Ronkolainen

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Something I just realized with the Grant card while re-reading it is that you don't have to discard 2 cards immediately after you use Grant, it can be any point during your turn. This creates a little bit more strategic play with the card, but nothing too huge considering marnie is still in format. Just thought I'd point it out because I had no idea the first time I read it.
I'm not sure, but I think you can take it from your discard pile at any point of your game, (if you discard 2 cards of course) not only on the same turn you play it.
 

NicoNoo

Meta/budget player
Member
I feel that people are missing the forest for the trees when saying "There's no good grass pokemon in rotation".

If you played in Welder format you would know that none of the attackers had particularly powerful effects, which also meant that once Welder rotated most fire pokemon went from "serviceable" to "wow this sucks without energy accel". Hell, the deck that won worlds was just a collection of powerful and versatile attacks + Mewthree + Welder. So I'm gonna thinker with Gardenia for the meanwhile before dismissing or calling it "broken" - though my TCG experience tells me the balance can easily flip to the latter.

However, I personally can't see Mew decks switching to Gardenia as a supporter of choice. The deck gets its blazingly fast consistency from being able to run very little energy cards, and you can already play Double Turbo for the attack on a single attachment on Mew without running headfirst into the issue of having to get to energy cards without compromising consistency, and then having space for the rest of your engine.
 

Da idiot

arceus' 1000'th arm
Member
Liligant V - I like it. Free atack on an evolving V is great for acumilating any form of value without any investment of energy. Aviously it’s not as good as something as sylveon v but it ads consistency for when going 2nd. Grade: 4/5 if we keep in mind it is an evolving mon

Liligant vstar - really feels like how reshizard was for welder. Gardenia is the good card here, liligant is just what fits the best with gardenia when looking at grass mons. But gardenia can be good without grass mons and just go in on arceus, flygon, dubwool and cramorant. Atack is an ordinary atack that ohko basic v mons.
The ability is basicly an inflated arceus vstar ability but can’t take dte. But why not just use leafeon's or shaymin's ability instead? Grade: 3/5, alright win condition but is nothing outside of tempo

Kricketune - cute but it doesnt stack though resistence Grade: 1/5 nothing for serious players
kricketot - they didn’t print with intent of being anything but a pre evolution grade:0/5

machamp v - that is gorgeous art but the design of how it plays is very poor. identical condition as its evolution creates no contast. 220 is good as arceus -dte +belt means 10 left to modiy for them. 2 energies for 130 when belted doesn´t even ohko with weaknes on arceus. Grade: 3/5 just a pre evolution

Kleavor v - a good player really can take use of that 40, especially in a pingy deck, altough it´s not at all a reason to play any card, just a good trait or moments when u already have it in active spot. hp is worse than machamp, it get's koed by arceus - dte + belt. grass weakness is blah. no matter if (G) becomes a deck now, people will randomly tech in shaymin for darkrai. second atack actually creates great contrast with its vtsar as u are hitting 150 base instead of 120, that is gonna come in handy to get something ohkoed especially as you are a pingy deck. the discard thing is something a good player always keep in mind to disrupt opponent. grade: 5/5 it is graded as a pre evolution, and very few of pre evos can aqumilate that value.

gardenia - everyone is talking about grass being back when those are not the most rewarded card; cram v, dubbwool v, bulu, flygon, arceus etc. they shouldnt have brought back welder, and it is buffed. Not needing energy to play draw supporter is game changing. Grade: 6/5 allows strats that needed one more key piece and is a better melony/welder

Grant - it is leon that fighting decks can´t even use when atacking with support mons but u will get it back to use again, kinda like it u don´t need more than 1 copy as it will come back Grade: 3.75/5 just kinda solid tech if you have his specific typing
 

Da idiot

arceus' 1000'th arm
Member
I'm not sure, but I think you can take it from your discard pile at any point of your game, (if you discard 2 cards of course) not only on the same turn you play it.
"during this turn" but it sould be an easy requirment with quick, ultra and cram existing
 

Ronkolainen

Aspiring Trainer
Member
"during this turn" but it sould be an easy requirment with quick, ultra and cram existing
But every effect says "during this turn" it doesn't necessarily mean during the same turn you use the supporter. Or maybe I'm wrong. We have to wait for official ruling for that.
 

ZDude

Aspiring Trainer
Member
That Hisuian Lilligant VMAX is so good, puting that energy back into your hand conserves it especially if you are expecting a knockout next turn. With Gardenia’s Vitality you can be powered up the entire game, you could make it on 3 energy the entire game technically
 

Scoop

Literally a sheep
Member
That lilligant V art is extremely disturbing. What the heck are they thinking? It is bad enough that they made numerous eeveelution show their behind and now this? And yet they refuse to print the full art of misty and lorelei? Interesting, very very interesting...
Y'know, I'm not a fan of people depicting anything suggestive with Pokemon, but I really feel like this is reaching...
 

VictiniKing

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Why are y'all bashing the Kricketune so much? 40 more hp is absolutely amazing for most basic V's, let alone VMAX's. That lets Zarude V from Brilliant Stars have 260 base (290 with Big Charm/310 with Cape lol) while also making its 240 damage attack completely usable. Leafeon Vstar having base 300/330 with charm is also insane. Thats not even factoring in the older Zarude V that heals 2 things to full with grass energy which gains a base 250 HP with the buff. All of that on a 1 prize level ball tutor able card. Sure it doesnt make you draw/search but it makes literally every single grass V into an average VStar's base HP at minimum. Its insane that grass now has the ability to have 310 HP basics in addition to pseudo Welder.

Also funny Dhelmise/Venusaur Vmax with 400 HP lol.
 
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MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Why are y'all bashing the Kricketune so much? 40 more hp is absolutely amazing for most basic V's, let alone VMAX's. That lets Zarude V from Brilliant Stars have 260 base (290 with Big Charm/310 with Cape lol) Leafeon Vstar having base 300/330 with charm is also insane. Thats not even factoring in the older Zarude V that heals 2 things to full with grass energy which gains a base 250 HP with the buff. All of that on a 1 prize level ball tutor able card. Sure it doesnt make you draw/search but it makes literally every single grass V into an average VStar's base HP at minimum. Its insane that grass now has the ability to have 310 HP basics in addition to pseudo Welder.

Also funny Dhelmise/Venusaur Vmax with 400 HP lol.
While the card isnt terrible, a bad habit is assuming ideal conditions when simulating how the card works. All of your points mentioned are great, but you have to take account that Kricketune takes at least 4 deck slots (2-2 line of Kriketot-Tune), maybe 6 if you want to run more, AND a bench space. Currently V Grass decks are shoehorned to running Rillaboom, except maybe Leafeon which has a cheap attack cost and a built-in ramp ability, so if you want to run that WITH Kricketune your deck will be bloated very easily. You can argue that they're fetchable by many things, but your deck can only hold 60 cards.

Evidently there has been a similar card like Kricketune, an Abomasnow that boosts Single Strike Pokemons by 50 HP, and that literally never see any play.
 

VictiniKing

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Bro a 2-2 line of a 1 prize card pokemon that lets your basic v's be unable to be 1 shot by Arceus Vstar with a Belt and no DTE is massive. Single strike is forced to run 2 evolution lines at minimum due to main attacker and houndoom which is why they can't fit it in.

Grass can legit run 2-2 Krickets, 2 Leafeon, and 2-4 Monke as a base now that Grass has freaking welder. Zarude V having the ability to both do damage and heal 2 things to full every turn for is also insane.

Like Grass Welder frees up so much space it ain't funny.
 
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MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Bro a 2-2 line of a card that lets your basic v's be unable to be 1 shot by Arceus Vstar with a Belt and no DTE is massive. Single strike is forced to run 2 evolution lines at minimum due to main attacker and houndoom which is why they can't fit it in.

Grass can legit run 2-2 Krickets, 2 Leafeon, and 4 Monke as a base now that Grass has freaking welder.
And where do you slot your other support Pokemon? Items? Supporters? Also keep in mind that even if Gardenia allowed you to draw regardless of the amount of energy in hand, Grass doesnt have any Fire Crystals, Fiery Flint, or Giant Hearth to grab those energy for them, and even if you do Gardenia only draws you 2.

Im not saying Kricketune CANT work, but it has a lot of hurdles to jump through and its been proven time and time again that being good on paper doesnt always translate to being good on a live game. I'd be glad to be proven wrong but for now I'm siding with caution.
 

VictiniKing

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Well considering that without the Kricket you instantly lose against Arceus Vstar, Lucario Vstar, and anything that can reliably hit for 220 if you are using the Brilliant Stars Zarude...which is alot I think a small line of 2-2 is kinda nessisary.

Also you bet your sweet keester that if Single Strike was all basics/didn't need Houndoom, had a Victini Vmax on a basic, and had Welder they would be running Abomasnow lol.
 
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Chickenless

Aspiring Trainer
Member
What is its trailing leg doing? Trying to work out the proportions. Actually even the front leg.

The back leg looks like it cuts off at the thigh, but if not, is it squatting? But the front leg doesn't look like it. Sorry, don't play the game so my only interest is always the art.

At least it's miles better than Kleavor, which might be one of the worst V arts in the era.
So to me, it looks like the front leg is swooping to the left and the back leg is bent. If you look carefully the back leg toes are sticking out on the left side of the front thigh. The dynamax cloud is covering up some important lines that distinguish the thigh and calf of the back leg. Machamp lunging forward and is extra swole from maxing. All that being said, they need to stop skipping leg day.
 

ZDude

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Liligant V - I like it. Free atack on an evolving V is great for acumilating any form of value without any investment of energy. Aviously it’s not as good as something as sylveon v but it ads consistency for when going 2nd. Grade: 4/5 if we keep in mind it is an evolving mon

Liligant vstar - really feels like how reshizard was for welder. Gardenia is the good card here, liligant is just what fits the best with gardenia when looking at grass mons. But gardenia can be good without grass mons and just go in on arceus, flygon, dubwool and cramorant. Atack is an ordinary atack that ohko basic v mons.
The ability is basicly an inflated arceus vstar ability but can’t take dte. But why not just use leafeon's or shaymin's ability instead? Grade: 3/5, alright win condition but is nothing outside of tempo

Kricketune - cute but it doesnt stack though resistence Grade: 1/5 nothing for serious players
kricketot - they didn’t print with intent of being anything but a pre evolution grade:0/5

machamp v - that is gorgeous art but the design of how it plays is very poor. identical condition as its evolution creates no contast. 220 is good as arceus -dte +belt means 10 left to modiy for them. 2 energies for 130 when belted doesn´t even ohko with weaknes on arceus. Grade: 3/5 just a pre evolution

Kleavor v - a good player really can take use of that 40, especially in a pingy deck, altough it´s not at all a reason to play any card, just a good trait or moments when u already have it in active spot. hp is worse than machamp, it get's koed by arceus - dte + belt. grass weakness is blah. no matter if (G) becomes a deck now, people will randomly tech in shaymin for darkrai. second atack actually creates great contrast with its vtsar as u are hitting 150 base instead of 120, that is gonna come in handy to get something ohkoed especially as you are a pingy deck. the discard thing is something a good player always keep in mind to disrupt opponent. grade: 5/5 it is graded as a pre evolution, and very few of pre evos can aqumilate that value.

gardenia - everyone is talking about grass being back when those are not the most rewarded card; cram v, dubbwool v, bulu, flygon, arceus etc. they shouldnt have brought back welder, and it is buffed. Not needing energy to play draw supporter is game changing. Grade: 6/5 allows strats that needed one more key piece and is a better melony/welder

Grant - it is leon that fighting decks can´t even use when atacking with support mons but u will get it back to use again, kinda like it u don´t need more than 1 copy as it will come back Grade: 3.75/5 just kinda solid tech if you have his specific typing
You should comment more, the only other person who does the grading system stuff is N's Ryperior and even tho I really like his it is nice to have another opinion out there
 

Da idiot

arceus' 1000'th arm
Member
You should comment more, the only other person who does the grading system stuff is N's Ryperior and even tho I really like his it is nice to have another opinion out there
I have been reading every new post here since ultra prism
but just now got myself an account
 
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