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Ho-Oh LEGEND

DjJoe

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I built this deck originally as a fun deck, but since playing and toying with it, it's gotten to a point of taking first place and going 3-1 in many of my local tournaments. It's last 20 matches only lost 3, with two of those being Donks and one being an Energy cluttered mess against LostGar.


Before I get into details of anything, which seems it's required having seen no other Ho-Oh LEGEND decks in the forum, here is my current decklist:


Pokemon (26):
2 Ho-Oh LEGEND (Top)
2 Ho-Oh LEGEND (Bottom)
4 Chikorita (HS)
3 Bayleef (HS/CL)
3 Meganium PRIME (HS)
4 Tangela (CL)
2 Tangrowth (CL)
1 Tangrowth LVX (AR)
1 Spirittomb (AR)
1 Smeargle (CL)
1 Ambipom G (RR)
2 Uxie (LA)


Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums(17):
2 Warp Point
1 Switch
1 Energy Exchanger
1 Luxury Ball
3 Expert Belt
2 Seeker
3 Bebe's Search
2 Professor Oak's New Theory
1Twins
1 Interviewer's Questions

Energy(17):
2 Rescue Energy
3 Double Colorless Energy
12 Grass Energy


Now the Details:

I wanted Ho-Oh LEGEND to be my main thing. Originally, it was "Get it out, attack once, brag that I was able to do it". I threw Meganium Primes in after being convinced it was the worst Prime printed, and threw in a line of Scyther(jungle)/Scizor(SF). This was before Call of Legends was released. Anyway, I threw together what, on paper, was the most horrific ensemble of worst cards. After 4-5 Games, I realized how horribly wrong that opinion was. I tweaked the deck to fit in a second LEGEND set (That's right, it only ran one originally), more Meganium (From 2), and so forth. The Ambipom G was originally a four-of, alongside Double Colorless Energy, for a first turn Donkfest. It was fun for a while, but then Call of Legends came out, my friend gave me a Tangrowth LVX, and I began making some changes.


Single Card Discussion:

Ho-Oh LEGEND: As said, my original goal was to play it. 100 attack on a flashy LEGEND? Seemed good to me, and the ability to utilize DCE as fire to work it was appealing to me. I ran through ideas and found one that worked- Using a slow setup with other Grass pokemon, sending out Ho-Oh, and Leaf Transing what was necessary to it.

Meganium PRIME: The second key to my combo. It's Leaf Trans allows me to maintain board position with a 150HP body, and with retreating techniques and so forth keep the energy on the field until Ho-Oh comes out. a GGXX 80 damage attack is nothing to scoff at, given my method of Energy placement, and I have won many a game using it without ever need Ho-Oh.

Tangela: Tangela does what I had trouble doing previously with Scizor SF; It gets energy out there, and absorbs. A 70 HP body is highly unlikely to donk, and for a single Grass Energy it begins filling my field.

Tangrowth: Tangrowth I stumbled upon by off-chance suggestion just because I was running the Tangela. It Works, a plus, in this build too. Tangrowth does for Grass what Ho-Oh does normally- it takes Energy, and produces. Grind is usually a 100+ attack by the time I get to using it. Mind you, that is very early on. Even in late game, he serves the purpose Ho-oh does; for four energy, it does 80, but with chance on improvement. Another thing to note is that Tangrowth effectively handles both Umbreon (No pokepowers or bodies) and the Take-out Machamp (It's a Stage 1).

Tangrowth LVX: As previously said, it was given to me. While Tangela and Meganium absorb attacks, Tangrowth LVX will heal it. Lategame, it may not be as effective, but it still works. He gives Tangrowth an extra 20HP, and his attack, Big Growth, can be a late game bomb if used in desperation to power up Ho-Oh, Meganium, or a Tangrowth


Uxie: Who doesn't like Set-up? Set-up in here does something most people would probably not consider until it's done- it fills your hand with cards, increasing the odds of having both halves to LEGEND. Additionally, it does theC basic hand-filling. Might not be as good, but I'll explain why with my match-up descriptions.

Smeargle: Truthfully, I've never had an opportunity to play Smeargle. BUT, I would imagine it to be similar to how I've seen it played and know what it can do. It should be a first-turn active, much like Spirittomb AR, to absorb damage, enable Twins early, and set-up the game.

Spirittomb: Like smeargle, he absorbs attacks and helps set-up the game. The quicker Meganium is out, the better. Absorbing attacks, locking Trainers, and forcing evolution isn't necessarily a bad thing here, especially as a 1-of

Ambipom G: Ambipom originally came in as the annoying card. If it didn't Snap Attack a donk with double colorless energy, it Tail coded a very annoying game for many turns. Ambipom G also serves the attack absorbing position, but unlike the set-up that Smeargle and Spirittomb provide directly, he provides it indirectly. While being able to Tail code into most stall, he lets me set up my field while annoying and occasionally knocking out things with Snap Attack. When he gets Knocked out, someone else is ready to step up and play with his damages.

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: I found what worked best for me. I have no real tech, nothing that flares, dazzles, or does something out of the ordinary. I run a single Switch in-case I don't want my opponent switching, and Warp Points mostly for disruption purposes.

Energy: Grass Energy are VITAL. The Double Colorless I ran 4 of originally, but until Meganium or Ho-Oh or Tangrowth are online they are better suited as Grass.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
It just doesn't seem fast enough. : (

I would understand a Meganium Prime pairing if you had Blissey Prime in it.

It's an interesting idea, but I feel that Ho-Oh is merely a tech while Meganium Prime and or Tangrowth LV.X are the main attackers. I'd say either take out 2-2 Ho-Oh or take out Tangrowth LV.X, and add in a 1-1 or 2-2 line of Blissey Prime.

Take out Ambipom G. If you wanted your deck to donk, then you should've made a donk deck. Spiritomb messes with your mass of Trainers. You either run 4 for a Starter or you run none. Otherwise they are techs. Either use 4x Smeargle or 4x Spiritomb to start off with them. If you are absolutely adamant about keeping in 1x Smeargle or 1x Spiritomb, alright. Smeargle works as a tech, Spiritomb works as a stall. But take out Ambipom G!

TSS seems a bit thin. Collectors are absolutely essential to the game of Pokemon now. Since you'd be taking out 4x Tangela (1 of which would or may be replaced with a Chansey/Blissey Prime) you can add in 3x Pokemon Collector.
 
I'm really not sure on the Blissey Prime change, can you explain it to me?

Id feel wierd taking the Ho-Oh LEGEND out of a Ho-Oh LEGEND deck, you know? Not that I don't appreciate the advice, but I'm going to try and steer from those for now until it's absolutely necessary. I'd like to keep the Ho-Ohs in, but ill consider a revised list of other changes at a later time.

In -/+ form, what would you suggest? I can see easily:

- Ambipom G
- Smeargle
+ Pokemon Collector
+ Pokemon Collector


At least that is what I gather?
 
-2 Tangela CL
-1 Chikorita
-1 Spiritomb AR
+3 Smeargle

-2 Warp Point
-1 Switch
-1 Energy Exchanger
+3 Pokemon Collector

-2 Rescue Energy
+1 Double Colorless Energy
-4 Grass Energy
+4 Warp Energy
+1 - 1 Blissey Prime


I'd find room to improve your Seeker line as well. The point of Blissey Prime is moving Energy to Pokemon with 0 Damage, then dropping it to heal your High HP Meganiums, Tangrowths, and Ho-oh LEGENDs. Then you can move them back, again using Meganium. Warp Energy > Switch + Warp Point
 
I'd suggest using a combination of Warp Energy, Warp Point and Switch.

1 or 2 Warp Energy, with 2 or 1 Warp Point / Switch respectively. The Warp Energy is just in case you're going up against a Trainer Lock deck, and you can't use your Warp Points or Switches.
 
Then why use Warp Point or Switch? It's just not worth it. Warp Energies can be reused as well, with Seeker (Or Unown RETURN).
 
sceptile sf is better than maganium prime
retreat
1 vs. 2 sceptile wins
hp
110 vs. 150 ok meganium wins here
weakness
+30 vs. x2 sceptile wins
resistence
-20 vs. -20 well tie
attack
CC for first and GGCC for second vs. GGCC for first sceptile wins
scores
sceptile 4/5 meganium 2/5
well sceptile makes faster work of its opponent
 
pokemunkulys: Thank-you, I'll try to consider those ideas. I was hesitant about the Blissey, I wasn't sure if that was it or if there was something I was missing. Should I use the HS Chansey in this case? Your suggestions seem solid, I just have to adjust them based on availability now.

hikikomori-san: I agree here, a mix is better. Firstly, I only own two Warp Energy so I would have to adjust outright. Secondly, Meganium can only move Grass Energy, so while Warp Energy is a good tech, I would hate to be forced into wasting an Energy drop on a pokemon that would be healed via Blissey, losing the energy. I could try both, but I like the mix-up idea.

pokemon24/7: Sceptile is decent, but not as good. Let me show you why.

Retreat Cost: Meganium has 2, while Sceptile has 1. This is good, had the meganiums not been a main attacking component of the deck. While it's prime purpose is using Leaf Trans from the bench, it can hold it's own on the active slot. There would be very little reason to retreat, and by the time retreating becomes necessary, 2 energy shouldn't be a problem.

Hit Points: 150 beats Sceptile's 110. You stated this.

Weakness: +30 vs x2 is a fair assessment, however just not in this case. Weakness to me just means how much extra damage is dealt to OHKO something, or close the gap as much as possible. Here's a chart showing the damage amounts, and I'm sure you'll agree that Weakness is not a deciding factor here:

Damage>>Meganium>>Sceptile
10>>20>>40
20>>40>>50
30>>60>>60
40>>80>>70
50>>100>>80
60>>120>>90
70>>140>>100
80>>160>>110*
90>>180>>120
100>>200>>130

Two things to note here. At the point marked *, both would be a OHKO.Even a full-fledged Charizard can OHKO, and there aren't many Fire types that deal more than 80 being played. The second thing is that any attack that is dealt to Sceptile that doesn't kill it, would also not kill Meganium. Meaning, anything 70 or less will still require 2 consecutive hits. If you knock out a heavy hitter and they have to use their 10-20 attacker, Meganium would actually be the one taking less damage. So they are actually quite even, despite the misconception between the two weakness types.

Resistance: -20 for water on each. Again, you said this was a tie. HOWEVER, what you failed to note was the purpose of a resistance. On a Meganium, an E*Belt Gyrados can NOT OHKO Meganium Prime (4 Magikarp = 120 + 20 ebelt= 140) while that same Gyrados can OHKO a Sceptile (Which would be the same as hitting a pokemon with 130 HP). Is it Likely? No. But Gyrados is far from dead and it's certainly not impossible.

Attacks: Again- sheer number and availability shouldn't be a deciding factor. You're looking at a Stage 2 in a slow-start deck. Why would you need to use Poison Leaf when by that time you should have Solarbeam online? Slice Drain does 20 less and Heals. To me, that just closes a gap. Meganium has 40 more HP than Sceptile. That's two attacks with Slice Drain to balance the difference. Now you're looking at 120 vs 160 in total combined attacks.

The only time Sceptile makes faster work is if you are getting screwed in Energy. And honestly, in a Leaf Trans deck that runs off of having multiple Energy in play and utilizes Double Colorless, getting screwed out of energy should mean a game loss anyway.
 
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