Discussion Greninja Break Against Decidueye GX

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savarin

Aspiring Trainer
Member
hello everyone,

So my title already mentions my question if greninja from breakpoint could be a decent counter against decidueye gx. I personally think that the shadow stitching attack is a very solid attack to shut down decidueye’s ability. But I'm worried that greninja would be outspeed by decidueye who can profit from FOTGP.
I’m here to hear the thoughts of other players, so what do you think?
 
To be honest, i believe greninja only beats decidueye if it draws perfectly and owl player draws really, really badly.
Fact of the matter is, weakness is huge part of this match up and only way to avoid it would be by using weakness policy, which in my opinion, might also backfire when you go up against all other decks in format, where bursting balloons and other items would be good.

The ability of decidueye against greninja is only relevant in the first few turns, when greninja has those small hp pokemon in the field. froakie - 60 hp and frogadier - 70 hp. After that ability wouldn't really be relevant, because decidueye hitting 90 1hit KO's everything greninja throws at it.

I'm not saying it's in anyway impossible for greninja to beat it but it does come to the luck of the draw in many matches :p
 
Sorry to say it, but Greninja is done - and I play a lot of Greninja so this is a little sad for me to say. The weakness to grass is too much to overcome.
 
Grininja just need to run a few Hex Maniac and they will be fine. They just need to adapt and look for another option. It isn't easy for sure but there should be answers out there though I'd like very much for the deck to be dead at this point.
 
I think it's way too early to say that the deck is done at this point. It would actually be pretty cool if both decks can exist since then we'll have playable fire (Volcanion), grass (This one), and water (Greninja) deck. While I don't think any of the decks are auto-losses against the other, it will definitely make for an interesting rock/paper/scissors advantage game.
 
I don't think the deck is done by any means, but I also don't think Decidueye is going to be the "auto loss" deck Greninja needs to worry about. I think Lurantis GX / Garb absolutely demolishes Greninja. I have seen this deck a whole heck of a lot more than Decidueye as well.

That said, it is no different than how hard Greninja owns Volcanion either. One or two auto loss match ups don't kill a deck. It just makes it far more difficult to advance to the top consistently.
 
Send me an invite on PTCGO. My Lurantis Lock deck will beat Greninja at least 9 out of 10 times. I don't have a Decidueye deck (yet) but I'll bet that deck does equally as well. And this is tough for me to say because I love playing Greninja and I'm going to miss it. Maybe it will be relevant again after rotation, but there are a number of people who think rotation will include everything up to but not including Evolutions.
 
21times said:
Send me an invite on PTCGO. My Lurantis Lock deck will beat Greninja at least 9 out of 10 times. I don't have a Decidueye deck (yet) but I'll bet that deck does equally as well. And this is tough for me to say because I love playing Greninja and I'm going to miss it. Maybe it will be relevant again after rotation, but there are a number of people who think rotation will include everything up to but not including Evolutions.
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Don't get me wrong. Decidueye is an awful match up. But you might be able to get set up fast enough to have some chance. Lurantis Garbodor is over turn 2. The reason I am saying the deck isn't dead is because not everyone will be playing those grass decks. If they do, we will see a ton of volcanion to counter. It will be a ridiculous rock paper scissors lol.
 
Decidueye GX decks will have 4 definite advantages over Greninja decks, IMO:
  • Setup speed from the Forest of Giant Plants stadium,
  • Speed to get to start dropping damage counters (so, your Froakies and/or Frogadier may not even get the chance to evolve to Greninja),
  • Pokémon Ranger (which I believe cancels the Shadow Stitching), and
  • A powered-up Decidueye GX can easily 1HKO Greninja BREAK; whereas, you'll require multiple hits to KO the first Decidueye GX.
IMO, advantage Decidueye GX, definitely.
 
Absolutely Decidueye is going to wreck it. My point is that it the deck in the new set I would be most worried about. Lurantis sets up faster, hits for weakness, and rocks a Garbodor to stop all incoming damage from the break. It even regenerates energy if greninja gets the energy off. It is an absolutely devastating deck from every angle you approach it for greninja.

There is at least a chance Decidueye doesn't get set up turn two. That chance is almost zero for Lurantis.
 
Against each other, I think it is highly favorable for Decidueye, simply because of Weakness and the potential to Knock Out Froakie that hit the field before they can evolve.

Pros of Decidueye:

- Feather Arrow can be used without discarding Energy, making it far easier to use multiple times.
- Hollow Hunt GX is a powerful attack in both the early game to recycle search cards, facilitating setup, as well as the late game, recycling recovery like Revitalizer or disruption cards like Enhanced Hammer.
- 240 HP and being able to use Feather Arrow from the Bench means it won't be getting Knocked Out easily.
- Has the potential to set up faster thanks to Forest of Giant Plants.
- Setting up multiple Decidueye quickly may allow you to Knock Out Trubbish before it can evolve.

Cons of Decidueye:

- Relies on other attackers; Razor Leaf works in a pinch but isn't Energy efficient.
- Can't take advantage of the healing provided by Max Potion and Rough Seas.
- Both Decidueye-GX and the EX attackers give up two Prize cards when Knocked Out.
- The hefty Pokemon line (4-4-4) will take up a lot of space.
- Loses to Volcanion, which is likely to see increased play.

Pros of Greninja:
- Pokemon give up only one Prize.
- Water Duplicates consistently brings out multiple Frogardier
- Doesn't require other attackers; Shadow Stitching and Mist Slash are effective and work well together.
- Greninja has free Retreat.
- Giant Water Shuriken hits for 60 damage a pop, totally to 120 damage if you use the Ability, Retreat to a econd Greninja BREAK and use it again, before attacking.
- Healing via Rough Seas and Max Potion makes Greninja BREAK extremely durable when it is not one-shotted.
- Consistently beats Volcanion

Cons of Greninja:
- Takes longer to set up
- Giant Water Shuriken requires you to discard a Water Energy from your hand, requiring up to three Energy per turn (counting the attack cost) to maximize damage.
- Is very susceptible to N and Delinquent late game, and more fragile overall.
- Loses to Lurantis-GX, another hyped card from Sun and Moon

I feel Greninja will still have a place in the meta because when it does set up, it completely assumes control of the game, Decidueye is a threat for sure, but it too isn't without its bad matchups, some of which Greninja can deal with favorably.
 
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