First Teaser Info for S6 'Silver Lance' and 'Jet-Black Spirit!'

Sabaku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
It's a shame that this Talonflame is yet another bad single prizer.

Pokemon are rarely ever good in a meta setting. Most of the Pokemon in these sets seem to be made with pre-release drafts in mind. Pack battles are always fun, if not expensive.
 

MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Its bad because the damage is too low and its nothing really special. In this era, 160 damage isnt groundbreaking now that we have 300+ HP Pokemon that do much higher damage or have good effects, like hitting the bench or ignoring other abilities. The retreating block may be nice, but since switch is a commonly used card its practically useless.
Honestly 160 damage for 2 energy on a single prizer is actually pretty decent, and it has free retreat to boot. The original guess is right; it's not good because it's a stage 2 which forces you to bring Rare Candy to try and put it out, and a stage 2 that only does damage without any sort of utility is... yeah.

It's definitely not Standard material, but for pre-constructed/theme decks or limited draft, this card is alright. I'd put it inside a Mutation Cube.
 

NicoNoo

Meta/budget player
Member
Its bad because the damage is too low and its nothing really special. In this era, 160 damage isnt groundbreaking now that we have 300+ HP Pokemon that do much higher damage or have good effects, like hitting the bench or ignoring other abilities. The retreating block may be nice, but since switch is a commonly used card its practically useless.

Tbh 160 per two attachments (a Welder play) is not bad at all... It's just that it requires significant deckspace and investment, will never hit anything for weakness, and on top of everything is a frail attacker that can't be streamed. Excadrill is decent for a single-prize Pokemon and that thing only starts hitting +180 damage past turn 4-5. Baby Rapid Strike Urshifu hits for 180 damage only with a full bench, but only requires a Rapid Strike Energy otherwise.

It's just that stage 2s are still designed like we were in the BW era while everything else was powercrept. Tag Team Pokemon go from 240-300 HP and are worth 3 prizes, while V-Max pokemon are worth 3 prizes all the same with the caveat of being evolution Pokemon, yet they have HP ranging from 300 to 340. In an ideal world, stage 2s, with the significant investment they require, would have from two thirds to three quarters said HP - bringing them to an HP range of 200-250.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
In an ideal world, stage 2s, with the significant investment they require, would have from two thirds to three quarters said HP - bringing them to an HP range of 200-250.

I don't know if "arms racing" stage 2s is the answer. With the problem Magic had 2019 forward, I even read an article on ChannelFireball where the writer proposed hypothetical bonker removal cards to match the insanity of permanents like Omnath, Locus of Creation. I didn't like the idea then and I don't think I like it now. Things have to be toned down instead of "equally insane". Maybe there can be some combination of both, say...making weaker or more investment demanding rule-box pokémon while making Rare Candy busted again, the way it used to be, allowing you to just use it turn one on a basic that was just put into play. I do think that would be too dangerous at this day and age though for it to work like that. I mean, who am I kidding, I don't wanna pretend to have the answers, game design is extremely complex and I think generally people underestimate that fact, by like...a lot. All I can say for sure is I think there's room for both things to exist and be good in different ways, the Legacy format on ptcgo is proof of that, best format I ever played, hands down. It has it all, big basics in the form of EXes, lots of powerful stage 2s with unique and game changing abilities...Plus, I think the math there feels much more spot on, I don't know how to explain exactly, but the numbers feel...elegantly intertwined. Between math adjusting items like Silver Bangle, Virbank+Laser, giving one-prizers the potential to one-shot the big basic EXes, some very select few EXes having one-shot potential themselves...Plus there are so many good techs for so many different things, V-create Victini, Mime, Spiritomb...ahh *chef's kiss*, beautiful format. The potential is there, the game can be amazing, but it's hard, unfortunately, specially when the design team has to juggle making a good game with making *a game that sells*, unfortunately many times those things go against each other...but then the topic just gets even more complex. Anyway. Yeah. lol
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
Speaking of Legacy, even if TPCI doesn't want to provide a considerable amount of support for Legacy, all it would take would be one Celebi Prime and one Tropical Beach in an otherwise Standard- or Expanded-elite trainers toolkit to see sales go through the roof and open the doors to Legacy. A toolkit with cards from Standard, Expanded AND Unlimited/Legacy would be great, but considering that until last year we didn't even have anything remotely similar to a Trainer's Toolkit, I suppose we should be thankful that the standard-only toolkit exists at all.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Speaking of Legacy, even if TPCI doesn't want to provide a considerable amount of support for Legacy, all it would take would be one Celebi Prime and one Tropical Beach in an otherwise Standard- or Expanded-elite trainers toolkit to see sales go through the roof and open the doors to Legacy. A toolkit with cards from Standard, Expanded AND Unlimited/Legacy would be great, but considering that until last year we didn't even have anything remotely similar to a Trainer's Toolkit, I suppose we should be thankful that the standard-only toolkit exists at all.

It's mind boggling how oblivious they are to the importance of having multiple formats. That's like, THE redeeming quality MtG has for instance. Standard sucks? Just choose one of the other bazillion formats available. People need options, specially amazing gems like Legacy. I have never thought of that, but that's a brilliant idea. If they did anything to actually incentivize people into the format, that would be amazing. I have to say though, even without any Beaches I still have like almost 20 decks put together for legacy. Half of it is just jank I made for fun, but there are lots of super competitive decks. Actually, in some regards Legacy is actually easier to enter than Standard or Expanded I feel like. All you need is to farm some coins and crack some HGSS era packs on the store. Once you get your Smeargle and Junk Arms, honestly, you're pretty much good to go, almost everything else is smooth sailing from there. And if it wasn't for my abysmal luck cracking Triumphant packs, I would have more than enough Celebis at this point. I have a total of 44 ultra rares between Primes, Legends, and a single Alph Litograph, only one of which is a Celebi. I even gave up on Triumphant for a while and went back to cracking Undaunted to see if I get a second Smeargle and second Vileplume. Beach is a problem though...I think they should acknowledge that it's a problem by just giving the card to people in-game.
 

MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
making weaker or more investment demanding rule-box pokémon
This is risky because it would make new cards less powerful than old cards, potentially not making people wanting to buy the new cards (because whats the point?), but I do feel like it will be necessary at some point when both Tag Team GX and V-VMax rotates out of standard one day. I just dont see Creatures willing to do it anytime soon.

while making Rare Candy busted again, the way it used to be, allowing you to just use it turn one on a basic that was just put into play.
I like the idea, but it could bring crazy side effects for the current meta. Some Stage 2s has abilities that is nuts if youre able to have it T1.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
This is risky because it would make new cards less powerful than old cards, potentially not making people wanting to buy the new cards (because whats the point?), but I do feel like it will be necessary at some point when both Tag Team GX and V-VMax rotates out of standard one day. I just dont see Creatures willing to do it anytime soon.


I like the idea, but it could bring crazy side effects for the current meta. Some Stage 2s has abilities that is nuts if youre able to have it T1.

Yeah, that's always the catch-22 with powercreep right? If you ever get to the point where things need toning down, you're bound to run into the problem of having to risk spending a whole year where only older cards are played for the most part, because the new direction in design will only be fully realized once another rotaion happens and you're left with nothing but cards sharing the same design philosophy. But it has to happen eventually if they ever get to wanting to pull that off. But I agree, I don't see it happening any time soon. Specially since, unlike what happened to Magic, the game's not broken in any way, format is diverse and people are mostly enjoying it. Magic really had to do it because F.I.R.E. was absolutely crushing the game, so they had no choice. In Pokémon it's rather almost a matter of "stylistic choice", it may not be "elegant" (subjective, but seems to be the consensus), but the game is able to function pretty well, so they're not being forced to change it any time soon.

Yeah, Turbo Candy is a bad idea, nothing good can come out of that.
 

Coolpilot

Bisharps don't know 'bout my Togekiss
Advanced Member
Member
Ooo, really like Peonia if that translation is correct - great for cubes! Most (maybe all? can't think of another off the top of my head) of those style of effects only work with face down prize cards, so having a prize-swap card that works with face up ones will be great synergy with stuff like Town Map & Here Comes Team Rocket.
 

Platinum Espresso

Falinks Fanatic
Member
Peonia could be great if you unluckily have all your crucial cards in the prizes, which I guarantee has happened to everyone at least once. Peony needs Kricketune or other support, but searching any 2 trainer cards could allow for interesting combos, like evo incense + rare candy. Just have to be aware of the drawback of having a barren hand, have a draw mon like Oricorio-GX, Zacian V and the like on your bench. Wiping your hand could also help with Mustard if you plan for the next turn.
 

MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Gardevoir is uhhh..... neat, to say the least. The ability to ramp ANY type of basic energy is great (Amazing Rare shenanigans), but I'm not sure why they limit the scry to only 2 cards because the odds of seeing a basic energy there are kinda low. They could have said 'Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and attach up to 2 basic energy' and it would be better without making it broken. The attack is really costly too, 3[P] for 150 on a stage two is rough. I guess you could combo it with Primate Wisdom but that's about it. Very nice art though!

EDIT: Okay, it's actually a mini-Intrepid Sword that doesnt end your turn. Definitely better and makes more sense that way.
 
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Constantine Palaiologos

Master of deckbuilding
Member
I like how this set really feels like UNB card quality: Most cards (at least the ones we have seen) are some degree of usable and most of them have moderate-to-good card design. Peony together with kricketune can help stage 2:s and other combo-reliant decks and Pionia can swap out prizes which has been missing sins gladion rotated. I hope the card translates to you getting to look at your prize cards, otherwise, it isn't as strong, but no matter what it will probably still see play in control decks. I mean TPCJ seems to hate control, so seeing cards helping it out is always good considering how skillful and healthy for the meta they are.
 

JakeTheGearHeart

Aspiring Trainer
Member
There's no way Peonia doesn't get immediately banned in Expanded.
Yes, I would like to put 2 Greedy Dice and Jirachi ◊ in my prize cards, thank you very much.
 

pikakong

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The last part of Gardevoir’s ability says “...add the remaining card(s) to your hand” instead of shuffling them back into the deck FYI
 

NicoNoo

Meta/budget player
Member
The "adding cards to hand" instead of shuffling into deck makes it definitely better than Trumbeak, since it's basically a draw 2/attach 1-2 for any deck with basic energy. I wonder if control decks would use this given that it's the best OPT draw tool in the game but has the ''small'' issue of being a stage 2.

Peony is fantastic, and just ensures Kricketune place as a staple post-rotation.

Peonia is... ok, I guess, if mostly limited in usage compared to Gladion. Still, you have a 50% chance of hitting that lone copy of whatever tech you run, so that helps a bit, and recovering better resources while getting rid of useless ones depending on match-up is dang useful. Prizes are a faulty mechanic, and the more tools we get to avoid getting screwed over by random prizing, the best, IMO.
 

Yaginku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The last part of Gardevoir’s ability says “...add the remaining card(s) to your hand” instead of shuffling them back into the deck FYI
Okay, that makes more sense. There are multiple Stage 1's that just add an Energy, but a Stage 2 would need to "fish" to even get the chance? At least now it's a guaratneed draw 2.
Of course Zacian V has a stronger version of this ability as a Basic, but hahaha what is balance
 

CrownAxe

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Okay, that makes more sense. There are multiple Stage 1's that just add an Energy, but a Stage 2 would need to "fish" to even get the chance? At least now it's a guaratneed draw 2.
Of course Zacian V has a stronger version of this ability as a Basic, but hahaha what is balance

Pretty disingenuous to say Intrepid Sword is the stronger ability. You are ignoring that it...

-Only ramps metal energy
-Only ramps to that specific Zacian V
-And immediately ends your turn so you can not use multiple intrepid swords or attack

In a vacuum Gardevoir has the stronger version of the ability. Its just stuck on a stage 2
 
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