Discussion Evolutions Being Neglected Again

[pokedan24]

2 of the best cards in the last set, the fighting belt and max elixir, have came with a specific caveat that they only work on basic pokemon. We've seen something similar in the Black and White era with Eviolite, Prism Energy, and Skyarrow Bridge. In a format where evolutions were already outmatched by big basics, this was just another slap in the face to anyone who wanted to try to make them work. And the worst thing about it was how unnecessary it was. They could have easily made no caveats to those cards and it would still have a similar effect on the game. Most of the Pokemon using those cards would have been basics either way and that's because basics already have the huge advantage of being able to be played instantly. Along with an even bigger advantage of needing less deck space on weak evolving basics that have no chance on their own. Do they really need any more advantages?

It looks like they're down that road again. First with Empoleon in xy8, then the 2 aforementioned cards from xy9, Mew in the upcoming xy10, and a few other cards I'm sure I forgot about. They should fix this either by reprinting cards like Max Elixir to work on all pokemon, making more cards specifically benefiting stage 1 and stage 2s, or at the very least, reprint cards like muscle band that could work on all pokemon before the next rotation. I don't expect this to drastically change the format, but it should at least give non basics a fighting chance.

 

[bbninjas]

I don't really think things like Fighting Belt and Max Elixir will really damage Evolutions. Fighting Belt adds a bit of extra HP and can be discarded, so you'd generally only be running deck with high output. Max Elixir, although a nuisance, could be used for Evolutions with tools like EXP Share to better stream, although I'd imagine this would be a bit clunky.

The thing is, I do think that there is enough cards in format that could make a good Stage 2 viable. It's more exactly how one should put this deck together.

 

[pokedan24]

The format is more friendly to evolutions than last. The break mechanic is neat, cards like Maxie and Archie, and things with decent pre-stages (the bats. frogadier). And they do a better job at making less filler cards that have no chance. But the increasing number of cards with effects that only benefit basics feels like an epically failed attempt at balancing things; as if basics really need they're own cards.

 

[pokedan24]

*sigh*

Spoiler: spoiler

Volcanion-EX – Fire / Water – HP180
Basic Pokemon

Ability: Steam Up
Once during your turn (before your attack), you may discard 1 Fire Energy card from your hand. If you do, during this turn, the attacks of your Basic Fire Pokemon do 30 more damage to your opponent’s Active Pokemon.

[R}[R][C] Volcanic Heat: 130 damage. During your next turn, this Pokemon can’t attack.

When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Water (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

With Muscle Band rotating, it looks like they want to go back to big basics being the attackers and evos being bench sitters.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I feel its important to keep this in mind. SOME stage 2 Pokemon are broken and SOME EX Pokemon are broken. Not all stage 2 Pokemon are Garchomp/Greninja and not all EX Pokemon Yveltal. I feel FFB is to make those EX pokemon who cant mega compete on the same level by buffing them and while Max Elixir is better used on EX Pokemon, it still has a use for evolving basic since it can be used on them.

The issue is some cards have too much synergy with the really good cards we have access to.

 

[Otaku]

I've got to agree with @bbninjas and @crystal_pidgeot which isn't a surprise; we've discussed this before. XD

If anything the problem isn't Evolution cards being neglected, it is that while the Stages are so out of whack we ought not to have any support for them in the first place. There are more direct counters to Basic Pokémon right now; for example Jolteon-EX which released right after the two new pieces of support you cite.

The designers tried to "balance" the slow pace and extra card requirements in the EX-series of sets (which confusingly were the ones with Pokémon-ex and not Pokémon-EX). There were of course overly powerful Pokémon of all Stages during that time, but in general it was better to be an Evolution because Basics overall still seemed nerfed compared to their time being overpowered (Base Set through Neo Discovery, give or take). Then I believe they overcompensated in the DP/PL sets.

I think the rule of thumb for Pokémon design would be to have fully Evolved Pokémon (which includes non-Evolving Basic Pokémon) use approximately the same guidelines: similar HP, damage output for the Energy, etc. while removing as much of the Energy and Evolution acceleration in the game as possible, as well as dialing back draw and search effects (themselves a form of general "acceleration"). Roles in decks should also be spread out. If the designers work hard, they can screw this up, but it they don't, half the battle towards balancing out the Stages is making it so that Basics which can attack early are geared towards set up, while those meant to be main attackers need so much time to build that Evolutions have time to hit the field. Done properly and for long enough that the current crop of cards rotate out, and we can get our first turn attacks back.

The second part is improving Evolving Pokémon. Pokémon Evolution "backloads" everything, so that the highest Stage of Evolution usually has to carry the entire line, has a dramatic HP spike, etc. Beef up the lower Stages because even if they don't have as much HP in the video games, you also don't have the way the video game structures the game (regions, levels, etc.) to make the lower HP appropriate. Also make them useful so instead of being a negative to the Evolution, Evolving them is its own reward. The twice Evolving Basic should be useful for setup, the Evolving Stage 1 should probably do something (most likely a coming-into-play Ability) that makes it worth the card slot you lost that could have gone to an Item or Supporter or Special Energy.

Remember when I brought up roles? If your Big Basic attacker is only meant to be a main attacker, running just it means it sits up front doing nothing for two or three turns. Even if we take my "no damaging attacks the first few turns" thing to the extreme, you're squandering your attacks. If we allow things like Special Conditions, you're not only wasting potential setup attacks, but risking its HP. So to operate efficiently it will need to run another Basic to serve as an "opener". There are still other considerations because again, if the designers choose to use the above while (for example) keeping the kind of draw/search power we have now then the big Basics will still have an edge.

TL;DR: The big problems is the game's pacing and how underwhelming the Evolving Pokémon are, though I agree it seems unneeded to release support for Basic Pokémon when they are doing so well already.