going to just play into that for you. I suppose Mew VMAX would since they fill their full bench on turn 1 ideally.
4/3/1/1 Inteleon Line - Had to get thinned down for space, but also because a 4/4/2/1 line I was running previously is just way too heavy with all the other options we have nowadays. Quick shooting Inteleon can't go. It's 1 of the few ways Ice Rider can keep up with Mew VMAX by pinging the 20 damage twice, typically on the second Mew VMAX. It also just helps with anything that goes over 310 HP as well, like Urshifu VMAX. I don't think this needs to be explained too much since Inteleon line is basically format defining.
Manaphy - Respect Urshifu VMAX. Always.
Radiant Greninja - Drizzile search for a bucket, get 2 energies, discard 1 draw 2, attach 1, Melony the other. Palkia can also ramp 3 energy onto this guy real quick (or accelerate 2 and attach 1 for turn and put the 3rd on itself or an Ice Rider) to smack 90 and 90 to two Mew V/VMAX and your game becomes incredibly simplified while pushing for the possibly 7 prize game. Works when you need him, not sad to see him get discarded when you don't. No reason not to run this guy in water decks I feel.
As far as supporters are concerned, I'm not going to talk about the staples that are Melony, Research, and Boss. Let's get to the spicier stuff.
Roxanne - Taking her over Marnie for the very simple reason that her impact is far greater than Marnie and I don't have room for 1 copy of both of them. The deck's primary threat is a VMAX, which means your opponent KO's you once before you can let Roxanne rip. I expect to see Roxanne in every deck post rotation played over Judge, and I think she'll replace 1 copy of Marnie in most people's decks as well.
Raihan - Has been cut in favor of Irida. Water decks no longer have to wait for a KO to search for cards they want to see. Irida can do it proactively and Palkia VSTAR means you don't need his energy acceleration anymore either over Melony.
Leon - This is the final piece of dealing with Mew VMAX and above in 1 turn. Ice Rider VMAX base 250 + Choice Belt for 280 + Leon for 310, and you can play the Leon much easier now with Palkia VSTAR getting you your energy instead of Melony. If you add this play to Quick Shooting Inteleon, you get 330 damage in 1 turn to handle most VMAXes right now. Also if I can't get to my Tool Scrapper for Big Charm Arceus VSTAR, this is also my answer to Arceus VSTAR with a Big Charm on it.
For items I think I doin't have to explain much either except for 1 thing.
Tool Scrapper - Necessary for all the big charm Arceus VSTAR decks out there.
Temple of Sinnoh - This is the new Path to the Peak for the deck. Now that you rely on Palkia VSTAR ability, Peak is way too greedy of a card, and if someone drops a super clutch Peak on you, there's no way for you to out it if you're running Peak yourself. Attempting to shut off special energy decks, aka Mew VMAX and everyone running double turbo energy, is the next best thing as well as to have an out to Path to the Peaks trying to shut down Palkia.
To be frank, 7 water energy makes me want to scream, but it won't be that lethal compared to the normal 8 energy I usually play for this deck.
So now that that's taken care of, let's talk about post rotation with currently known cards and cards that will/won't survive rotation.
Pokemon x19
3x Ice Rider V
2x Ice Rider VMAX
3x Palkia V
2x Palkia VSTAR
2x Suicune V
1x Starmie V
2x Swablu
2x Altaria
1x Manaphy
1x Radiant Greninja
Supporter x11
2x Melony
2x Irida
2x Research
2x Boss
1x Roxanne
1x Cynthia's Ambition
1x Cheryl
Item x19
4x Ultra Ball
4x Trekking Shoes
3x Level Ball
2x Energy Search
2x Choice Belt
2x Switch
2x Escape Rope
Stadium x3
3x Temple of Sinnoh
Energy x8
8x Water Energy
Right out the gate, I am way more excited for this post rotation list than I am the list I'm running right now.
With Inteleon rotated, that makes room for other support Pokemon to get a chance to shine. In this case, I'm refering to the 1/1 Altaria line that stacks the deck, and this is the ultimate water box deck that I'm super excited to pilot ASAP. Let me start with the Altaria line.
2/2 Altaria Line - Level Ball survives the rotation, and I wanted to play something that still benefits from Level Ball's consistency unlike Liepard or Bibarel. Considering how much this deck relies on Melony and Irida to get set up, I figured this is one of the best things you can run. With Radiant Greninja, Suicune V, and Trekking Shoes in the deck, stacking the deck and drawing into a supporter immediately is easier for water than it is for other decks. Altaria also helps you pick your timing for Roxanne, Cheryl, and Cynthia's Ambition. With a lot of consistency items leaving the format and the best item searcher (Inteleon line) leaving the format as well, that to me means one thing - until new cards or reprints arise, we are back to a more supporter focused format for consistency. Bibarel can increase consistency as well, but with no Level Ball to search Bibarel it's far less consistent, and Liepard wants to be played in multiples to spam the draw power. All those reasons brought me to Altaria.
Starmie V - This is the other card that comes in. Starmie V noteably has free retreat in a world where Air Balloon has rotated, but more importantly with the loss of Leon, the ability to OHKO Mew VMAX has been lost. It's a little bit of a steep condition - 6 energy across the Mew VMAX player's board with a Choice Belt to snag the OHKO - but that's just one of the possible outs. Radiant Greninja hitting 90 on two Mew V/VMAX to soften them up to 220 HP remaining is the other option.
Suicune V - Outside of being just an aid for Altaria, this is just another water exclusive consistency option as well as a back up Palkia VSTAR attacker that doesn't need to evolve to hit good numbers. When speed is important, Suicune V is there. My #1 desired opening active Pokemon.
Lumineon V - Was in the first draft of this list, but has since been cut. I would rather have Suicune out to draw me an extra card going first when I can't play a supporter and have nothing set up yet, and once Altaria is set up, Suicune V + Altaria is just as good as a Lumineon V, so it feels uneeded with my support line up. Lumineon V would be better if the choice support Pokemon was Bibarel. The 170 HP is also a massive liability. Anything under the sun can OHKO it with 0 effort. Suicune V at least takes a Choice Belt for things like Arceus VSTAR to take out.
Radiant Greninja - Becomes even more important after rotation because of the overall loss of consistency, being an aid for Altaria, and the 90 damage to two Pokemon making your math a lot better in all match ups in a format that is looking to be slower than the current one due to temporary consistency drops.
Research - Was previously at 3, bumped back down to 2 because Irida is just a better card in this list for getting set up.
Irida - Did not realize this card was going to be a thing until I did some research. Mandatory 2 of in the list. She becomes evolution incense for your VMAX & VSTAR evolutions as well as searches level ball to set up Altaria faster. Functionally becomes Shady Dealings Inteleon on a supporter card that can be dropped immediately for specifically water.
Cynthia's Ambition - This is the flex spot right now. The way I see it is that more times I'd rather draw to 8 than use Raihan, especially since Palkia VSTAR already accelerates my energy much better and Irida searches everything I care about besides stadiums. Especially since I expect to get knocked out quite a bit with Starmie, Suicune, and Radiant Greninja frontlining sometimes. Even without the knockout condition, if I can empty my whole hand I'll gladly play her as a Bibarel for turn. I think that flexibility of play option makes her good enough to take for bonus consistency.
Cheryl - An amazing one of supporter that helps support the thinner 3/2 lines of Ice Rider and Palkia. As long as you don't get OHKO'd, especially on Ice Rider VMAX where most decks struggle to OHKO, Cheryl buys you 1-2 extra turns and prevents you from having to go back into your deck to set up more copies. When the game runs ideally, you aren't attacking until your 2nd turn anyway, which means you can just attach energy for turn 2 times to make Ice Rider or Palkia come online. Once you ditch the 2 energy off of Ice Rider or take a hit on Palkia, you can Cheryl the energy off and then use Palkia VSTAR to accelerate it all back on and go again. My problem with Cheryl in old Ice Rider lists is that you can't play Melony and Cheryl in the same turn, so you don't achieve anything when it slows you down 1 turn as well. But Palkia VSTAR opens the doors for Cheryl to severly put your opponent behind and save you from having to get set up again in a format with quick ball and evo incense gone.
4 Trekking Shoes - with the loss of Quick Ball, this kind of becomes the next best thing to move through the deck as well as synergize with Altaria. I considered battle VIP pass, but when the deck is already slower and less consistent, I don't want to run 4 bricks in the deck past turn 1. Trekking Shoes are also great for if you reveal water energy that you don't need, you can pitch it for Melony/Palkia and go another card deeper.
3x Level Ball - Despite bumping up to a 2/2 line now, I still want 3 of these in the list to get them set up as quickly as possible. Extra copies can just go to Manaphy or be discarded.
2x Energy Search - I've been told a regulation mark F version of this card is coming. This replaces Capacious bucket which rotates and having a few copies in the deck means that Irida can search for energy for you by searching for this item. Even though it searches for less energy than Capacious bucket, it just is what it is. Having a few copies is still good as an item searchable by Irida.
2x Switch, 2x Rope - With Scoop Up net and Air Balloon rotating, this becomes the new pivot options. Starmie V makes Rope basically just as good as Boss's Orders on an item card. Keeping the ratios even because manually retreating after a rope in order to load discard pile for Palkia VSTAR is a legitimate strategy to not lose pace.
8x Water Energy - I want the energy count to be higher so that there's a higher chance for Trekking Shoes to flip one off the top to discard it and then draw 1. Also thinking about energy investments, I'd like 2 on Ice Rider and Palkia at all times, so that's 4 energy used. After that, I'd like 3 energy on Radiant Greninja to use sometimes, or 2 either on Suicune or Starmie V. So that's 6-7 energy that I need, and almost always 1 will go to prizes. This count makes sure you're not short, especially since Radiant Greninja will be needed a lot more to fix math.
All in all, I think this deck has a worse match up against Mew VMAX than pre-rotation (let's be real, it's already not favorable), but there's not much you can do about it. I don't think this list will see competitive success and nor is that the current goal. I'm a locals guy and toolboxing like this brings me great joy. If anything, I might want room for 3 Choice Belts as I update the list.
I know this is two decks at once so it's a huge read, but thanks for making it to the bottom. As per usual, feedback and suggestions are always welcome. I'm one dude and I'm sure I missed some good cards to consider.
EDIT1: Updated the list with new findings and after talking with some people. Hisuian Heavy Ball was a card I considered, but the only 1 of in the deck that I'd be kind of upset to see prized is Radiant Greninja. I don't think it's appropriate for this list. If I was playing more 1 ofs then I would definitely toss one in, but for now I think it's just a dead card, especially when you prize your evolutions too. I'm still debating doing something like 2/2 Ice Rider 3/3 Palkia, but since we're losing quick ball, I think that increasing the bottom end is more important so that you can get set up quicker. All things considered, you're only going to be using 1 Ice Rider VMAX and 1 Palkia VSTAR per game anyway. Once each of those get KO'd, that's 5 prizes and then people can just boss up Altaria for game, so that's also why I feel like a 3/2 line is just fine. You can prize 1 or discard 1 and still be okay with Ultra Ball and Irida.
Even though Ice Rider is far from Tier 1, I think with the right match ups and some good piloting it can still survive against Arceus VSTAR and Mew VMAX and be a fun locals suprise deck.
I've got 2 versions of the list - one for just after Astral Radiance and one for after the 2023 rotation despite not knowing what will be in our August expansion set exactly, except for cards that I looked up that should be getting a regulation mark F reprint. Jumping the gun a bit there but I don't suspect water getting an intense amount of support after Palkia VSTAR just dropping in Astral Radiance. Let's start with before rotation.
Pokemon x20
3x Ice Rider V
2x Ice Rider VMAX
2x Palkia V
2x Palkia VSTAR
4x Sobble
3x Drizzile
1x Inteleon (Shady Dealings)
1x Inteleon (Quick Shooting)
1x Manaphy
1x Radiant Greninja
Supporter x10
2x Melony
2x Irida
2x Research
2x Boss
1x Roxanne
1x Leon
Item x21
4x Quick Ball
4x Level Ball
2x Ultra Ball
2x Evo Incense
2x Capacious Bucket
2x Switch
2x Scoop Up Net
2x Choice Belt
1x Tool Scrapper
Stadium x2
2x Temple of Sinnoh
Energy x7
7x Water Energy
This is roughly what I'm looking at right now for a Post-Astral Radiance list. Admittedly, a good portion of it makes me feel kind of uncomfortable with the ratios, but the deck is tight with the demands it needs to meet. Let's get started with my usual card by card
3/2 Ice Rider VMAX Line - This is sort of the absolute minimum, but Ice Rider is still the star of the show. The line needs to be thinned down from a pure 4/3 line to have room for Palkia, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The overall logic with Ice Rider VMAX being decent still is that we are starting to shift into a VSTAR format thanks to Arceus VSTAR. Ice Rider hits 250 base which means 280 with Choice Belt to OHKO all currently known VSTARs. Yes, I know Arceus VSTAR decks play Big Charm and that Mew VMAX is still probably the #1 deck and has 310 HP. We'll get to that in a minute.
2/2 Palkia VSTAR Line - For the most part, this is existing almost exclusively for the VSTAR ability. Accelerate 3 energy onto Ice Rider VMAX means back to back 280 damage (with Choice Belt) immediately and swings tempo massively. Especially while the Inteleon line is around doing all the searching for you (instead of Arceus VSTAR), I think that Palkia VSTAR is prefered here in order to compete in terms of raw momentum. Palkia also does just fine as a back up attacker against other VSTAR decks with a damage ceiling of 260, or 290 with Choice Belt. However most people aren't going to just play into that for you. I suppose Mew VMAX would since they fill their full bench on turn 1 ideally.
4/3/1/1 Inteleon Line - Had to get thinned down for space, but also because a 4/4/2/1 line I was running previously is just way too heavy with all the other options we have nowadays. Quick shooting Inteleon can't go. It's 1 of the few ways Ice Rider can keep up with Mew VMAX by pinging the 20 damage twice, typically on the second Mew VMAX. It also just helps with anything that goes over 310 HP as well, like Urshifu VMAX. I don't think this needs to be explained too much since Inteleon line is basically format defining.
Manaphy - Respect Urshifu VMAX. Always.
Radiant Greninja - Drizzile search for a bucket, get 2 energies, discard 1 draw 2, attach 1, Melony the other. Palkia can also ramp 3 energy onto this guy real quick (or accelerate 2 and attach 1 for turn and put the 3rd on itself or an Ice Rider) to smack 90 and 90 to two Mew V/VMAX and your game becomes incredibly simplified while pushing for the possibly 7 prize game. Works when you need him, not sad to see him get discarded when you don't. No reason not to run this guy in water decks I feel.
As far as supporters are concerned, I'm not going to talk about the staples that are Melony, Research, and Boss. Let's get to the spicier stuff.
Roxanne - Taking her over Marnie for the very simple reason that her impact is far greater than Marnie and I don't have room for 1 copy of both of them. The deck's primary threat is a VMAX, which means your opponent KO's you once before you can let Roxanne rip. I expect to see Roxanne in every deck post rotation played over Judge, and I think she'll replace 1 copy of Marnie in most people's decks as well.
Leon - This is the final piece of dealing with Mew VMAX and above in 1 turn. Ice Rider VMAX base 250 + Choice Belt for 280 + Leon for 310, and you can play the Leon much easier now with Palkia VSTAR getting you your energy instead of Melony. If you add this play to Quick Shooting Inteleon, you get 330 damage in 1 turn to handle most VMAXes right now. Also if I can't get to my Tool Scrapper for Big Charm Arceus VSTAR, this is also my answer to Arceus VSTAR with a Big Charm on it.
For items I think I doin't have to explain much either except for 1 thing.
Tool Scrapper - Necessary for all the big charm Arceus VSTAR decks out there.
Temple of Sinnoh - This is the new Path to the Peak for the deck. Now that you rely on Palkia VSTAR ability, Peak is way too greedy of a card, and if someone drops a super clutch Peak on you, there's no way for you to out it if you're running Peak yourself. Attempting to shut off special energy decks, aka Mew VMAX and everyone running double turbo energy, is the next best thing as well as to have an out to Path to the Peaks trying to shut down Palkia.
To be frank, 7 water energy makes me want to scream, but it won't be that lethal compared to the normal 8 energy I usually play for this deck.
So now that that's taken care of, let's talk about post rotation with currently known cards and cards that will/won't survive rotation.
Pokemon x19
3x Ice Rider V
2x Ice Rider VMAX
3x Palkia V
2x Palkia VSTAR
2x Suicune V
1x Starmie V
2x Swablu
2x Altaria
1x Manaphy
1x Radiant Greninja
Supporter x11
2x Melony
2x Irida
2x Research
2x Boss
1x Roxanne
1x Cynthia's Ambition
1x Cheryl
Item x19
4x Ultra Ball
4x Trekking Shoes
3x Level Ball
2x Energy Search
2x Choice Belt
2x Switch
2x Escape Rope
Stadium x3
3x Temple of Sinnoh
Energy x8
8x Water Energy
Right out the gate, I am way more excited for this post rotation list than I am the list I'm running right now.
With Inteleon rotated, that makes room for other support Pokemon to get a chance to shine. In this case, I'm refering to the 1/1 Altaria line that stacks the deck, and this is the ultimate water box deck that I'm super excited to pilot ASAP. Let me start with the Altaria line.
2/2 Altaria Line - Level Ball survives the rotation, and I wanted to play something that still benefits from Level Ball's consistency unlike Liepard or Bibarel. Considering how much this deck relies on Melony and Irida to get set up, I figured this is one of the best things you can run. With Radiant Greninja, Suicune V, and Trekking Shoes in the deck, stacking the deck and drawing into a supporter immediately is easier for water than it is for other decks. Altaria also helps you pick your timing for Roxanne, Cheryl, and Cynthia's Ambition. With a lot of consistency items leaving the format and the best item searcher (Inteleon line) leaving the format as well, that to me means one thing - until new cards or reprints arise, we are back to a more supporter focused format for consistency. Bibarel can increase consistency as well, but with no Level Ball to search Bibarel it's far less consistent, and Liepard wants to be played in multiples to spam the draw power. All those reasons brought me to Altaria.
Starmie V - This is the other card that comes in. Starmie V noteably has free retreat in a world where Air Balloon has rotated, but more importantly with the loss of Leon, the ability to OHKO Mew VMAX has been lost. It's a little bit of a steep condition - 6 energy across the Mew VMAX player's board with a Choice Belt to snag the OHKO - but that's just one of the possible outs. Radiant Greninja hitting 90 on two Mew V/VMAX to soften them up to 220 HP remaining is the other option.
Suicune V - Outside of being just an aid for Altaria, this is just another water exclusive consistency option as well as a back up Palkia VSTAR attacker that doesn't need to evolve to hit good numbers. When speed is important, Suicune V is there. My #1 desired opening active Pokemon.
Radiant Greninja - Becomes even more important after rotation because of the overall loss of consistency, being an aid for Altaria, and the 90 damage to two Pokemon making your math a lot better in all match ups in a format that is looking to be slower than the current one due to temporary consistency drops.
Research - Was previously at 3, bumped back down to 2 because Irida is just a better card in this list for getting set up.
Irida - Did not realize this card was going to be a thing until I did some research. Mandatory 2 of in the list. She becomes evolution incense for your VMAX & VSTAR evolutions as well as searches level ball to set up Altaria faster. Functionally becomes Shady Dealings Inteleon on a supporter card that can be dropped immediately for specifically water.
Cynthia's Ambition - This is the flex spot right now. The way I see it is that more times I'd rather draw to 8 than use Raihan, especially since Palkia VSTAR already accelerates my energy much better and Irida searches everything I care about besides stadiums. Especially since I expect to get knocked out quite a bit with Starmie, Suicune, and Radiant Greninja frontlining sometimes. Even without the knockout condition, if I can empty my whole hand I'll gladly play her as a Bibarel for turn. I think that flexibility of play option makes her good enough to take for bonus consistency.
Cheryl - An amazing one of supporter that helps support the thinner 3/2 lines of Ice Rider and Palkia. As long as you don't get OHKO'd, especially on Ice Rider VMAX where most decks struggle to OHKO, Cheryl buys you 1-2 extra turns and prevents you from having to go back into your deck to set up more copies. When the game runs ideally, you aren't attacking until your 2nd turn anyway, which means you can just attach energy for turn 2 times to make Ice Rider or Palkia come online. Once you ditch the 2 energy off of Ice Rider or take a hit on Palkia, you can Cheryl the energy off and then use Palkia VSTAR to accelerate it all back on and go again. My problem with Cheryl in old Ice Rider lists is that you can't play Melony and Cheryl in the same turn, so you don't achieve anything when it slows you down 1 turn as well. But Palkia VSTAR opens the doors for Cheryl to severly put your opponent behind and save you from having to get set up again in a format with quick ball and evo incense gone.
4 Trekking Shoes - with the loss of Quick Ball, this kind of becomes the next best thing to move through the deck as well as synergize with Altaria. I considered battle VIP pass, but when the deck is already slower and less consistent, I don't want to run 4 bricks in the deck past turn 1. Trekking Shoes are also great for if you reveal water energy that you don't need, you can pitch it for Melony/Palkia and go another card deeper.
3x Level Ball - Despite bumping up to a 2/2 line now, I still want 3 of these in the list to get them set up as quickly as possible. Extra copies can just go to Manaphy or be discarded.
2x Energy Search - I've been told a regulation mark F version of this card is coming. This replaces Capacious bucket which rotates and having a few copies in the deck means that Irida can search for energy for you by searching for this item. Even though it searches for less energy than Capacious bucket, it just is what it is. Having a few copies is still good as an item searchable by Irida.
2x Switch, 2x Rope - With Scoop Up net and Air Balloon rotating, this becomes the new pivot options. Starmie V makes Rope basically just as good as Boss's Orders on an item card. Keeping the ratios even because manually retreating after a rope in order to load discard pile for Palkia VSTAR is a legitimate strategy to not lose pace.
8x Water Energy - I want the energy count to be higher so that there's a higher chance for Trekking Shoes to flip one off the top to discard it and then draw 1. Also thinking about energy investments, I'd like 2 on Ice Rider and Palkia at all times, so that's 4 energy used. After that, I'd like 3 energy on Radiant Greninja to use sometimes, or 2 either on Suicune or Starmie V. So that's 6-7 energy that I need, and almost always 1 will go to prizes. This count makes sure you're not short, especially since Radiant Greninja will be needed a lot more to fix math.
All in all, I think this deck has a worse match up against Mew VMAX than pre-rotation (let's be real, it's already not favorable), but there's not much you can do about it. I don't think this list will see competitive success and nor is that the current goal. I'm a locals guy and toolboxing like this brings me great joy. If anything, I might want room for 3 Choice Belts as I update the list.
I know this is two decks at once so it's a huge read, but thanks for making it to the bottom. As per usual, feedback and suggestions are always welcome. I'm one dude and I'm sure I missed some good cards to consider.
EDIT1: Updated the list with new findings and after talking with some people. Hisuian Heavy Ball was a card I considered, but the only 1 of in the deck that I'd be kind of upset to see prized is Radiant Greninja. I don't think it's appropriate for this list. If I was playing more 1 ofs then I would definitely toss one in, but for now I think it's just a dead card, especially when you prize your evolutions too. I'm still debating doing something like 2/2 Ice Rider 3/3 Palkia, but since we're losing quick ball, I think that increasing the bottom end is more important so that you can get set up quicker. All things considered, you're only going to be using 1 Ice Rider VMAX and 1 Palkia VSTAR per game anyway. Once each of those get KO'd, that's 5 prizes and then people can just boss up Altaria for game, so that's also why I feel like a 3/2 line is just fine. You can prize 1 or discard 1 and still be okay with Ultra Ball and Irida.
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