OU: Pokémon Gengar Discussion Thread

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[animate]gengar[/animate]​

I'm also shamelessly stealing Bacon's format

Gengar
Type: Ghost/Poison
Abilitiy: Levitate
Stats: 60/65/60/130/75/110

Mega Gengar
Type: Still Ghost/Poison
Ability: Shadow Tag
Stats: 60/65/80/170/95/130

Notable Moves:
Destiny Bond
Perish Song
Shadow Ball

Substitute
Protect
Will-o-Wisp
Focus Blast
Hidden Power
Thunderbolt
Sludge Bomb

Hypnosis
Sludge Wave
Disable

Pain Split
Trick lol?

Thoughts and Sets

With a Mega-evolution that boasts one of, if not the best ability in the game, as well as an incredible base 170 Special Attack stat, it's not that hard to see why Gengar is all the rage right now. Gengar also has a great movepool that allows for a lot of coverage options, which makes it even harder to deal with.

[animate]gengar[/animate]
Gengar @Gengarite
Trait: Levitate (Shadow Tag)
4 Def/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Timid nature
~Shadow Ball
~Destiny Bond
~Focus Blast
~Sludge Wave

I see this Gengar running around on ladder the most. For such a frail pokemon, Gengar does have quite a few nifty opportunities to switch in. (3 immunities, and a double resist to both Bug and Poison.) Shadow Ball is your main STAB and Focus Blast provides perfect neutral coverage (despite its atrocious accuracy.) Destiny Bond is a move that hasn't seen a lot of use in previous generations, but with Shadow Tag as an ability, it becomes a lot more useful, being able to trap and KO almost anything. Sludge Wave is a more powerful alternative to Shadow Ball, and it also nails Fairy-types for super effective damage. Thunderbolt and Hypnosis are cool alternatives too, I guess, if you're in the mood for mixing it up a little.

I'm not going to go into detail for all of Gengar's sets that carry over from Black/White, but Life Orb and Sub/Disable Gengar are still viable options in this metagame if you want to save your Mega Evo slot for something else. So, discuss Gengar here! Is it broken? How well will the non-mega sets function in this meta? Do you think a Perish Song set is viable? So far, I've found that for something we all deemed immediately broken, it's been fairly underwhelming. I'll use Shadow Ball on Rotom-W just to find out that it doesn't even 2hko, which is quite disappointing. However, Shadow Tag is still an amazing ability, and this pokemon is definitely not one to overlook.

PS: If there's some cool XY set that should be edited into the OP, somebody please tell me. I just threw this thread up quick before I went to class.
 
I need to go to the doctor's, so just a few notes for now:
Sludge Wave can also be learnt via TM.
Why Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb?
 
Don't you think that Mega Gengar could profit a lot from Substitude?
 
Sludge Wave can also be learnt via TM.
Click to expand...
Unless they changed something in Gen 6, Gengar is incompatible with the Sludge Wave TM.
I know this because of reasons.

Sometimes I hear M.Gengar just run a Shadow Tag abuse set, like Perish Song / Substitute / Protect / idk Disable?, with no attacking moves. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it's not unheard of. And on top of that, Substitute really loses a lot of power if you can't pair it with Leftovers/Black Sludge...which, in that set's case, you can't.

Nevertheless I think Gengar is the most OP out of all Mega-Evolutions and nothing shall convince me otherwise.
 
ChillBill said:
I need to go to the doctor's, so just a few notes for now:
Sludge Wave can also be learnt via TM.
Why Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb?
Click to expand...

Actually, Gengar doesn't learn Sludge Wave via TM. I tried. :(
#Greninja'd

If this is discussing Gengar as a whole. I'm currently using:

Gengar @Life Orb
252 Sp.A/252 Spe/4 Def
-Dazzling Gleam
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond

I tried my BW set (Focus Blast/Shadow Ball/Substitute/Pain Split) but it was just too fragile against Megas. Checking BW Smogon sets, I found an offensive three attack set that I'd never tried before (loved my other set too much). But, again, it was just to fragile to set up Substitute and I didn't like Protect. After switching its HP Fire to Dazzling Gleam, I decided Destiny Bond is my preferred move for taking down any counter to it after it deals as much damage as possible with its 3 attacks.

Although I still don't see M-Gengar as broken, I cant deny it has its uses later on in the game. The biggest issue I have with it (and I've stated this before), is that he can't trap anything. Even with Shadow Tag. When Gengar comes out to trap something, your opponent can switch out before Gengar gets to M-Evolve and activate its ability. I know that whenever I see a Gengar come out, I just switch into something that can take care of it. Once they M-Evolve, they leave my pokémon "trapped." Its funny really, making them switch out instead when they tried to trap me. :p

Or maybe its just my luck. I know a majority of people with disagree, but I don't feel like using my mega slot on Gengar.

Just a question here. Did Gothitelle have its HA changed? Or does it still have Shadow Tag as well?
 
It's still Shadow Tag. And due to the mechanics, it can be passed down even if male, so you aren't out of luck.
 
OK, now that I'm back, I can give my 2 cents on this... Personally, I think Mega Gengar is a malevolent beast. I don't quite understand KoN's statement, since with 170 SpA it's really difficult to counter Gengar, unless you have something that resists all of its moves. Otherwise, I don't see your point. Sure, your opponent might as well choose a very bad move on the switch-in, but technically speaking countering Gengar is very hard.
Personally, I run a Disable set with Sludge Bomb over Focus Blast because Fairy, but I've seen some Mega Gengars and I didn't like the encounter... unless their Focus Blast missed, of course.
 
ChillBill said:
OK, now that I'm back, I can give my 2 cents on this... Personally, I think Mega Gengar is a malevolent beast. I don't quite understand KoN's statement, since with 170 SpA it's really difficult to counter Gengar, unless you have something that resists all of its moves. Otherwise, I don't see your point. Sure, your opponent might as well choose a very bad move on the switch-in, but technically speaking countering Gengar is very hard.
Personally, I run a Disable set with Sludge Bomb over Focus Blast because Fairy, but I've seen some Mega Gengars and I didn't like the encounter... unless their Focus Blast missed, of course.
Click to expand...

My point pretty much followed what TPO3 said:
So far, I've found that for something we all deemed immediately broken, it's been fairly underwhelming. I'll use Shadow Ball on Rotom-W just to find out that it doesn't even 2hko, which is quite disappointing.
Click to expand...

And M-Gengar is still fragile. Any strong STAB move will put a dent in it, if not knock it out.
 
Keeper of Night said:
My point pretty much followed what TPO3 said:
So far, I've found that for something we all deemed immediately broken, it's been fairly underwhelming. I'll use Shadow Ball on Rotom-W just to find out that it doesn't even 2hko, which is quite disappointing.
Click to expand...

And M-Gengar is still fragile. Any strong STAB move will put a dent in it, if not knock it out.
Click to expand...
O...K. From that point... yeah. Mega Gengar isn't that fearsome compared to some other Megas.
 
Teal said:
Don't you think that Mega Gengar could profit a lot from Substitude?
Click to expand...

It probably could, I just haven't seen it very much which is why I only put the one set up in the OP. It do have Substitute listed in the "notable moves" section though, under TM/HM.

I've come to the conclusion that I must be playing against 252 HP Rotom over and over again. Because my own Rotom-W seems to get 2HKO'd with no problems. I wonder if SpDef Rotom is being used to counteract all the Mega Gengar/Kazam/Deoxys? Dunno.

DNA said:
sometimes I hear M.Gengar just run a Shadow Tag abuse set, like Perish Song / Substitute / Protect / idk Disable?, with no attacking moves. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it's not unheard of. And on top of that, Substitute really loses a lot of power if you can't pair it with Leftovers/Black Sludge...which, in that set's case, you can't.
Click to expand...

KG Suggested a similar set but with Hypnosis > Disable. It makes sense, since you can in theory take down anything with that combination. But Hypnosis has to hit, and they have to not have a 2-turn sleep.
 
Mega Gengar is a broken piece of crap not for itself, but its ability to remove anything for a Pokemon waiting on the wing (ex: remove Blissey so my special attackers can then go on a rampage). The set in the OP is not how you go about using Mega Gengar; the set below is, as it guarantees the removal of any Pokemon that cannot dish out more than 75% to Gengar / has no priority / Ghost-types. Furthermore, Destiny Bond makes Gengar a one-time deal, plus it can be the same thing if the opposing Pokemon chooses to just stall out until you attack instead by using status moves. Perish Song gives you the chance to still come in later in the game as death fodder or revenge killer.

Mega Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Perish Song
- Substitute

Tank the first hit and use Perish Song, use Substitute next turn, Protect the turn after that, and follow it up with a switch to another Pokemon as the counter hits zero. Don't go around trapping random crap like I see most people doing. Target walls and bulky Pokemon who are obstacles for your sweepers. Provided you do this, your sweeper should be able to wreck shit most of the time. Remember, it's not the actual Shadow Tag user that's broken. It's the Pokemon behind the Shadow Tag. Shadow Tag is a supportive ability, not some offensive force ready to 6-0 teams. Use it as such.

If having a powerful Shadow Ball is not a need, feel free to drop all the SpA EVs for HP so you can survive that first initial hit.

Disable is bad on Mega Gengar, so use normal Gengar who has the extra immunity to further play around with things as well as Black Sludge. Hypnosis, while guranteeing a kill if added to the set above, is extremely risky. In theory however, you can 6-0 an entire team with it.
 
I could see Disable / Sub / Perish Song / Shadow Ball working. If you throw up a sub against Gengar's switch-in (which is then locked by the mega evolution), you can Perish Song and then spam Substitute and Disable until the timer runs out. I'd keep Shadow Ball just 'cause it's nice to outright kill things weak to Ghost.

If offensive Mega Gengar is having trouble netting kills, I suppose Modest is a viable nature. You still hit 359 speed, which is enough for almost all of OU.

EDIT: I forget Protect is a thing, that's probably better than Disable here.
 
Breed w/Misdreavus. I think a few other things can pass it down.
 
zapper1998 said:
Is Misdreavus available in Pokémon x or y?
Click to expand...

Don't think so. Well, this does pose a problem ...

I believe it learned Sludge Wave in Gen 5 as a DW move only.

Megagar is the single best thing that could have happened to Gengar this generation. It's everything Gengar wanted and didn't need. No wonder there are so many people wanting it banned. With good reason, Chandelure lost privileges to Shadow Tag, and here they are thrust upon the deadliest Ghost-type in all of Pokémon. While it does gain a Ground-weakness, Megagar's stat boosts and incredible ability let it be even more versatile and have more switch-ins (higher defenses yo). There isn't much more I can say that hasn't been covered already, so there you go. Megagar is what we all feared and now have to deal with.

~AoH
 
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