Dragon Pokemon Return to the TCG: 'Sky Stream' & 'Towering Perfection' Revealed!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
Alright, glad to see my reading was right.
I'm guessing the actual card will make it wordier to ensure it's clear.
Something like "discard any number of basic Fire energy or any number of basic Lightning energy" rather than "discard any number of basic Fire or Lightning energy"
I almost didn't look at the Flaafy because I thought it was gonna be bad... way to go Pokemon for making me default to that lol
That seems more confusing, since it makes it sound like you have to pick one type. The current translation is how they've worded attacks like this in the past.
EDIT: Oh, they misread! It's option 1.
Also I replied because the person you replied to uses a name I use in some other places and I got thrown off lol
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I agree with you, i'm not as upset but I agree with the premise of what you're saying here. It doesn't make much sense... Unless someone else can explain how it does maybe?
Are you sure? I think it is "pick one". I cross-referenced a couple of cards:
(1) Dragon Burst Rayquaza EX (Dragons Exalted)
On this card, you must pick between either "all basic Fire" or "all basic Lightning"
The wording on the Energy in Japanese is "ほのおまたはかみなり", which matches our Rayquaza VMAX here.
Rayquaza VMAX also has a どちら, which means roughly "which (of two options)", I think.
(2) Rayquaza GX and Reshiram & Zekrom GX let you count both types of energy mentioned on the card, with ReshiRom being a very similar "discard" use case. They both use と (and) rather than または (either).
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I'm still working on fluency, so I'm cross-checking my dictionary here and there, but the signs seem to point towards it being a choice between Fire and Lightning. If you can clarify what I'm misreading, I'd appreciate the lesson.
(edited a billion times to try to make it clearer)
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I was basing on the wording of the translation. If what you're saying is correct, then the translation needs to be corrected and the card is a bit weaker than I thought because it means that the basic can't hit for 180 easily like I was thinking.
I can agree with that. Regardless of which way it is, a clearer translation would help.
Either "any combination of basic Fire and basic Lightning Energy" (for #1) or "any number of basic Fire or any number of basic Lightning" (for #2).
It's obviously not a huge deal--we won't be seeing these cards for several months--but I do know some people like to proxy and play.
By the way, sorry if I was being aggressive in my wording earlier.
Nah, you're fine. Let's switch to the more important question...
RaySheep, SheepyRay, RayFluff, FluffyRay, or RayBAAza?
Sorry to whichever editors pour over the comments for this, but while we are on the topic of Rayquaza needing a more clear translation, there are several other cards with minor, non-functional oddities. I figured I may as well point them out, though I understand if you don't feel the need to go back and edit them.
Dragonite V (Dragon Gale)
From: This attack does 20 damage to each of your Benched Pokémon.
To: This attack also does 20 damage to each of your Benched Pokémon.
Source: Donphan VIV
Flapple (Acidic Slime)
From: This attack does 50 damage times the number of your opponent's Pokémon in play with an Ability.
To: This attach does 50 damage for each of your opponent's Pokémon with an Ability.
Source:
(1) "For each" is used on Sword & Shield era cards, such as Alcremie VMAX, Alakazam V, and so on.
(2) Hoopa UNM doesn't include "in play", but perhaps that is a wording update I missed.
Appletun (Acidic Slime)
Same "times" -> "for each" change.
Zinnia
Nothing wrong, just wanted to say "in play" is correct here (to contrast from Flapple).
Source: Erika's Hospitality and Kabu.
Hydreigon (Dragon Counter)
From: "during their previous turn"
To: "during their last turn"
Source: Dhelmise V, Kangaskhan DAA
Noivern (Synchro Loud)
From: "If you and your opponent have the same number of cards in your hands"
To: "If you have the same number of cards in your hand as your opponent"
Source: All "Extrasensory" Pokémon
Drampa (Berserk)
From: "If any of your Benched Pokémon have Damage Counters on them"
To: "If your Benched Pokémon have any damage counters on them"
Source: Copperajah DAA 132
Dragonite V (Dragon Gale)
From: This attack does 20 damage to each of your Benched Pokémon.
To: This attack also does 20 damage to each of your Benched Pokémon.
Source: Donphan VIV
Flapple (Acidic Slime)
From: This attack does 50 damage times the number of your opponent's Pokémon in play with an Ability.
To: This attach does 50 damage for each of your opponent's Pokémon with an Ability.
Source:
(1) "For each" is used on Sword & Shield era cards, such as Alcremie VMAX, Alakazam V, and so on.
(2) Hoopa UNM doesn't include "in play", but perhaps that is a wording update I missed.
Appletun (Acidic Slime)
Same "times" -> "for each" change.
Zinnia
Nothing wrong, just wanted to say "in play" is correct here (to contrast from Flapple).
Source: Erika's Hospitality and Kabu.
Hydreigon (Dragon Counter)
From: "during their previous turn"
To: "during their last turn"
Source: Dhelmise V, Kangaskhan DAA
Noivern (Synchro Loud)
From: "If you and your opponent have the same number of cards in your hands"
To: "If you have the same number of cards in your hand as your opponent"
Source: All "Extrasensory" Pokémon
Drampa (Berserk)
From: "If any of your Benched Pokémon have Damage Counters on them"
To: "If your Benched Pokémon have any damage counters on them"
Source: Copperajah DAA 132
I gotta ask, as someone who just plays casually, how important to the game is weakness and resistance? Honestly it's always seemed like a bit of flavor to make the cards feel different, at least, outside Gen 2.
As someone who would like it to reflect the games better, I'd rather have more dual types and proper weakness and resistances..
It's critical. Right now it's one of the single most important ways they use to balance the game. Especially since we are, and we're going to be even more with rotation, in a Vmax format were for the most part they're just 2HKOing each other, having matchups were damage just doubles so they can be OHKOed is huge.
Although I understand the sentiment, that's never going to happen, the TCG is a completely different beast, and managing and balancing the exact type charts we have in the VGs would be impossible.
I would like to see weaknesses have a lesser role in balancing though, right now it's just "pick a consistent deck with good matchup spreads and hope to avoid the 20/80 ones that exist because of weaknesses". But I don't have a better solution myself for that. As much as weaknesses make the game swing-y and all-or-nothing at times, it ensures even exceptionally strong archetypes are kept in check precisely by having those "you pretty much lose by default because of weakness" matchups, wereas if it didn't exist, any archetype with exceptional qualities would just completely take over the game and make it stale and uninteresting.
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I have been calling it FluffyEel, completely ignoring rayquaza's existence. :^)
RayBaaza is pretty funny.
Thankies <3
I put it together at one point for a card creation contest in a discord server I use.
(I didn't win)
Which card will be better in the end? Rayquaza Vmax or Duraludon Vmax?
Everything has already been said about these cards. Flaffy and Altaria are damn good support mons, Stormy Range and Dynamotor save Lightning after rotation takes away all the SUM era toys, Raihan is a different flavor of Rosa but it helps stage 2/single prize decks the same, which I'm very glad for, Flapple can pull off very high numbers against specific kinds of decks, Noivern is the return of spread/extrasensory decks, and Duraludon/Rayquaza will likely get a place in the meta depending on how rampant bench snipe/special energy usage is.
The one thing that bothers me is the fake balance factor that surrounds the re-addition of Dragon type to the format. Dragon types are getting more and more powerful support without the weakness to balance them out, they already have Double Dragon Energy in expanded, to the point decks abusing DDE have started to become more commonplace around the format. And now these dragon cards don't even have a weakness to themselves or the removed Fairy-type. I mean, sure, you can argue that they don't hit anything for weakness either, and that they have the same borked attack costs of usual, but those issues are fake-balance at best. Borked attack costs are cheated out by any form of acceleration, and not hitting for weakness is something that most decks have to deal with at least a 50% of the time depending on the format.
These cards have very high hp, potent abilities that are as good or even better than some already in the game, and don't even have the "80-20" match-up issue where you will hit a sure-fire counter eventually. I know that kids are all for the coolness factor of dragons and the "OH MY GOD THEY DON'T HAVE WEAKNESS" nonsense adds to it, but they supposedly removed Fairy to simplify the weakness mechanic, and also to center the format around the interactions between weaknesses - them adding something that outright runs counter to that philosophy seems extremely hypocritical to me.
The one thing that bothers me is the fake balance factor that surrounds the re-addition of Dragon type to the format. Dragon types are getting more and more powerful support without the weakness to balance them out, they already have Double Dragon Energy in expanded, to the point decks abusing DDE have started to become more commonplace around the format. And now these dragon cards don't even have a weakness to themselves or the removed Fairy-type. I mean, sure, you can argue that they don't hit anything for weakness either, and that they have the same borked attack costs of usual, but those issues are fake-balance at best. Borked attack costs are cheated out by any form of acceleration, and not hitting for weakness is something that most decks have to deal with at least a 50% of the time depending on the format.
These cards have very high hp, potent abilities that are as good or even better than some already in the game, and don't even have the "80-20" match-up issue where you will hit a sure-fire counter eventually. I know that kids are all for the coolness factor of dragons and the "OH MY GOD THEY DON'T HAVE WEAKNESS" nonsense adds to it, but they supposedly removed Fairy to simplify the weakness mechanic, and also to center the format around the interactions between weaknesses - them adding something that outright runs counter to that philosophy seems extremely hypocritical to me.
Depends on if we get a new bench barrier. if we don't, then Ray will only be tier 2 at best due to RS Urshifu, unless a Rose engine can successfully be made.
YO! Not only did they bring back dragon types, they brought them with a hard rebound!
Let's have some fun diving into these!
RAYQUAZA VMAX: Soooo this is bonkers!! Giving me Ultra Necrozma + Malamar vibes, but BETTER. That ability means you may NEVER brick. The attack means you can KO almost anything for 4 energy doing 340 damage. ALSO a rapid strike pokemon! I want this card so badly but it will be super expensive with that Rayquaza tax. Tier 1 card for sure just by it's own existence.
FLAFFY: Malamar 2.0. This card is laughable because of how random it came out of no where lol no one was expecting. This immediately makes all lightning VMAX decks better. An obvious partner for Rayquaza too. Hopefully this will be a common card to pull and won't be that expensive.
DRAGONITE V: This is surprisingly easy to set up. Melony+Flaffy+Water attachment. The down side may be pretty bad considering we are heading into a spread like format format with no sign of them printing out bench protection. So unless we do get some form of bench protection....definitely going to put this on the back burner...
FLAPPLE: Evil Admonition is back and better! more abilities this time around+ it attacks for a colorless energy. Making it very splashable in alot of decks. I'm hoping we can make a single prize attacking box like Buzzgarb.
APPLETUN: I look at this one and it looks pretty good, but I doubt you will see many games where the opponent will have more than 3 energy in play. Although that may change in future metagames. Great card to keep in the back pocket depending on the meta.
Zinnia's Resolve: My kneejerk reaction was that this is just a worse erika's hospitality. Then I thought about how good it is with the discard synergy with Rayquaza VMAX and Flaffy. For those decks that play off of discard synergy without wanting to discard an entire hand, this might be pretty good. If Mad Party can make a come back after rotation this might see play in that deck.
STORMY RANGE: How do we give more support to the Rayquaza VMAX archetype!? Printing out a stadium literally designed for Rayquaza+flaffy lol. Obvious 3 of in the deck.
ALTARIA: Ok so you're a better Dragonite TEAM UP card because you're not a stage 2. Boss for game, never brick, run those weird niche 1 of supporter cards. This may either be amazing or never see play. Excellent for control style of decks.
DIALGA: Switch, escape rope, manual retreating exists. Soooo no...next (Sick artwork though)
HYDREIGON: Wow they really have a hard time making a good hydreigon card. Albeit that Darkness Ablaze Hydreigon was pretty good. But this one is just bad. You only get one good attack in with this card. So no, just NO
NOIVERN: As a spread archetype I do like this card. It can be paired with stuff like orbeetle to really spread the damage around quickly. Definitely going to need to play that stadium card that prevents all healing. I'll definitely want to experiment with this since it's pretty easy to function.
DURALUDON VMAX: This is like the weirdest Game changer card. Depending on how big special energy cards are post rotation this may either just change the game completely or thrown to the wayside as maybe a tech. I foresee being a good tech in certain rainbow deck boxes. Also I foresee some sort of Rainbow Dragon Energy in this set. It would work really well for Duraludon VMAX. Let's not also forget it gets all the Single strike support. Not as good as Rayquaza but can still leave an impact on the metagame.
DRAMPA: I appreciate them keeping the Drampa theme alive. Doing 160 for two energy is really cool but sadly we don't have a way to consistently power it up (that we know of atm) Leading to the next card that can help out though....
RAIHAN: Rosa saw alot of play in single prize attacking decks and this will see play the same way. This card is pretty amazing imo. I wanna say on the same level as Rosa just differently used. I'm excited to give this a go if they print out an actual good stage 2 pokemon. With ADP gone, Single prize attacking decks are worth exploring again.
CRYSTAL CAVE: Sadly we are in a metagame where 30 HP just isn't enough recovery. Mallow and Llana's 120 HP was barely enough. Most VMAXs are doing around 270 damage, we just aren't in that metagame where 30 HP is going to make too much of a difference. And there are about to be more damage modifiers coming up in the next set. This would have been excellent in Lucmetal.
With all these amazing dragon pokemon coming out, I'm definitely seeing a DRAGON ENERGY coming along in this set. Hopefully they reprint double Dragon Energy. Looking at all these cards, nothing is really going to be absurdly broken with Double Dragon Energy, except for maybe Dragonite and Duraludon. But reprinting that card wouldn't be the worse thing from what we are looking at.
Let's have some fun diving into these!
RAYQUAZA VMAX: Soooo this is bonkers!! Giving me Ultra Necrozma + Malamar vibes, but BETTER. That ability means you may NEVER brick. The attack means you can KO almost anything for 4 energy doing 340 damage. ALSO a rapid strike pokemon! I want this card so badly but it will be super expensive with that Rayquaza tax. Tier 1 card for sure just by it's own existence.
FLAFFY: Malamar 2.0. This card is laughable because of how random it came out of no where lol no one was expecting. This immediately makes all lightning VMAX decks better. An obvious partner for Rayquaza too. Hopefully this will be a common card to pull and won't be that expensive.
DRAGONITE V: This is surprisingly easy to set up. Melony+Flaffy+Water attachment. The down side may be pretty bad considering we are heading into a spread like format format with no sign of them printing out bench protection. So unless we do get some form of bench protection....definitely going to put this on the back burner...
FLAPPLE: Evil Admonition is back and better! more abilities this time around+ it attacks for a colorless energy. Making it very splashable in alot of decks. I'm hoping we can make a single prize attacking box like Buzzgarb.
APPLETUN: I look at this one and it looks pretty good, but I doubt you will see many games where the opponent will have more than 3 energy in play. Although that may change in future metagames. Great card to keep in the back pocket depending on the meta.
Zinnia's Resolve: My kneejerk reaction was that this is just a worse erika's hospitality. Then I thought about how good it is with the discard synergy with Rayquaza VMAX and Flaffy. For those decks that play off of discard synergy without wanting to discard an entire hand, this might be pretty good. If Mad Party can make a come back after rotation this might see play in that deck.
STORMY RANGE: How do we give more support to the Rayquaza VMAX archetype!? Printing out a stadium literally designed for Rayquaza+flaffy lol. Obvious 3 of in the deck.
ALTARIA: Ok so you're a better Dragonite TEAM UP card because you're not a stage 2. Boss for game, never brick, run those weird niche 1 of supporter cards. This may either be amazing or never see play. Excellent for control style of decks.
DIALGA: Switch, escape rope, manual retreating exists. Soooo no...next (Sick artwork though)
HYDREIGON: Wow they really have a hard time making a good hydreigon card. Albeit that Darkness Ablaze Hydreigon was pretty good. But this one is just bad. You only get one good attack in with this card. So no, just NO
NOIVERN: As a spread archetype I do like this card. It can be paired with stuff like orbeetle to really spread the damage around quickly. Definitely going to need to play that stadium card that prevents all healing. I'll definitely want to experiment with this since it's pretty easy to function.
DURALUDON VMAX: This is like the weirdest Game changer card. Depending on how big special energy cards are post rotation this may either just change the game completely or thrown to the wayside as maybe a tech. I foresee being a good tech in certain rainbow deck boxes. Also I foresee some sort of Rainbow Dragon Energy in this set. It would work really well for Duraludon VMAX. Let's not also forget it gets all the Single strike support. Not as good as Rayquaza but can still leave an impact on the metagame.
DRAMPA: I appreciate them keeping the Drampa theme alive. Doing 160 for two energy is really cool but sadly we don't have a way to consistently power it up (that we know of atm) Leading to the next card that can help out though....
RAIHAN: Rosa saw alot of play in single prize attacking decks and this will see play the same way. This card is pretty amazing imo. I wanna say on the same level as Rosa just differently used. I'm excited to give this a go if they print out an actual good stage 2 pokemon. With ADP gone, Single prize attacking decks are worth exploring again.
CRYSTAL CAVE: Sadly we are in a metagame where 30 HP just isn't enough recovery. Mallow and Llana's 120 HP was barely enough. Most VMAXs are doing around 270 damage, we just aren't in that metagame where 30 HP is going to make too much of a difference. And there are about to be more damage modifiers coming up in the next set. This would have been excellent in Lucmetal.
With all these amazing dragon pokemon coming out, I'm definitely seeing a DRAGON ENERGY coming along in this set. Hopefully they reprint double Dragon Energy. Looking at all these cards, nothing is really going to be absurdly broken with Double Dragon Energy, except for maybe Dragonite and Duraludon. But reprinting that card wouldn't be the worse thing from what we are looking at.
Its the return of the king....