Five Zygarde Formes, Including Zygarde Perfect Forme, Revealed in 'CoroCoro!'

MegaButterfree

Old Timer
Member
With the ideas being presented about Norse mythology, it makes me wonder if (assuming this turns out to be true), there will be a Nordic region opened above/around Kalos (like Scandinavia or perhaps Germany-equivalent since it would be closer) in the next game.

In my heart, I had really hoped that booger minion meant a new generation, but in my brain I knew it couldn't be...
 

Metalizard

Aspiring Trainer
Member
well.. it's not hard to connect Zygarde with "underworld" symbolism, what with it being a serpent hidden deep in a cave observing the world from there.
And "dog"-creatures are quite popular in such myths. Hellhounds, Cerberus, Garmr...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellhound

so even without the specific connection I was drawing, it's not THAT big of a stretch for a dog-like creature to show up in the progression from single cell to that epic monstrosity I think.

What is the Ground type in general even about in your view? What are at least somewhat distinct/unique aspects of it that it adds to a Pokemon?


Z%2Bhexagons.png

Well, when I saw the dog forme, I did thought of cerberus but cerberus is greek mythology and I didn't know about Fenrir...

When speaking about Ground-types, if we look at the Groud-types, we have, usually, they're either:
a) animals which live in the desert
b) animals which live underground
c) things actually made of dirt.

Zygarde does reside underground in a cave. But in its case, we can't just base it on that... When I ask why it is Ground-type, I'm talking more about the symbolical meaning. For example, the most accepted explanations for Dialga and Palkia's types are that diamonds are one of the hardest substances in the world, hence Dialga's steel type; and pearls are formed in the sea, hence Palkia's Water-type. So, in that context, why is Zygarde, a being capable of taking various shapes because it is made of various small organisms, a Ground-type? How does the Ground-type relate to genetics? Psychic or even Normal type seems to fit better to me...
Or is it because of the underworld association? That sounds more like Dark-type to me...
Speaking of which, Zygarde is supposed to be the order pokémon, the one that keeps balance, but the Perfect forme looks like it's going to destroy the whole world, imo. Yveltal compared to this is just a blind bird with a bad attitude...

You mean the rainbow line on its chest is actually its mouth? and what looked like a face with badass, glowing angry eyes is actually his crown?

No, I think that head with the angry glowing eyes is indeed its head... and the green hexagons right below are its mouth... the crown is surrounding the head... the head is similar to Sigilyph's head.
 
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xayshade

Aspiring Trainer
Member
When speaking about Ground-types, if we look at the Groud-types, we have, usually, they're either:
a) animals which live in the desert
b) animals which live underground
c) things actually made of dirt.

Krookodile and Stunfisk crying
 

shinysearcher

Help me find a shiny! haha :D
Member
I've waited these many hours to post my opinion of CoroCoro's reveal because I really needed it to sink in. At first, I thought that Zygarde had four-too-many forms revealed, but after reading a possible explanation in one of the comments, it really made sense to me. I just need to figure out in my mind how can a dog turn into a snake. :)

Aesthetically speaking, Perfect Zygarde is totally not my favorite Pokémon, but all of its features are really comprehensible. I think that Perfect Zygarde mostly features black because it has to deal with it being continually exposed to death, but, to balance it out (hence, it's the System Pokémon), there is life within it (Zygarde's Core). I think this is also why it sports Xerneas' blue and Yveltal's red in both its winglike protrusions and in its chest's "mouth". I would also like to mention that this mouth (or whatever that is) has Kalos' (and therefore, France's) colors, in that same order (for reference, look at Kalos' badge, or France's flag), which, in my opinion, is a nice little detail.

Lastly, I think that the next game could be called XYZ. First and most obvious reason is because the series will be called XY & Z (I would like to mention that I just noticed that the X and the Y in the logo are merged, hmmm...). Secondly, Perfect Zygarde's design makes me think that Xerneas and Yveltal have put some of their qualities in Zygarde for it to be perfect.

These are my two cents :D
 

Metalizard

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Krookodile and Stunfisk crying

Some crocodiles live in the desert...

But, indeed, I forgot about the fishes and amphibians...
d) animals (fishes/amphiabians usually) that live in muddy places/rivers...
Also, I'm stating this is what we can observe in general, I'm not stating rules...
 

The Poke Tactics

Just a Pokemon fan.
Member
I knew it! It's Zygarde,the Order Pokemon, and the green minion blob,which I don't konw the name was also Zygarde. I didn't expect that this Aura Breaker has many forms. Unlike Deoxys, this Dragon-Ground type one is on a metamorphosis stage of changing forms,and the "final form" of it was so EPIC.

did the Pokemon.com knows about this?
 
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Tails19950

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The only thing here that disappoints me is Perfect Zygarde's height. I thought it was going to be the new largest Pokemon! Bigger than Wailord like 60 feet or something. But nope, it's only 14'7"... That's shorter than the 50% forme! :(
 

StarlightSearcher

The Blonde Brainiac
Forum Mod
Advanced Member
Member
Lastly, I think that the next game could be called XYZ. First and most obvious reason is because the series will be called XY & Z (I would like to mention that I just noticed that the X and the Y in the logo are merged, hmmm...). Secondly, Perfect Zygarde's design makes me think that Xerneas and Yveltal have put some of their qualities in Zygarde for it to be perfect.

These are my two cents :D

What I think about how Zygarde would attain it's 100%/Perfect form is found within its Pokedex entry in which it monitors the ecosystem from its den. Probably in the eventual X/Y sequel; Team Flare (or perhaps a new villainous team) will do something to fiddle with the environment of Kalos. Like using Xerenas to create an overabundance of life or use Yvetal to kill a lot of the environment; but now that I've said it, it just sounds too similar to the plans of Team Aqua/Magma, just altered slightly.
 

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
When speaking about Ground-types, if we look at the Groud-types, we have, usually, they're either:
a) animals which live in the desert
b) animals which live underground
c) things actually made of dirt.

Zygarde does reside underground in a cave. But in its case, we can't just base it on that... When I ask why it is Ground-type, I'm talking more about the symbolical meaning. For example, the most accepted explanations for Dialga and Palkia's types are that diamonds are one of the hardest substances in the world, hence Dialga's steel type; and pearls are formed in the sea, hence Palkia's Water-type. So, in that context, why is Zygarde, a being capable of taking various shapes because it is made of various small organisms, a Ground-type? How does the Ground-type relate to genetics? Psychic or even Normal type seems to fit better to me...
Or is it because of the underworld association? That sounds more like Dark-type to me...
Speaking of which, Zygarde is supposed to be the order pokémon, the one that keeps balance, but the Perfect forme looks like it's going to destroy the whole world, imo. Yveltal compared to this is just a blind bird with a bad attitude...

(this is actually something I've been intending to overanalyze some time, figuring as specifically as possible what each type is about and what is just an extra flavor that is shared with other types etc. and I find that Ground is one of those that's harder to pin down to something specific)

I'd change "b" to "making use of the ground", like digging (Diggersby, Trapinch, Sandshrew, Drilbur, Diglett, Onix, Nincada..)
as it goes from "lives where" to what the actual concept is about, a somewhat solid floor beneath your feet (it also takes over pretty much all the desert pokes, which is also a good thing due to the deserts harboring quite a diverse type spectrum from Grass, Fire, Psychic and of course Rock types.)

but it feels there is still something crucial lacking when you look at a list of Ground types that's hard to describe.
I'm talking about Rhyhorn, Donphan.. Stunfisk even. ...they're just generally very tied to the ground? or at least moreso than non-Ground pokes. Constant contact with noteworthy bodyparts?
Either way, my point being, I see Zygarde as fitting for a Ground type as them and Nidoking, Mamoswine etc.
I mean, I don't see it doing sommersaults (apart from the 10% forme now I guess XD), it just snakes along the floor elegantly the whole time.

As for the conceptual connection. One thing is, Zygarde is about protecting the environment from imbalance. But also the underworld association as you say. Underworld can imply underground just as well as it might imply something more mean-spirited IMO.

But at some point, you could just as well go "How is Suicune a Water type?", sure it has a stereotypical blue colour slapped on its body, but that's not a reliable dstinction. It having associations with wind, the aurora borealis, and learning a lot of wind-based and just as many Ice-type moves as Water moves doesn't make it better. It's just a random example of the fact that sometimes a Pokemon is a certain type because whoever created it saw that as its element. Meaning being a certain type is the reason why it's good at it. It can go both ways, design aspects/behavior ---> appropriate type, a type ----> appropriate design aspects/behavior.

EDIT:

I forgot an important point here.

When it's about groups of legendaries, like trios and mascots, their types are often of equal importance between them.

So for example here we have Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde.
Xerneas and Yveltal themselves are intended to be perfect counterparts.
So their main types reflect that: Fairy VS Dark.
But Yveltal has Flying attached, for the simple mundane and undeniably obvious reason: it just happens to fly.

So in THIS CONTEXT, Zygarde being Dragon/Ground, I don't think the Ground type is supposed to be of some very deep and elemental importance, but is rather just the obvious addition to it's main type, in order for the three of them to be from separate realms.
Yveltal the Dark type - Sky ----> /Flying
Xerneas the Fairy type - Surface ----> /nothing
Zygarde the Dragon type - Underground ----> /Ground

lNSStfg.png


It differs between legendary groups of course, so you cannot contemplate them in the same manner as when looking at the Unova Dragons. Those for example share the fact that they're primary Dragons, with their distinctive feature being what element they represent in addtion to that.
 
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professorlight

Ice Queen
Member
(this is actually something I've been intending to overanalyze some time, figuring as specifically as possible what each type is about and what is just an extra flavor that is shared with other types etc. and I find that Ground is one of those that's harder to pin down to something specific)

I'd change "b" to "making use of the ground", like digging (Diggersby, Trapinch, Sandshrew, Drilbur, Diglett, Onix, Nincada..)
as it goes from "lives where" to what the actual concept is about, a somewhat solid floor beneath your feet (it also takes over pretty much all the desert pokes, which is also a good thing due to the deserts harboring quite a diverse type spectrum from Grass, Fire, Psychic and of course Rock types.)

but it feels there is still something crucial lacking when you look at a list of Ground types that's hard to describe.
I'm talking about Rhyhorn, Donphan.. Stunfisk even. ...they're just generally very tied to the ground? or at least moreso than non-Ground pokes. Constant contact with noteworthy bodyparts?
Either way, my point being, I see Zygarde as fitting for a Ground type as them and Nidoking, Mamoswine etc.
I mean, I don't see it doing sommersaults (apart from the 10% forme now I guess XD), it just snakes along the floor elegantly the whole time.

As for the conceptual connection. One thing is, Zygarde is about protecting the environment from imbalance. But also the underworld association as you say. Underworld can imply underground just as well as it might imply something more mean-spirited IMO.

But at some point, you could just as well go "How is Suicune a Water type?", sure it has a stereotypical blue colour slapped on its body, but that's not a reliable dstinction. It having associations with wind, the aurora borealis, and learning a lot of wind-based and just as many Ice-type moves as Water moves doesn't make it better. It's just a random example of the fact that sometimes a Pokemon is a certain type because whoever created it saw that as its element. Meaning being a certain type is the reason why it's good at it. It can go both ways, design aspects/behavior ---> appropriate type, a type ----> appropriate design aspects/behavior.

EDIT:

I forgot an important point here.

When it's about groups of legendaries, like trios and mascots, their types are often of equal importance between them.

So for example here we have Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde.
Xerneas and Yveltal themselves are intended to be perfect counterparts.
So their main types reflect that: Fairy VS Dark.
But Yveltal has Flying attached, for the simple mundane and undeniably obvious reason: it just happens to fly.

So in THIS CONTEXT, Zygarde being Dragon/Ground, I don't think the Ground type is supposed to be of some very deep and elemental importance, but is rather just the obvious addition to it's main type, in order for the three of them to be from separate realms.
Yveltal the Dark type - Sky ----> /Flying
Xerneas the Fairy type - Surface ----> /nothing
Zygarde the Dragon type - Underground ----> /Ground

It differs between legendary groups of course, so you cannot contemplate them in the same manner as when looking at the Unova Dragons. Those for example share the fact that they're primary Dragons, with their distinctive feature being what element they represent in addtion to that.

I tend to see the types of rhydon, onix and golem as gamefreak's early attempts to understand their own design criteria for typing pokemon; back then, the idea of a "rock" pokemon seemed to be strongly linked to the ground itself (or fossils, which were always a special case), and they saw later how they could separate both (sudowoodo doesn't seem like it would admit a ground type, after all, but they couldn't make it grass, since it would go against its "fake tree" thing). Essentially, "ground" admitted concepts rock didn't, but "rock" didn't have that freedom.

Besides, they still don't like using the rock type alone; only a small portion of rock types don't have a secondary, or primary, type.
 

Scoop

Literally a sheep
Member
Finally, Zygarde's getting some love. And frankly, this is beautiful.
Its all perfect.

It's like being in love all over again. XD
 

Mitja

veteran smartass
Member
I tend to see the types of rhydon, onix and golem as gamefreak's early attempts to understand their own design criteria for typing pokemon; back then, the idea of a "rock" pokemon seemed to be strongly linked to the ground itself (or fossils, which were always a special case), and they saw later how they could separate both (sudowoodo doesn't seem like it would admit a ground type, after all, but they couldn't make it grass, since it would go against its "fake tree" thing). Essentially, "ground" admitted concepts rock didn't, but "rock" didn't have that freedom.

Besides, they still don't like using the rock type alone; only a small portion of rock types don't have a secondary, or primary, type.

Couldn't one say the same thing about the Ice type being a second Water type in that manner?

I'll defend the position that each type is and always was intended to represent something unique and distinct. Otherwise, why even bother including them?
If they were combined a lot at initially, that doesn't mean that it's because they're practically indistinguishable, as Grass/Poison and Water/Ice are at least as numerous from the beginning. The fact that there were "exceptions" that were pure types of a type from these combinations also doesn't fit that (Ground has Sandslash and Marowak, jsut as Grass had Tangela, while neither Rock or Ice had any pure types originally), neither do the same types being used for making different combinations (Rock&Water, Grass&Psychic etc...).

So they were thinking straight IMO. (and let's not bring fossils into this, as they're a whole separate philosophical issue worth discussing and we're already far off-the topic..)

A good example might be comparing the two generic 3-stage Rock types that are basically counterparts: the Geodude-line and the Roggenrola-line.
The first has an extra Ground type, while the other one is pure Rock.
One of the differences between them is that Geodude is much more muddy/dirty, while Roggenrola is a clean dry mineral-based-creature with sharp edges.
 

professorlight

Ice Queen
Member
Couldn't one say the same thing about the Ice type being a second Water type in that manner?

I'll defend the position that each type is and always was intended to represent something unique and distinct. Otherwise, why even bother including them?
If they were combined a lot at initially, that doesn't mean that it's because they're practically indistinguishable, as Grass/Poison and Water/Ice are at least as numerous from the beginning. The fact that there were "exceptions" that were pure types of a type from these combinations also doesn't fit that (Ground has Sandslash and Marowak, jsut as Grass had Tangela, while neither Rock or Ice had any pure types originally), neither do the same types being used for making different combinations (Rock&Water, Grass&Psychic etc...).

So they were thinking straight IMO. (and let's not bring fossils into this, as they're a whole separate philosophical issue worth discussing and we're already far off-the topic..)

A good example might be comparing the two generic 3-stage Rock types that are basically counterparts: the Geodude-line and the Roggenrola-line.
The first has an extra Ground type, while the other one is pure Rock.
One of the differences between them is that Geodude is much more muddy/dirty, while Roggenrola is a clean dry mineral-based-creature with sharp edges.

Indeed I could. Even jynx (which was always an enigma, design-wise; what do ice and psychic have to do with ganguro fashion and blackface?) was part psychic; the only pure ice pokemon you could make a case for was articuno, but it had to have flying due to its brothers.

The problem is not about thinking straight; of course they were thinking straight (in fact, they were defining "thinking straight" pokemon-wise back then, which is what I was saying). But they were also starting to understand what they could and want to do, and how to do it; you shouldn't forget that the types and designs are not an end unto themselves; they were created by someone. Following an in-universe logic, yes, but also depending on factors external to it.
For example, how few rock type moves they had back then; I always loved rhydon's design, but its early movepools were abysmal; only normal-type moves (and rock slide, if you felt like using the TM) And the same for geodude; only rock throw and earthquake were at its disposal. The roggenrola line had more toys to play, and a widened sensibility to be born out of.

Both you and I have designed pokemon; if you looked at your very first designs wouldn't you want to change anything about them? wouldn't you think "what was I thinking back then?"; and perhaps more to the point, if you looked at your last designs, wouldn't you think "I would have never thought of this back when I started."? well, so would they! they were a group of artists creating separately a single catalogue of creatures, and it's understandable that not all the rules and concepts quite fell in place; as you said, most grass types were also poison, except for tangela (who was always a strange design, and I don't remember it being very popular); even bulbasaur was, and it remains, the sole dual-type first stage starter to this day; the types were always something independent, yes, but that doesn't mean the creators knew how to harness them properly; so, for that time, they felt better supporting them or making them support something else, like the flying type; I'm sure they didn't just think of pure flying types when making tornadus, but it never felt appropriate until then.
Also, don't forget that one implied goal of every design is to have this... flair, this impressiveness, that characterizes pokemon, and that's always easier to achieve with dual-typed designs; if you could just add to a pokemon a type that wouldn't affect the design or concept negatively, but would give you a lot more options when doing movepools and concept, wouldn't you do it? that's what they did often; some can be done without that help, of course, but many can gain a type without losing anything in the process or becoming illogical.
 
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don()shinobi

PokeBeach's Yu-Gi-Oh enthusiast. I guess.
Member
>"5 formes revealed in Corocoro"
>Only 4 formes are revealed
k

But on a serious note, as much as I do enjoy the fact that there is new content, really? More dumb fusion?
 

Nyora

A Cat
Member
I just figured this out on looking a diff site, and apparently, no, sadly, ash will neither use her across, Sceptile, or even charizard to mega evolve! Instead, I t looks like that is mega greninja! I think in that pic he's holding the key stone in his hand. I'm kinda sad at how it looks, doh..
 

Their Goominess

klawf
Member
I just figured this out on looking a diff site, and apparently, no, sadly, ash will neither use her across, Sceptile, or even charizard to mega evolve! Instead, I t looks like that is mega greninja! I think in that pic he's holding the key stone in his hand. I'm kinda sad at how it looks, doh..

Is the website reliable with these kinds of things? And, just saying, it might not have to be either of the three you specified that he could have as a Mega Evo. He has a Glalie which could Mega Evolve, and that's assuming none of the Pokemon he has at Oak's lab will receive Megas in the future.
Also, looking at the pic more closely, it doesn't appear that he's holding anything.
 

xayshade

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I am assuming the Greninja is a new mechanic, but to me, it looks kinda like ash in the form of a greninja. Tha's my guess anyway
 

howelllawson

Brony
Member
From a comment on Reddit:

"I would agree with you that the original consensus that 50% was based on Nidhogg. But now seeing that 10% and 100% seem to have connections to Fenrir and Hel respectively, serpent Zygarde has to be based on Jormungand based on the fact Nidhogg has nothing to do with Loki outside of being a part of Norse myth and the fact that Fenrir, Jormungand, and Hel are literally the children of Loki. With this in mind, the fact that Zygarde is literally the Pokemon embodiment of Ragnarok makes it the most metal pokemon ever."
 

edser712

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Zygard's forms actually make perfect sense of you think outside the box. It's pretty obvious Zygarde is a guardian Pokemon and we sometimes associate dogs and dragons as being guardians. Also the perfect form does look like this colossal guardian thing. The core form clearly represents how zygarde originates similarly to earths core. As for the cell form it would be safe to assume that it is how zygarde monitors every ecosystem seeing as how that can be tough for a single entity and that fits perfectly mimicking the concept that every living thing is made up of cells. Once the cells form pick up on danger the come together to form which every form is necessary to defeat their opponent the perfect form only arising during a major disaster.
 
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