First Teaser Info for S6 'Silver Lance' and 'Jet-Black Spirit!'

jamashawalker

Ikouze!
Member
Liepard V- I was excited when I read the first few lines of "When you put this pokemon in play.." Then my hopes were dashed quickly when it was just "discard tool card" We really DO NOT NEED THIS! Especially on a V. Tool scrapper/tool jammer exist and even those barely fit into decks. So far from the tools they have revealed nothing is really game changing enough to warrant adding tool scrapper into your deck. Unless you want to run a hydreigon+Liepard hit and run deck, this card will probably see no play competitive and casual.

Tauros- I LOVE THIS CARD!! If you are currently having fun with Spiritomb+Spikemuth then you are going to love this as well. With all the damage buffs from Single Strike cards this can hit high damage fast. While I'm definitely eyeing abomasnow with this, I think Cape is sufficient enough. So yeah, this is a great spiritual successor to spiritomb
 

steffenka

Miss Vaanjie
Member
Liepard???? I'm literally all for more gen 5 mons getting Ultra Rares (we get a bisharp, accelgor and stoutland EVERY FEW SETS) but....Liepard???? L i e p a r d ? ? ?
If you're all for gen 5 mons getting Ultra Rares, why are you complaining about Liepard? You want gen 5 mons, but once a gen 5 mons is revealed, you complain that it's not the right one. Maybe lower your expectations a bit to the Pokemon you expect as Ultra Rares?
I get that you're over seeing the same mons or the current card format, but it's a bit tiring constantly seeing you complain about how bad a card is, how bad the format is, and/or the choice of mon on a card.
 

don()shinobi

PokeBeach's Yu-Gi-Oh enthusiast. I guess.
Member
It's hard to provide "proof" for something that is subjective, but I can provide further explanation if you want. The main issue with that article is, it dances around the topic and pretends there are legitimate design reasons for creating "bad" cards, when in reality, the main reason for creating a massive power disparity between Commons and Rares (there were no Mythic Rares at the time of writing that article) was to increase the "gambling" feel of opening packs, sell more packs by making it harder to open viable cards, and making it easier to control Standard by having less viable cards to consider when playtesting.
Thank you for elaboration. Naturally that is the consumer-side side effect. But who's to say the points in the article can't also be truth? Not that I'm trying to imply I'm a heavy defender of the article, I don't want to imply I'm biased here. In fact, I think point #6 in the article is for certain unusual to include as it relies on assumptions, and in point #3 talking about a good chunk of players not reading about the game on the internet may very well be an incorrect statistic, as the barrier to entry of the internet has drastically lowered with single-digit-age children running around with smart phones and tablets. Just some of the points make some sense in context, specifically:

Point #2; "Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you." Just below the comment that I initially quoted was a comment that the card could ("could" being the keyword, I see it as a tech choice at best) be used in Eternatus decks as a basic mon that can discard tools and still fall into the limits of Eternatus VMax's Ability. (But what do I know, I haven't competitively played this game for like 10 years lel)
Point #3; "Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player." We see this all the time with the beginner products that have a lot of simplified cards with little or no effect, with flipping coins typically being the extent of mechanics. They were designed for people just getting into the game and for kids to play with their parents, grandparents, etc. who might not have the devotion to understand more complex mechanics. While we're not going to see Wigglytuff GX get any tops anytime soon (or ever, for that matter, let's be realistic), that's because it wasn't designed for competitive usage.
Point #7; "Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up." I'm not a historian of this game by any definition, though I do remember there being discussion of the Fairy Charm cards released in the Japanese Fairy Rise expansion. Alongside the then-newly-released Alolan Ninetales GX, this was evidently meant to offer counters to some of the decks in the game. And then they went and released 2 more Fairy Charms for UBs and Lightning mons, both of which had some meta presence. Yet to my memory (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread inaccurate information), they still didn't really do anything despite appearing to be made as a response to what was in the game. So they were dismissed as bad.

I wouldn't say that most of the article is untrue. Certainly outdated in some regards, though I still see the concepts in just keeping up with the game, and actively see it in other card games I actively play such as Yu-Gi-Oh.
 

MilesEX

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Liepard???? I'm literally all for more gen 5 mons getting Ultra Rares (we get a bisharp, accelgor and stoutland EVERY FEW SETS) but....Liepard???? L i e p a r d ? ? ?

Goodness your whining is annoying. This isn't zzzeraora's TCG, just because you don't like a particular pokemon doesn't mean others feel the same. By all means get annoyed by another Charizard, but Liepard? Very underused pokemon in the TCG.
 

Skeleton Liar

サーナ~
Member
If you're all for gen 5 mons getting Ultra Rares, why are you complaining about Liepard? You want gen 5 mons, but once a gen 5 mons is revealed, you complain that it's not the right one. Maybe lower your expectations a bit to the Pokemon you expect as Ultra Rares?
I get that you're over seeing the same mons or the current card format, but it's a bit tiring constantly seeing you complain about how bad a card is, how bad the format is, and/or the choice of mon on a card.
Exactly. And besides, when was the last time Liepard got an ultra rare? Oh, wait. NEVER.

It's baffling to see complaints about certain Galarian Pokemon that haven't gotten ultra rares yet, when they're likely to happen eventually. And then in the very next news article, complaining about a Pokemon that has never gotten an ultra rare card in what? 10 years?
 

Scoop

Literally a sheep
Member
So this time, in the adventures of what shenanigans we’ll see on the Pokebeach comment sections, we effectively have:

“They always print the same Pokémon that are popular! We never get anything unpopular as Ultra Rares!!”

*Pokemon prints an unpopular Pokémon as an ultra rare*

“Well that ones bad! It’s not one I like! This is abhorrent!”

I too, love double standards.
 

Yaginku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
@don()shinobi I'll break down all of the points for you, although I will try to be brief, because I don't want to write an entire counter-article in a comments' section. Again, the issue at hand isn't about why bad cards happen to be printed - obviously everyone can understand that the designers can screw up. It's about why TCG designers would print bad cards on purpose (which both Magic and Pokemon do).

"1) All The Cards Cannot Be Good"
MaRo describes this point as the most important, and perhaps it is, but that's solely from the perspective of the designer. It is blatantly obvious that every card's power is dependent on other cards that are legal alongside it - for instance, not much has changed in the core design of single-prize Pokemon (in fact, they're a bit stronger now), but they've been outclassed by multi-prize Pokemon. So this point might answer how a card can go bad, but not why a card goes bad - is it a designer's mistake, or deliberate choice?

"2) Different Cards Appeal to Different Players"
The premise is true, but it fallaciously implies that players excited by anything but the most competitive aspects of the game deserve worse cards. While it is true that certain designs do not have to be competitive, they can be just fun - it omits the fact that Wizards print the majority of cards that are basically for nobody. It also mentions Limited, one of the most overused excuses for printing bad cards. When players design custom Limited formats - Cubes - they do not include bad cards in them, and the results are obviously superior.

"3) Diversity of Card Powers is Key to Discovery"
This is more advanced, but generally it falls into Wizards designing their game in such a way, that makes swaths of card unplayable not because they're "bad in a vacuum", but because other, very common cards counter them immediately (so called "dies to removal" trope). This is exactly what you can see in Pokemon with Tag Team/VMAX cards - they make "regular" cards bad just by sheer mathematics of the whole power equation. Given that Magic itself has slowly climbed its way up from these oppressive designs, I see that point as not valid anymore, even in their eyes.

"4) Power Levels Are Relative"
See number 1.

"5) Diversity of Power Rewards the More Skilled Player"
True, but completely unnecessary, there is a ton of other factors that can reward the more skilled player that do not require deckbuilding to be confusing and counter-intuitive.

"6) People Like Finding “Hidden Gems”"
A card that generates excitement in people that love to try new things isn't "bad". It's dodging the question, which is about useless cards.

"7) R&D is Only Human"
Duh.
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The art on Tauros looks amazing, and it’s very interesting as a card. At the very least it’s gonna be fun to mess around with it.
 

jamashawalker

Ikouze!
Member
The art on Tauros looks amazing, and it’s very interesting as a card. At the very least it’s gonna be fun to mess around with it.

lol i'm going to be testing it tonight ASAP. If spiritomb can work so can this but hopefully better.

It's great to see random pokemon getting Vs and not just the usual legendary pokemon

Yes it is!! Despite Liepard V not being a good card, it's nice to see Pokemon TCG give love to it and acknowledge it's existence lol
 

Yaginku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Thank you for the explanation. While I can't say I agree with all of those elaborations, I do have a better understanding of where it's coming from now. Thank you for broadening me, a mere idiot, and my horizon on the subject.
I'm not sure if this was meant to be passive-aggressive, but I had no ill will towards you while writing the post - any "aggressive" tone I might have used was strictly directed at MaRo, who is used to peddling lies convenient for the company as "designer insights".
 

NicoNoo

Meta/budget player
Member
Liepard is cool. Eternatus likely has the bench space for it, and it can discard stuff like Metal Googles - in the 3 months it has remaining in format it releases -, Cape of Toughness and other problematic tools. The attack is cool too, allowing for constant re-use and even softening up a target for next turn. Can't say how viable it's gonna be in the SWSH-on format, tho. We likely need to know which tools we are getting in Chilling Reign and the September set.

Tauros always has that "rage" gimmick going on with its cards, and as far as Tauros versions go, this is possibly one of the best. Maxes out at 260 by itself, Houndoom and Single Strike Energy give it +20 damage for each copy, Powerful Colorless gives it yet another extra +20, and we have Twin Energy when it can't afford the extra attachment - though I would probably go 4-4 in a Powerful Colorless/Single Strike count. Add Cape of Toughness and it maxes out at 340 + 40 = 380. Be careful with Zigzagoon tho. Houndoom and Spikemuth place 40 damage per turn. Too bad Jynx rotates, otherwise the self-spread would be far more viable.
 

don()shinobi

PokeBeach's Yu-Gi-Oh enthusiast. I guess.
Member
I'm not sure if this was meant to be passive-aggressive, but I had no ill will towards you while writing the post - any "aggressive" tone I might have used was strictly directed at MaRo, who is used to peddling lies convenient for the company as "designer insights".
Oh! No, no, I apologize. I didn't mean to come off as passive aggressive at all. I genuinely did learn a lot from your perspective. I wasn't aware MaRo had this notoriety--even if some of that article makes some sense to me, I can definitely see the elements of "corporate talk", as working an office job has taught me.
 

The Fish

0.o
Member
It's liepard you weirdo, it's absolutely crap. You could punch the thing and it would get knocked out. You can't get mad at me for "whining" when gen 5 has SOOOOOOO many more actually good Pokemon. Bisharp? Leavanny? Jeez, Imagine if we got a Leavanny V. Or Klinklang???? Or Kyurem? You know, a legendary who hasn't gotten an ultra rare in multiple years?
Look, I'm not trying to be rude to you. I don't want to be. If you actually cared to think about what I'm saying you'd actually see I have reasons for not constantly prasing this game. I will continue to do what I do because nobody else cares to. Sorry.
Why is Liepard absolute crap? Liepard's design is slick as hell. Why would you advocate for a legendary to get a V, when those Pokemon that barely ever get recognised finally get a chance to shine? I love Kyurem, but when was the last time Lipard got anything? The poor cat hasn't had any recognition ever. Darkness Ablaze gave it LIMBER as an ability of all things, which was almost completely useless. This V is a nod that the Pokemon EXISTS and is now semi-playable. They can't do everything at once. In what world is this situation bad?
 

Scoop

Literally a sheep
Member
Why is Liepard absolute crap? Liepard's design is slick as hell. Why would you advocate for a legendary to get a V, when those Pokemon that barely ever get recognised finally get a chance to shine? I love Kyurem, but when was the last time Lipard got anything? The poor cat hasn't had any recognition ever. Darkness Ablaze gave it LIMBER as an ability of all things, which was almost completely useless. This V is a nod that the Pokemon EXISTS and is now semi-playable. They can't do everything at once. In what world is this situation bad?
Because it isn't to his standards of what is good. And anything that isn't exactly what he thinks is good is abhorrent. There's no being satisfied if you're zzzeraora.

Look, I'm not trying to be rude to you. I don't want to be. If you actually cared to think about what I'm saying you'd actually see I have reasons for not constantly prasing this game. I will continue to do what I do because nobody else cares to. Sorry.
Hypocrisy atop of hypocrisy. "I'm not trying to be rude. I don't want to be." And yet you spit venom towards anyone who even slightly points out the flaws in your arguments or tries to offer a differing opinion. But no, you're always right, we should always care about what you say despite giving us no reason to, because you're a complete jerk to literally anyone who slightly disagrees with you, right? If you don't want to be rude, then... Maybe try to stop being rude to people? Maybe explain your points rationally???

Like... What kind of weird standards even are there? Kanto Pokémon are bad. Popular Pokémon getting printed is bad. Pokémon who have been printed before are bad, even if it's been years since they were printed (Like when Zeraora V came out and you complained that they "just" printed Zeraora GX, despite that coming out in 2018. Which is also the last time a Kyurem form got an Ultra Rare, mind you). And then they print an unpopular Pokémon as an Ultra Rare, which is what so many people on Pokebeach and the Pokémon community want, but because it's not one of the Pokémon YOU think is deserving of one, then it's bad? Is anything ever good to you? Are you ever happy??? Gen 5 is my favorite, and I haven't seen some of my favorite Gen 5 Pokémon as Ultra Rares yet, but I'm not here yelling blind outrage anytime some Pokémon who isn't the exact tiny handful of something I want gets printed.

Like, there's reasons to be unhappy with the TCG. But what kind of way is it to enjoy this hobby by constantly being pissed off at everything? You're exhausting yourself and everyone around you. It's tiring watching this constant whining and moaning. If you want to create conversation and have people listen to your displeasures with the TCG, maybe just try being a bit less insufferable about it. You mentioned "nobody's going to listen to you unless you're rude," but you know what? When you're rude to everyone, everyone's going to be busy pointing out how rude you are instead of listening to your actual points.

Don't let good be the enemy of perfect, dude. You seem to be that exact kind of person who can't ever seem to acknowledge a step in the right direction.

Well, this world. What if we don't ever get one or two Galarian forms as Vs because losers like Liepard got one instead? You can't tell me you wouldn't see the problem with that. You'd have to be clinically insane
Case in point. There's plenty more spots for Pokémon to get V's. Refer to that post I made earlier, telling you why we actually have a good chance to get the Galarian forms/evolutions and VMAXs completed. God forbid they print other Pokémon every once in a while. God forbid we print a Pokémon who hasn't been given an Ultra Rare before just because one person doesn't like it. Suck it up, dude.
 
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