First Teaser Info for S6 'Silver Lance' and 'Jet-Black Spirit!'

Dark Espeon

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Agreed. Haven't given much thought to the V, but you're right, in the event of you losing the coin flip and being forced to go second that is a good option to have.

When you go second with Shadow Rider you want to attack with Cresselia to accelerate to the bench to enable Shadow Rider Vmax to reach ohko levels faster with Max Geist. Going second and leading with Cresselia will leave you wih four energies attached at the end of your turn. If you can evolve two Shadow Rider V into Shadow Rider Vmax you can have a total of seven energies on the battlefield on your send turn which boils down to 220 damage. That should be sufficient to knock out most Pokémon V.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hi Diego Lima,



Hell Gate states:
Once during your turn you may attach a [P] energy card from your hand to 1 of your benched [P] Pokémon. If you do draw 2 cards.

In Japan the clause then is assumed to imply that you need to meet the first clause for the second one to work. Nonetheless Hell Gate is a busted version of trade. Now factor in Cresselia and Fog Crystal and the deck in essence builds itself. Seems like the Pokémon Company went with an energy bust theme for Shadow Rider.



Melody is a slightly more toned down Welder since it attaches one less energy and only works on Pokémon V which also includes Pokémon VMAX. The benefit is that it attaches from the discard pile which works real well with Ice Rider.



While the card sure is great I would not over-sell it. At the end it is a stadium card that can be replaced with another stadium card even after rotation. The card would be almost broken if we receive a Pokémon that locks in stadium cards such as the old Ninetales. Also remember that it is a passive stadium that works for you on the opponent's turn and therefore is under their control. If they cannot remove it it sure slows them down but ifit can be removed you will receive no benefit from it.



As mentioned above the card itself is decent but it is a passive stadium that only benefits you on your opponent's turn provided that the opponent does not replace it. Given how reliant Shadow Rider is an massive amounts of energy on the battlefield you could also use Traiing Court instead to remover discarded [P] energy and re-attach them with Hell Gate.


Oh, that's cool, thanks for clarifying it. Yeah, still pretty bonkers. And you're right about the stadiums, cards that can be removed before actually having an impact are indeed historically easy to deal with. We always have to be kept in check by others when we have our first knee jerk reactions to new stuff. Maybe it won't warp deck building as far as disencouraging people to play those support mons, perhaps at least it makes then play a higher count of stadiums of their own to have a way to bump it, right? I'm sure it's bound to annoy some setups here and there, but you're right, it's probably not gonna be crippling enough to make people give up on those support mons.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
When you go second with Shadow Rider you want to attack with Cresselia to accelerate to the bench to enable Shadow Rider Vmax to reach ohko levels faster with Max Geist. Going second and leading with Cresselia will leave you wih four energies attached at the end of your turn. If you can evolve two Shadow Rider V into Shadow Rider Vmax you can have a total of seven energies on the battlefield on your send turn which boils down to 220 damage. That should be sufficient to knock out most Pokémon V.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Cresselia is almost always the superior oppening, like I said it's just a nice option to have if it comes to that, I didn't mean that you should go for it, Cresselia is obviously the way to go if you can.
 

Dark Espeon

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Oh, that's cool, thanks for clarifying it. Yeah, still pretty bonkers. And you're right about the stadiums, cards that can be removed before actually having an impact are indeed historically easy to deal with. We always have to be kept in check by others when we have our first knee jerk reactions to new stuff. Maybe it won't warp deck building as far as disencouraging people to play those support mons, perhaps at least it makes then play a higher count of stadiums of their own to have a way to bump it, right? I'm sure it's bound to annoy some setups here and there, but you're right, it's probably not gonna be crippling enough to make people give up on those support mons.

With the addition of Passimian Rapid Strike Urshifu Vmax can already reach 180 damage to two benched Pokémon with Telescopic Sight attached to him. Support Pokémon therefore already have a massive target on them but people still tend to play them for valid reasons. A similar argument can be made with regard to Victini Vmax combined with Ninetales and a possible Echoing Horn tech. Still people play support Pokémon becuse they help a lot to set up on the first two turns and still have uses later on. Support Pokémon are a massive win condition for Rapid Strike decks if they can take care of Mew in time without sacrificing speed and consistency.
 

flariados

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Seeing Shadow Rider Calyrex gives me Terminator 2 vibes. We need to set aside our differences with the old villain Eternatus and come together to take out the Calyrex 1000.
 

fleshrum

April in Kalos...
Member
I've been playing Pokemon TCG since Black and White Boundaries Crossed and it's saddens me that the thought of leaving this game from how broken and untested it is getting saddens me. This doesn't look like Pokemon TCG anymore. This looks like Magic the Gathering with how broken their cards for their Standard are.

sorry, what? neither game is broken. these are strong, but there are always ways around it and alternate formats to play.

EDIT: Reading is tech.
 
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Dark Espeon

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sorry, what? neither game is broken. these are strong, but there are always ways around it and alternate formats to play.

My hot take is that this won't actually do much as long as marnie is around, since anything you draw on attack can be N'd away, just like the old days.

Shadow Rider Vmax does not draw with an attack. It draws with the ability provided that it has a [P] in hand to accelerate to a benched [P] Pokémon.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Shadow Rider VMAX worries me. I thought that VMAXs were gonna have high HP and not that great attacks to compensate but now we're getting VMAXs with both. This thing will break the game in half. Energy acceleration + Drawing is absolutely bonkers as an ability in addition to the high HP and the attack.

I've been playing Pokemon TCG since Black and White Boundaries Crossed and it's saddens me that the thought of leaving this game from how broken and untested it is getting saddens me. This doesn't look like Pokemon TCG anymore. This looks like Magic the Gathering with how broken their cards for their Standard are.

Now? Vmaxes always had attacks ranging from "meh" to pretty amazing. Even from Sword and Shield 1, Snorlax Vmax has a pretty powerful attack, it's just that the card pool in standard doesn't support the card. Inteleon has good attacks, Dragapult has a good attack, Centiskorch, Eternatus, Alcremie, etc. Like you pointed out yourself, what makes the card bonkers is its ability, or better yet, let's say the whole package, it does look pretty good, no one is gonna be crazy and deny that. But your second paragraph just isn't true.

The game's not broken in any way. In fact, after Battle Styles dropped, it is the healthiest it's been for quite some time, the meta is diverse, dynamic and fun (this last one is subjective, the other two, are not). It is pretty obvious at this point that, no, Creatures are not a bunch of clueless idiots, even though it might seem that way from time to time, but that happens to every card game. And since you mentioned Magic, as someone who plays both, no, Pokémon hasn't even come close to the levels of stupidity Magic's R&D has, I mean, it's not even funny how much worse Magic has been in the last 2 years. Finally the sets are starting to show a downturn in powerlevel (since they make sets years in advance, it takes a while for them to correct bad trends in game design), but they made some egregious mistakes. Pokémon hasn't done anything near as bad. Pokémon doesn't have any card that is as single-handedly broken as Oko was, to use the most extreme example.

You can say that something like ADP is a problem, but it's not even close to that level of brokenness, unless you underestimate how bad Oko was, or overestimate how bad ADP is. Since we don't have anything near as problematic in the card department, we are left with a more wide and complex situation, where the game state is much more defined by the cardpool as a whole, what support for what types is available, etc. It may seem obvious at first that Vmaxes were destined to break the game even more, I mean "3 prizers with that much more health and that much stronger attacks"? Anyone who looked at that in a vacuum would bet their asses no good could ever come of those cards, right? But look at where we are now, one of the most fun standard eviroments we've had in a while. Turns out, as always, context matters too much, and we just aren't able to fully predict what will be of a given format until sets actually hit, until cards start being played. I mean, anyone looking at the spoiled Urshifus a while back could swear the game would be done, I mean, "card's broken, omgggg", and again...best format in recent times... Let's not get ahead of ourselves, let's wait for the set to drop, and judge how good or bad things turn out to be then.
 
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Mistwalker

Master of Martial Arts
Member
Man that psychic Calyrex VMAX is scary. Especially since I main RS Urshifu and Jirachi GX will be rotated out. Have a feeling though that Psychic and Fighting will be at the top of the food chain once rotation happens
 

professsorpoke

NO 3 S's is not a typo
Member
That's one Deck LMAO. That's like saying to ADP Zacian that "it's still weak to Fire right?" It's still gonna do well.
ADPZ doesn't care if it's Zacian gets knocked out in one turn if the Zacian has done what it is meant to do, which is take 3 prize cards on a support pokemon, than the deck is still fine if the Zacian gets KOed. On the other hand, we saw how Eternatus completely shut down Dragapult, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened again. I think it comes down to a 2-prize pokemon versus a 3-prize one that is also probably your only attacker.
 

blackjack61105

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I am really happy Melony doesn't work for every pokemon because turn 1 altered creation would become a lot easier. Pokemon is not that stupid.
 

Dark Espeon

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Now? Vmaxes always had attacks ranging from "meh" to pretty amazing. Even from Sword and Shield 1, Snorlax Vmax has a pretty powerful attack, it's just that the card pool in standard doesn't support the card. Inteleon has good attacks, Dragapult has a good attack, Centiskorch, Eternatus, Alcremie, etc. Like you pointed out yourself, what makes the card bonkers is its ability, or better yet, let's say the whole package, it does look pretty good, no one is gonna be crazy and deny that. But your second paragraph just isn't true.

The game's not broken in any way. In fact, after Battle Styles dropped, it is the healthiest it's been for quite some time, the meta is diverse, dynamic and fun (this last one is subjective, the other two, are not). It is pretty obvious at this point that, no, Creatures are not a bunch of clueless idiots, even though it might seem that way from time to time, but that happens to every card game. And since you mentioned Magic, as someone who plays both, no, Pokémon hasn't even come close to the levels of stupidity Magic's R&D has, I mean, it's not even funny how much worse Magic has been in the last 2 years. Finally the sets are starting to show a downturn in powerlevel (since they make sets years in advance, it takes a while for them to correct bad trends in game design), but they made some egregious mistakes. Pokémon hasn't done anything near as bad. Pokémon doesn't have any card that is as single-handedly broken as Oko was, to use the most extreme example.

You can say that something like ADP is a problem, but it's not even close to that level of brokenness, unless you underestimate how bad Oko was, or overestimate how bad ADP is. Since we don't have anything near as problematic in the card department, we are left we a more wide and complex situation, where the game state is much more defined by the cardpool as a whole, what support for what types is available, etc. It may seem obvious at first that Vmaxes were destined to break the game even more, I mean "3 prizers with that much more health and that much stronger attacks"? Anyone who looked at that in a vacuum would bet their asses no good could ever come of those cards, right? But look at where we are now, one of the most fun standard eviroments we've had in a while. Turns out, as always, context matters too much, and we just aren't able to fully predict what will be of a given format until sets actually hit, until cards start being played. I mean, anyone looking at the spoiled Urshifus a while back could swear the game would be done, I mean, "card's broken, omgggg", and again...best format in recent times... Let's not get ahead of ourselves, let's wait for the set to drop, and judge how good or bad things turn out to be then.

I agree with the above statement in general. I believe the issues some people have with Shadow Rider Vmax is that he draws and accelerates at the same time. I addition to that he is also the main attackers in a deck that is dedicated to him because his damage output is only limited by the number of energies in your deck. In other words: You only need to maximize the number of Shadow Rider Vmax and Cesselia to ahve a rather solid deck. This leaves a lot of room for consistency cards to make the deck real stable.

Shadow Rider Vmax is a force but he also has some weaknesses. The first one is that he is limited to direct damage to the active Pokémon. Similar to Single Stike Urshifu Vmax this card should have a hard time to deal with 1-prize decks especially if they are able to knock out Shadow Rider Vmax in one hit. The weakness to Darkness Pokémon can also be an issue since Eternatus Vmax is a rather stable deck that can hold its own and we also recieved some decent 1-prize Darkness attackers in the last set such as Single Strike Urshifu non-V and Seviper. You also need to take into consideration that the damage output decreases considerably once one Shadow Rider Vmax has been knocked out. The fourth weakness is that there are cards in the standard format that can take advantage of the massive amount of energies Shadow Rider Vmax needs on board. The best example here is Tapu Koko V who hits for 20+ 40 times the amount of energy the opponent has in play. Tapu Koko V himself or Tapu Koko Vmax with Memory Capsule attached thus have an easy time to return knock out Shadow Rider Vmax. I believe that these four weaknesses kind of balance this card but it still remains a force from what we can tell by the cards that have been revealed. If we pretent that either two of the above mentioned four weaknesses did not exist the card could be incredibly broken.
 
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