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Standard Dream Cycle (Musharna / Slurpuff)

Maximinn

Maximinn

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I mentioned this deck idea in another thread but I'm looking for some help with the exact list.

Pokémon - 16
  • 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
  • 3 Swirlix PHF 68
  • 3 Slurpuff PHF 69
  • 4 Munna PHF 39
  • 4 Musharna PHF 40
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums - 40
  • 3 Trick Shovel
  • 2 Sacred Ash
  • 2 Ace Trainer
  • 2 Lysandre
  • 4 VS Seeker
  • 3 Crushing Hammer
  • 1 Hex Maniac
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 1 Startling Megaphone
  • 2 Team Flare Grunt
  • 1 Level Ball
  • 1 Paint Roller
  • 1 Escape Rope
  • 4 Battle Compressor
  • 1 Xerosic
  • 2 Head Ringer
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 3 Enhanced Hammer
Energy - 4
  • 4 Psychic Energy
Strategy:

The strategy is to blast through your deck as fast as humanly possible and get down to a 0 card deck while playing as much energy denial along the way as you can. Once you hit 0 cards, you use Musharna's Dream of Memories to shuffle back in the exact 3 cards that you need to disrupt your opponent during the following turn. You draw all 3 of those cards using your draw-for-turn plus 2 Slurpuff, play them, then shuffle back in. Once your opponent is sufficiently energy starved, you start cycling Trick Shovels to speed them along to a loss by deck out.

When it sets up, this deck is awesome. Playing a TFG or whatever every single turn makes it almost impossible for your opponent to power up an attacker and keep them powered up for more than 1 attack.

There are 3 main problems for this deck:

Energy accelerators - Things like Manectric EX, Landorus, or Xerneas are a problem because they bring energy onto the field faster than you can take it off. If your opponent gets more than 1 or 2 attackers set up then they'll knock out Musharnas every turn.

Set up speed - I think the draw engine could be a lot better. Ideally I'd like to hit 0 cards in a few turns but it frequently takes a lot longer. Every turn you play without a 3 card deck is a turn where you have to devote your efforts to drawing rather than disruption.

Decking yourself out - Once you get set up, you're playing on a knife edge since you always only 1 turn away from decking out. If you miss an attack for any reason, you lose. This isn't so bad if you're on the ball. I find if I can make sure I have an energy in hand and a Musharna on the bench at all times, I can't be caught out. Paralysis, Sleep and Confusion can be issues though.


What do you think? Is there potential? How can I get to my dream of a 3 card deck faster?
 
A few things:

-2 Battle Compressor
+2 Shaymin EX

If you really want to draw through your entire deck, maximum Shaymin is the way to do it. Your deck doesn't really benefit from excess discarding like decks such as Night March do. It's great to get those one of Supporters in the discard pile so that you can get them back with VS Seeker, but I think that by the time you play the second Battle Compressor, you're not going to want to throw away much else.

-1 Paint Roller
+1 Stadium

What's the point of playing Paint Roller when you can play a Stadium that does the same thing but with an extra effect that you can benefit from. Not sure which Stadium would be the most helpful. Training Center probably won't give you enough bulk to make a difference. The new Parallel City might be more what you're after. You might even want two Stadiums so that you don't have to wait a turn to counter your opponent's Stadium.

-1 Sacred Ash
+1 Head Ringer

Since you can recycle Sacred Ash, I don't think you need more than one. Worse case, you can still get Pokémon out of the discard pile with Musharna. Since Manectric can be problematic for this deck, I think this deck needs a third Head Ringer.

-1 Enhanced Hammer
+1 Crushing Hammer

Since you can get back Enhanced Hammer repeatedly if need be, you don't need to play 3, but since Crushing Hammer is a coin flip, you'd probably need to play 4 of those. I might even only play one.

I think I might try this out just for the fun of it!
 
I think you just doubled the cost of my deck :D

I don't have any more Shaymin EX or Head Ringers and I'm reluctant to spend another £50 or so on a crazy rogue deck that might never work. Do you think Acro Bike would be an decent substitute for Shaymin? I'd either add 3 Acro Bike in place of the 2 Battle Compressor and 1 Sacred Ash, or add 2 Acro Bike and 1 Jamming Net. The effect of Jamming Net wouldn't help much but it would block the spirit link which is half the point. I could also run 1 AZ to try and get a few more uses out of Shaymin.

I did toy with the idea of a Stadium instead of Paint Roller. I figured since I didn't need any stadiums I'd rather have the extra draw. I think Skyfield is the best choice here since 20 damage won't bother a Mega Evolution Pokemon when nothing else is damaging it and it'll give me space to play all the Shaymins and Slurpuff, with the possibility of discarding excess Shaymin if it gets countered.
 
I definitely think this deck could be viable if you could get down to no cards in deck a little quicker, but that's sort of the problem I'm having. I'm starting to reconsider Battle Compressor as I left it out of my initial list, but now I'm considering finding room for three. I'll post again when once I've had more time to test the list. It's difficult for me to find games against legitimate decks.
Maximinn said:
I think you just doubled the cost of my deck :D

I don't have any more Shaymin EX or Head Ringers and I'm reluctant to spend another £50 or so on a crazy rogue deck that might never work. Do you think Acro Bike would be an decent substitute for Shaymin? I'd either add 3 Acro Bike in place of the 2 Battle Compressor and 1 Sacred Ash, or add 2 Acro Bike and 1 Jamming Net. The effect of Jamming Net wouldn't help much but it would block the spirit link which is half the point. I could also run 1 AZ to try and get a few more uses out of Shaymin.
Click to expand...
My list plays Trainers' Mail instead of Acro Bike, but I could see Acro Bike since it thins your deck a bit more and the discarding random cards can be mitigated with your attack.
Maximinn said:
I did toy with the idea of a Stadium instead of Paint Roller. I figured since I didn't need any stadiums I'd rather have the extra draw. I think Skyfield is the best choice here since 20 damage won't bother a Mega Evolution Pokemon when nothing else is damaging it and it'll give me space to play all the Shaymins and Slurpuff, with the possibility of discarding excess Shaymin if it gets countered.
Click to expand...
I think you're thinking of the wrong Stadium. Training Center gives your Stage 1 and 2 Pokémon an extra 30 HP, but I've since chosen Silent Lab as my Stadium of choice, though I do fancy the idea of playing 1 Silent Lab and 1 Sky Field so that I could play down my Shaymins and then discard them with Silent Lab once I'm done. Bench Space can be a bit of a problem.
 
Another thought for a stadium is team aqua's secret base so you can lysandre something up and have it sit there for longer like a hoopa-ex
 
Mora said:
I definitely think this deck could be viable if you could get down to no cards in deck a little quicker, but that's sort of the problem I'm having. I'm starting to reconsider Battle Compressor as I left it out of my initial list, but now I'm considering finding room for three. I'll post again when once I've had more time to test the list. It's difficult for me to find games against legitimate decks.

My list plays Trainers' Mail instead of Acro Bike, but I could see Acro Bike since it thins your deck a bit more and the discarding random cards can be mitigated with your attack.

I think you're thinking of the wrong Stadium. Training Center gives your Stage 1 and 2 Pokémon an extra 30 HP, but I've since chosen Silent Lab as my Stadium of choice, though I do fancy the idea of playing 1 Silent Lab and 1 Sky Field so that I could play down my Shaymins and then discard them with Silent Lab once I'm done. Bench Space can be a bit of a problem.
Click to expand...

I am thinking of the wrong Stadium. I thought you said Faded Town rather than Parallel City. I only run 1 Stadium (Skyfield) but I might try and find room for a second. I think I'd lean more towards Training Center since the main benefit of Silent Lab is blocking Shaymins, which I don't really mind my opponent playing since it gets them closer to decking out.



RazorX_83 said:
Another thought for a stadium is team aqua's secret base so you can lysandre something up and have it sit there for longer like a hoopa-ex
Click to expand...

Having single energy retreat costs on everything except Musharna is essential. Usually the first thing people try to make me miss a Dream Cycle is to Lysandre a Slurpuff or Shaymin from the bench. That's why I need to make sure I always have an energy in hand to pay the retreat. Team Aqua's Secret Base would do much more damage to me than to my opponent.
 
So here's the list that I've been using.

Pokémon:
  • 3 Musharna
  • 4 Munna
  • 3 Slurpuff
  • 3 Swirlix
  • 4 Shaymin EX
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 2 Hex Maniac
  • 1 Ace Trainer
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 1 Team Flare Grunt
  • 1 Xerosic
  • 4 Crushing Hammer
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 4 Trick Shovel
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 3 Head Ringer
  • 3 VS Seeker
  • 2 Battle Compressor
  • 1 Enhanced Hammer
  • 1 Escape Rope
  • 1 Sacred Ash
  • 2 Silent Lab
Energy:
  • 4 Psychic Energy
About Silent Lab, I like that it shuts down their Shaymins since in theory, it can slow their decks down a bit. Even though you're trying to deck your opponents out, and them drawing cards and burning through their deck is good for you, you still have to worry about them taking prized. Slowing them down to the point where they can't get anything going gives you more control over the match. They can't get a lot of things into play quickly, meaning that the important stuff for you to discard is still in their deck.

But one of the things I love about this deck is that you don't have ridiculously bad hands that are so full of resources you can't use right away and Professor Juniper. Because when you do, you can recycle them back into that deck that same turn. I really like that aspect of the deck, because I can have the worst of luck sometimes, and even having to Sycamore away all of your remaining Sycamores and VS Seekers turn one is really not that bad.
 
You should consider Team Aqua's Secret Base. This way, you can prevent things like Manectric from retreating into the other Manectric that it accelerated Energy to. You could also consider running Hard Charm as to prevent Turbo Bolt from OHKOing you.

Another thing, what if you ran Unown? If you run Unown, you can toss two of them and the actual card you need back in the deck. So, this way, you are automatically going to draw into what you need, even if they kill Slurpuff. Plus, they're free draw when you want to draw through your deck more.

You should also definitely run Acro Bike if the object of your deck is to deck yourself out. Trainers' Mail can not only whiff, but you also end up taking out half the cards that Acro Bike does from your deck.
 
Kecleon-X said:
You should consider Team Aqua's Secret Base. This way, you can prevent things like Manectric from retreating into the other Manectric that it accelerated Energy to. You could also consider running Hard Charm as to prevent Turbo Bolt from OHKOing you.

Another thing, what if you ran Unown? If you run Unown, you can toss two of them and the actual card you need back in the deck. So, this way, you are automatically going to draw into what you need, even if they kill Slurpuff. Plus, they're free draw when you want to draw through your deck more.

You should also definitely run Acro Bike if the object of your deck is to deck yourself out. Trainers' Mail can not only whiff, but you also end up taking out half the cards that Acro Bike does from your deck.
Click to expand...

Aqua's Secret Base won't work I don't think. As I said in the previous post, the first thing people do to try and break the lock is Lysandre a Slurpuff or a Shaymin. Having a 1 energy retreat cost on everything except Musharna is essential to prevent you missing an attack.

Unown is a thought. It would give Musharna something useful to do in the pre-3card state. As it is, I usually leave a sacrificial Slurpuff active to get the extra draw until I'm ready to start cycling.
 
Could you use rainbow energy and fairy garden instead of the other stadiums you were talking about? Musharna has such low HP that the 10 HP loss won't really make a difference, and fairy garden would take care of almost all retreat problems. And it might just open up a slot for escape rope, especially because LaserBank is gone in Standard.
 
I think that Unown from Ancient Origins is a great way to thin your deck.

When you draw it, you can usually use it immediately to get another card. When you do this, you get rid of the Unown from your hand, and you get another card from the deck. Your hand size stayed the same, but your deck dropped by one card.

You can play four Unown, which can potentially lead to you thinning your deck by four cards, making it a 56 card deck.
 
Poke'Pete said:
Could you use rainbow energy and fairy garden instead of the other stadiums you were talking about? Musharna has such low HP that the 10 HP loss won't really make a difference, and fairy garden would take care of almost all retreat problems. And it might just open up a slot for escape rope, especially because LaserBank is gone in Standard.
Click to expand...

I did think of Fairy Garden but dismissed it because I would need two energy types. I'd forgotten about Rainbow Energy. I always hesitate to play Special Energy these days because I'm scared of Enhanced Hammer.


Javi Blizz said:
Would you add any card from Breakthrough to this deck?
Click to expand...

Probably Float Stone (if not playing Fairy Garden). I can't see any other trainers that would particularly benefit this deck (and I haven't checked all the Pokemon). Maybe Judge but since this deck doesn't take prizes and gives up KOs easily early game I think Ace Trainer is better. Maybe Super Rod instead of Sacred Ash for a bit more versatility.
 
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