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Expanded (future) Kyurem-GX/Garbodor

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by JumpluffTCG, May 4, 2018.

  1. JumpluffTCG Aspiring Trainer
    JumpluffTCG

    Advanced Member Member

    Hi all,

    When I first saw Kyurem GX, I immediately saw potential in it being a fantastic Pokemon to partner with Garbodor. It has a lot of similarities to Drampa, but a lot more aggressive than it which I will elaborate below.

    [​IMG]
    Attacks:
    [Fire] Shred (40): This attack's damage isn't affected by any effects on your opponent's Active Pokémon.
    [Fire][Water][Colorless] Enraged Blade (80+): If this Pokémon has any damage counters on it, this attack does 80 more damage.
    [Fire][Fire][Water][Colorless] Dragon Nova GX (200): Your opponent's Active Pokémon is now Burned and Paralyzed.

    What first stood out to me is Kyurem's first attack, Shred, doing a flat 40 for one energy. This doesn't seem that impressive, but in the expanded format, we have Muscle Band, which can bring that 40 up to 60 and take knock outs on Phantumps, Zoruas, Ralts, and other 60 HP basics. Overall, for one energy, it's a pretty decent early game attack, which can either score cheap knock outs or soften threats for the late game.

    The second attack, Enraged Blade, is like a reverse Berserk, +10 more damage. Berserk can be tricky to activate, requiring one to attack with Tapu Lele/Trubbish/Tauros-GX in the early game and hope for the opponent to hit into it, then retreat, or play Rainbow Energy onto something on the bench, both options taking a total of 3 turns to set up. The third option, playing either Po Town or Team Magma's, is faster but is also no longer a viable option in the Expanded metagame because Parallel City is so necessary to combat Zoroark, which would otherwise give Drampa GX a lot of trouble.

    Thus, Enraged Blade is a much faster version of Drampa's Berserk, being able to trigger either from an opponent hitting into Kyurem-GX or you activating itself with Rainbow Energy. Rainbow Energy + Double Dragon Energy will allow you to pretty easily start swinging for 160 damage as early as turn 2.

    The GX attack is also pretty useful. With a Choice Band attached, you can OHKO a fresh Wailord without Hard Charm attached, which is a pretty neat perk. Otherwise, Muscle Band + Burn damage and an auto paralysis effect allows you to be able to be reasonably sure in taking out just about anything in the game. While it doesn't provide an out to a bad hand like Drampa's Big Wheel can, it's still by no means a bad GX attack and it goes in line with Kyurem GX being a more aggressive Drampa GX.

    Finally, the new Mysterious Treasure item synergizes exceptionally well with the idea of Kyurem/Garbodor. Given the right build, Mysterious Treasure can search out anything in such an archetype and allows the deck to run very smoothly.

    Here's a sample list I've come up with:

    ##Pokémon - 15

    * 3 Kyurem-GX ???
    * 1 Oricorio GRI 56
    * 3 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
    * 4 Trubbish PLS 65
    * 2 Garbodor GRI 51
    * 2 Garbodor BKP 57

    ##Trainer Cards - 36

    * 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
    * 1 Acerola BUS 112
    * 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
    * 3 Parallel City BKT 145
    * 3 N FCO 105
    * 1 Choice Band GRI 121
    * 3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
    * 1 Colress PLS 135
    * 2 Guzma BUS 115
    * 4 Float Stone BKT 137
    * 1 Teammates PRC 160
    * 1 Brigette BKT 161
    * 2 Enhanced Hammer GRI 124
    * 4 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
    * 1 Field Blower GRI 125
    * 1 Dowsing Machine PLS 128
    * 3 Muscle Band XY 121

    ##Energy - 9

    * 4 Rainbow Energy SUM 137
    * 4 Double Dragon Energy ROS 97
    * 1 Psychic Energy

    Total Cards - 60

    Card explanations (list is an edited version of the Drampa/Garb that's been doing well at Expanded tournaments):

    3 Kyurem-GX: Most Drampa/Garb lists only run 2 Drampas. This is because you don't necessarily want to start Drampa since you want your opponent to hit into a non-Drampa Pokemon first to activate Berserk, and also because you typically don't need more than 2 Drampas in a game. Since Kyurem-GX wants to attack early with Shred and take damage to activate its second attack, you want to start Kyurem, thus there's a higher count of it than would be in its counterpart in Drampa/Garb.

    1/3 - Choice Band/Muscle Band split: I felt that the jump from 40 to 60 damage you can achieve with Shred well justified the use of more Muscle Bands than Choice Bands. Still, I felt that the Choice Band is a very good item to have to OHKO the aforementioned Wailord with the GX attack, as well as scoring KOs on 190 HP GXs. This is something that should be tested for sure.

    2 Enhanced Hammer: This is out of concern for the Zoroark matchup. Since Kyurem doesn't have Righteous Edge, I felt that it was important to have 2 Enhanced Hammers for to get rid of Double Colorless energy and help slow Zoroark and other DCE reliant decks down. Ideally, you'd use Parallel City + Garbotoxin + Enhanced Hammer + N to a smaller hand in this matchup. I've been trying to play around with Enhanced Hammer in a lot of builds right now, and I tend to like it a lot.

    1 Dowsing Machine: This one I'm a little torn on. I think Computer Search might be a better fit because of Kyurem's more aggressive nature, and you can search out DDE or Rainbow with it.

    1 Psychic energy: Don't know if it's better to have this psychic energy or a basic fire. I'm thinking you get more utility out of a psychic energy simply because going from 9/9 to 8/9 Shred compatible energy is an 11% drop, while going from 4/9 to 5/9 Trashalanche compatible energy is a 25% percent increase. Or in short, the relative increase for Trashalanche is bigger than a relative decrease in Shred.

    1 Acerola: I cut down on an Acerola but am keeping one because it's a very strong card, and it's especially versatile in a deck that runs 4 Rainbow Energy. You can do tricks like momentarily turning off Garbotoxin without Field Blowing yourself, reusing Tapu Lele, getting rid of benched liabilities, healing, or picking up energies attached to something.

    I think there's a lot going for Kyurem-GX in the Expanded metagame. Access to Muscle Band and Double Dragon Energy really help its viability, while synergizing very well with Garbodor and Mysterious Treasure. What do you all think?
     


  2. AFEX Serena is too cute!
    AFEX

    Member

    Dude I was also about to post the same type list, pretty much exact to how you run it :D Anywho, great list wouldnt change anything, anything I would change is my odd personal preference that wouldnt help, im lost for words, this is simply incredible. I would maybe throw in a 2-2 Line of Altaria for the extra damage off the get go, while your settinf up Garbodor? Then maybe Super Scoop up the Alts if your lucky? Then maybe add Battle Compressor for consistency facilitation?

    ~AFEX
     
  3. Serperior 224/500
    Serperior

    Advanced Member Member

    Really interesting idea. I think a reason why Drampa has the success it does is because of that Special Energy-discarding effect with its first attack, however. In a list that plays a ton of Rainbow and DDE, you won't be able to string many attachments together against that deck head-to-head. Against everyone else, I can see how the donking potential on Zoruas, Eggs, Night Marchers, and Ralts is very enticing.

    I'm not going to completely rule out the Altaria idea, but I think it should be one or the other (Garb). You can add a couple Altaria so you can start hitting big numbers on Zoroark, which would make the deck quite formidable if you can donk the Zorua, keep a Parallel in play, and OHKO Zoroarks.

    Just a few things to keep in mind.
     
  4. biffthepotato It's Wednesday M'dudes
    biffthepotato

    Member

    Hello. I do think that this deck could have some potential in the future, and I really like your list, except for the fact that in my opinion, 3 Tapu Lele GX is more than you really need in this deck because one of the reasons why DrampaGarb plays 3 Lele is because Tapu Lele GX is a viable attacker in Garbodor decks because they usually play DCE which you don't play in this deck, making Lele not as good. I'd personally play a Ghetsis instead because it offers some good disruption, because people usually play a lot of items in the expanded format (or at least I do). Again I do think this deck could be really good, and good luck making this better.

    Like @Serperior, I don't really think the Altaria idea is very good, because it adds unneeded clunk to the deck that doesn't even really help that much.


    -Biff The Potato
     
  5. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    Gardy still sees a good amount of play in expanded, so I would opt to play a single Latias-EX. Gardy would need Hex or Guzma every turn just to attack, and Latias is not Fairy weak, so they would more than likely evolve one of their Ralts into Gallade to Choice Band and Hex for the KO, which means less Gardy killing your Kyurem. It is counterintuitive to Garbotoxin, but it can provide some cheap autowins if your opponent doesn't have the resources to deal with it.

    I would also find room for 1-2 Kukui, and change to a 2-2 Band split. 190 is more importantg to hit than 180 because of things like Buzzwole seeing more expanded play, plus having Kukui potential to OHKO Zoroark, Lycanroc, Lucario, and Golisopod can really be important. It also might be worth dropping both hammers and maybe play a Stardust Jirachi. Combined with Parallel City and Garbotoxin, your opponent's options are completely limited. It also makes potential room for Kukui.

    And last but not least, I think Comp. Search is the superior Ace Spec here. Your strategy is to manually attach 2 Special Energy just to start taking KO's, so searching those out seems way too good to pass up, and being able to immediately search for Float Stone for Garb, Parallel your opponent, grabbing Muscle Band for that early game lead, and even chaining Team Mates into 2 cards is what I think really pushes Computer Search over Dowsing Machine to being the stronger Ace Spec.
     
  6. JumpluffTCG Aspiring Trainer
    JumpluffTCG

    Advanced Member Member

    I'm glad you like the list! Battle Compressor is definitely something to consider, since someone down below has pointed out that Tapu Lele isn't as good in this deck as Drampa Garb. Other people have really interesting suggestions as well!

    This Tapu Lele point is actually a very good point that I hadn't considered. I was too caught up with the idea of Mysterious Treasure, perhaps 2 is a better number? Would Battle Compressor be good also? I very much like the suggestion of Ghetsis and someone else suggested Kukui, in which case Battle Compressor --> VS Seeker could run smoother than Tapu Lele.

    I like Stardust Jirachi as a card, since you can remove special energies even under Quaking Punch lock. I personally like the flexibility of Hammer more, being able to remove energy and do more damage with a different attack, and Stardust Jirachi could potentially be difficult to search out without Ultra Ball, but it'll be something I'll keep in mind.

    I also quite like the Latias EX suggestion. Its definitely a very strong card with a crazy strong ability, but part of its problem was its awkward energy cost that happens to be compatible with this deck, and it's also Dragon type too. It might be counterintuitive with Garbodor (but so is Zoroark/Garbodor), but it makes sense. A really cool suggestion and I'm so happy you brought it up!

    Your case for Computer Search is convincing and I'm tending towards it being the correct choice as well. With Computer Search, the 2-2 Band split makes sense as well.

    Updated list:
    ****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

    ##Pokémon - 15

    * 1 Latias-EX PLF 112
    * 3 Latios-EX ROS 101
    * 1 Oricorio GRI 56
    * 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
    * 4 Trubbish PLS 65
    * 2 Garbodor GRI 51
    * 2 Garbodor BKP 57

    ##Trainer Cards - 36

    * 4 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
    * 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
    * 1 Acerola BUS 112
    * 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
    * 3 Parallel City BKT 145
    * 2 Enhanced Hammer GRI 124
    * 1 N NVI 101
    * 2 Choice Band GRI 121
    * 3 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
    * 1 Colress PLS 135
    * 2 Guzma BUS 115
    * 4 Float Stone BKT 137
    * 1 Teammates PRC 160
    * 1 Brigette BKT 161
    * 1 Field Blower GRI 125
    * 2 Muscle Band XY 121
    * 1 Computer Search BCR 137
    * 1 Ghetsis PLF 115
    * 1 Professor Kukui SUM 148

    ##Energy - 9

    * 4 Rainbow Energy SUM 137
    * 4 Double Dragon Energy ROS 97
    * 1 Psychic Energy CL 92

    Total Cards - 60

    ****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

    You'll see lots of one of supporters now: Ghetsis, N, Acerola, Colress, Kukui, Teammates, and Brigette. I ended up cutting a Lele but I'm currently scratching my head trying to fit Battle Compressor or two to make this a little more consistent, or whether it's even correct to have all three of Kukui, Ghetsis, and Acerola. I'm a little more inclined to cut at least one of them to boost the consistency somehow.

    Thank you all for such interesting/cool suggestions!
     
  7. Bmoore Aspiring Trainer
    Bmoore

    Advanced Member Member

    Hey!
    Cool deck Hitting 190 is a nice number and going up to 210 with a Kukui seems nice! I also think mysterious treasure is super strong in this as going off of your updated list it can target every Pokémon. Unfortunately I just can not see how this is better than Drampa Garb. The Drampa Garb vs. Straight Zoroark decks is around a 60/40 in favor of garb because of the ability lock, and utility of Drampa’s attacks. Proper use of righteous edge is key, Berserk is a big damage dealer and Big Wheel GX can save you if you are bricking. While Kyurem can hit 190 which is a better number than 180, and is arguably easier to power up, it is far more linear, and I don’t think the deck will be able to handle a constant 210 damage swing coming every turn. The deck also is incredibly special energy reliant, which seems rough considering how common enhanced hammer is right now. I do think this deck might have better matchups against other non-Zoroark decks, but at the cost of what in my opinion is a near autoloss to Straight Zoroark I’m not sure if it is worth it. I think the deck needs some more special energy denial to even compete with Zoroark. Maybe a thicker count if Enhanced Hammer,a xerosic or even a stardust Jirachi which I saw you talking about earlier.

    Good luck with the deck! Cheers!
     

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