Community Does the Community like Charizard as much as TPC thinks?

Discussion in 'Beachfront Hangout' started by crystal_pidgeot, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. crystal_pidgeot Bird Trainer *Vaporeon on PokeGym*
    crystal_pidgeot

    Member

    This honestly got me thinking about what makes a Pokemon loved by many. It's no secret that Pikachu is the most popular Pokemon. When something is constantly in your face, you'll build some bias for it. Its like playing your favorite mobile game which stops the play and makes you watch an ad. After watching the ad 300 times,m you finally click on it and download the game and check it out because the ads make it look fun and you want to give it a try. Pikachu is like an ad. Now, in your Pokemon games, you are forced to stop playing and do something Pikachu related. It's the mascot after all and with it being constantly being shoved down your throat, you build either some like or dislike for Pikachu. It's in the spin off game, focus of the movie and always the first mon you see in the anime when it reboots.

    Pikachu is a powerhouse Pokemon that no other franchise can seem to recreate. However, can we really say Pikachu is all that popular? Yes and no... What am I getting at? Pikachu's popularity was created. It was marketed to well. You want to buy a Pidgey plush? Too bad, here's a Pikachu instead. You can always buy a Pikachu, be it a coloring book, dolls, toys, shirts - anything you want, you can put a Pikachu on it. Even the actual Pokemon world loves Pikachu! It removed me from the game's story when I walked into an area where there were bushes shaped like Pikachu. It even spawned a Pokemon with identity issues that wants to be Pikachu so bad, it dresses like it so it can get some of the love... And it worked! Pikachu created a Pokemon species! This just make me realize that Pokemon is just out to make it money. Not a bad thing but its not treating us other Pokemon fans fairly...

    Lets take a look at another popular Pokemon, Pidgey. Its everywhere and often people first Pokemon. They are the go to bird Pokemon for a scene that needs a cute bird and provide a nostalgic look for the older Pokemon fans and to this day, still remain a fan favorite without the help of TPC. A Pidgey gets put into something and fans go "that's alright" but when it comes to Mewtwo, another popular Pokemon, the fans hate it. To put this into perspective, Pokemon X and Pokemon Y forces your very first encounter to be a Shiny-Locked Pidgey but, why a Pidgey? Why not a Pikachu or Eevee? Why not Starly or Flectchling, the Pokemon of the generation. They choose to give you a rare Pidgey instead. It's because they realize that most Pokemon fans love Pidgey. Pidgey, Pidgeotto and Pidgeot are the Pokemon people closely think about when they think about Pokemon. Just think about this. Most peoples first Pokemon isn't Charmander, Squirtlel or Bulbasaur, it was a Pidgey. Its the first Pokemon a lot of us caught. Its the first Pokemon we trained and one that helped us get around. Pidgey's popularity wasn't built. It wasn't ever designed to be a popular Pokemon. Its just a small bird and you can always get them but that Charmander you got from Oak? Did you earn it? Did you feel some kind of accomplishment from it? That Charmander was a starter deck- the thing you got for joining but the Pidgey was the booster pack, the first thing you earned and Pokemon X and Pokemon Y recreated that. That Pidgey reminded you of the first Pokemon most of us caught and was once again, the first Pokemon you caught.

    I know what you're thinking. Are you mad?! Are you really trying to say Pidgey is more popular than Pikachu?! Well... Yes and no. There is no doubt that Pikachu would have been popular without the help of TPC, but like Pidgey, what's special about Pikachu? Without its hold item, anime tie in and backing from the merchandise, what is liked about it? Both are small and cute and often seen in media. What exactly does Pikachu have that Pidgey doesn't? The answer is clear. Pikachu was designed to popular and Pidgey wasn't, yet the community prefers Pidgey. Pikachu has to be redesigned to be "cute" while Pidgey's design remained the same from day one. You remember the way Pikachu used to look?

    This actually brings me to another popular Pokemon, Eevee. Everyone loves it. The fact that it is, once again, small and cute and can evolve into many other things. Everyone loved it because it never had what Pikachu had but it still remained a top 20 favorite Pokemon from Kanto. Everyone like it because it was unique but look at Eevee now. Its not on peoples hate list, and for good reason too! Why did Eevee need this treatment. It was fine when it was in the Pidgey class with other popular Pokemon but now its branded as a mascot. Its getting everything now, and we wanted it too but its really the guerilla marketing people are hating. Get your Eevee game! Get your Eevee everything to the point were the fans are going "this is getting out of hand". Yes, we love Eevee but we loved it because it wasn't Pikachu. We loved it because it was something we could make into anything - that is was the start of something different. No one loved Eevee because we wanted to go all the way with it, its because we could evolve it, like most of, if not all of use did. I chose a Vaporeon and that's my Eevee story. What was yours?

    Now, they don't want Eevee to evolve, the one thing it was designed to do. No one ever said, I want to be the Elite Four with Eevee... Well, maybe that one guy but you get my point. Look at Pokemon GO for example. It is the worst thing about Pokemon right now. Its so bad that any Pokemon related Google search will link back to a Pokemon GO page. You want to figure out a moveset for your Pidgeot, too bad because all you'll get in a Pokemon GO moveset. When I get a notification for the game, its something along the lines of "for a limited of time, catch a special Pikachu and Eevee in a hat". I tell myself "I want a special Pidgey in a hat". What can't I have that? I'd love to have a Pidgey in a Christmas hat but I'm not allowed to have that because they think I want Pikachu and Eevee. Why not a Vaporeon in a special hat? For me, and I'm sure a lot of you, you're starting to dislike Eevee. What was special about it is gone and now its just another Pikachu, something we didn't need.

    Magikarp is another example of a Pidgey popular mon. People like the jokes and memes about it, which are everywhere and TPC jumped on it and did so in a way that doesn't infringe on the community on it. Magikarp Jump felt like the devs are paying attention to us. They didn't force a bunch of Magikarp stuff on us. It exist in the odd space were we go "this joke is funny, thanks for making us laugh". It's a Pokemon a lot of use got early one and took along with us and just like Pidgeot, Gyarados, got a Mega Evolution and are Pokemon a lot of us had through the adventure.

    This does bring me to my next point. It feels like to me, a fan of Pokemon that they aren't treating us right. A lot of Pokemon we love aren't getting the attention they deserve. We all like different Pokemon but we are always forced to love the few they want us to. When it comes to product and such, our picks are the same which reinforce or at least creates false love for Pokemon. Sure Pikachu has fans but when you're only allowed to only buy a Pikachu plush from Wal-Mart, TPC goes "yes, this is proof everyone loves Pikachu" or at least what other Pokemon they want when all we want is a plush of the Pokemon we like. As a Pokemon fan over the years, I was never able to buy the product I wanted and finally now can get... one. It's good enough but do other Pokemon fans feel they aren't treated fairly?

    I ask this because I read a lot of post about what people want for Pokemon and it honestly feel like there is some disconnect somewhere. Pokemon GO changed Pokemon and spawned a "easy" mode Pokemon game, a series which wasn't hard to begin with. It feels for me, my generation of Pokemon fans get our throw back every now and then but it still misses the mark. Its just the gen one Pokemon they want us to like and the occasional "remember this Pokemon" moments.

    I suppose I said all of this because I do want a Let's Go Pidgey so I can put one in a little hat and give it a hair style but what about you? Don't you wish you could enjoy Pokemon the way to want with the support of TPC?
     


  2. Celever Wheeeee~
    Celever

    Member

    Yeah, Pikachu's popular, and deservedly so.
    Yeah, Pikachu ended up being popular thanks to it being pushed, but it's not accurate to say it was created for that reason specifically. After all, Clefairy and Jigglypuff were both going to be the mascots of the games before they decided on Pikachu being it, which is why Jigglypuff is in Smash bros., for example. And GameFreak handled this brilliantly with the example you just gave: Mimikyu is a callout of the over-production and manufacturing of Pikachu everywhere, and I think the reason why they did that is because GameFreak doesn't make the merch for the series, TPCi does. GF itself puts just as much time and care into designing every Pokémon we have, not just Pikachu, and I think Mimikyu was them poking fun at how TPCi doesn't create enough representation for other Pokémon and focusses too much on Pikachu.
    I think you're conflating popularity and iconography in regards to Pidgey. It's iconic because it's basic, a great representation of bird Pokémon in general, of which we have a significant number. But does that mean it's popular? Well, Pidgey ranked 337th in the last official poll conducted, the same rank as Druddigon. And as much as I love Druddigon, I have to admit that rank 337th doesn't compare with Mewtwo's rank 11th at all. Also, when have fans ever said they hate Mewtwo being included in things? It was included in DLC for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U as a result of popular demand, and everyone was pretty happy about it.
    It's not shiny locked, it's a normal Pidgey.
    Well, I think you would have a point in regards to a game like Pokémon Yellow, where you don't get to choose your starter Pokémon. But in regards to Charmander, Squirtle and Bulbasaur, you do choose them, and that choice is very significant for trainers. When kids I know talk about Pokémon they don't ask "what was the first Pokémon you caught?", they ask "which starter did you pick?". Also, in XY they do use the 3 Kantoan Starter Pokémon for nostalgia, just a little later in the game, right after the first gym. So you can't argue that Pidgey is more popular than the Kantoan Starter Pokémon because the game forces you to encounter one, when the game forces you to own one of the starters later on. And again, that encounter is done as a result of iconography -- Pidgey represents the random early game Pokémon people get to use as HM slaves and, sometimes, take throughout their journey, and sometimes not. Being the most popular of that small group of Pokémon, apparently, lands you 337th out of all of them. So it's an achievement, but it doesn't make it popular.
    Again, Pikachu was the third "icon" for the series they decided upon, originally it being Clefairy, and then Jigglypuff, which is why Jigglypuff has a major recurring role in the anime and is included in Super Smash Bros., and Clefairy is Red's starter in the manga. Jigglypuff and Clefairy, however, are nowhere close to being as iconic or popular as Pikachu, despite having had reasonable backing by merchandise, especially when the first generation was still hip 'n happening. I think Pikachu's defining trait more than anything else is the fact it's yellow. Not many things are yellow, and specifically not many things in media such as anime or anything else are yellow either. Being that colour made it stand out and when people saw yellow they would think of Pikachu, because it's rare. Pidgey doesn't have any sort of design trait like that; its iconography stems from its generic qualities, and while that's great for fans within the Pokémon series, that doesn't have reach outside of it. That's also a part of the more overarching aspect to why Pikachu stands out from other Pokémon, and that is that it feels a lot more fictional than most other Pokémon, especially in Gen I. Sure it's the "mouse" Pokémon, but it's bright yellow, is bipedal, has rose-red cheeks, pointed ears and lightning-bolt tail. That's a way more interesting design than Pidgey who is, for all intents and purposes, just a bird. Like, the reason its name is based on the pigeon while it better resembles a mix between a house sparrow and a chickadee is because pigeons are the typical generic bird.
    Eevee was given special treatment from the start, moreso than Pikachu, because it was given the special treatment in the games themselves. It was a gift Pokémon -- iirc the only one -- and had 3 evolutions which, as you pointed out, made it something people talked about. Compare that with Pikachu, who was just a rare encounter with Viridian Forest, and just had one evolution. There's a lot more special about Eevee than there is about Pikachu, and aggressive marketing for Eevee existed from the start. It was, after all, your rival's starter Pokémon in Pokémon Yellow, and then the player's starter Pokémon in XD: Gales of Darkness, while Espeon and Umbreon, two of its evolutions, were the 2 starter Pokémon in Colosseum. It never featured as prominently in the anime, though May did own one and after she did it tended to get a lot of screentime, but that doesn't mean it didn't have guerilla marketing from the start. In game stores you would see plushes of Pikachu and Eevee as staples, because Pikachu was the slightly cooler one for boys and Eevee the cute one for girls. The fact it didn't reach the same iconic status as Pikachu is because it didn't have the same distinctive features as Pikachu did, but that doesn't mean they didn't push it to be the second-most popular Pokémon. The reason it eventually lost out to Charizard is, again, because it's not as distinguishable in design as Charizard is, and Charizard was also on the boxes in all regions, whereas Blastoise was outside of Japan and Venusaur was inside of it. To state that Eevee is only being marketed more now is ignoring the fact that we got more Eeveelutions in Gen II and Gen IV also, specifically to give marketing of Eevee second and third wind respectively.
    That's because Eevee ended up being more popular than its evolutions. Good for it. It did evolve in Pokémon Yellow, and Colosseum, etc.. Let's Go! made a lot of great design choices and giving Eevee the limelight was one of them.
    Highest grossing mobile game of all time and bolstered sales for the next handheld games and TCG, while in general feeding Pokémon back into the public consciousness and making it cool and acceptable to talk about Pokémon again, to the joy of Pokémon fans everywhere. Sounds real bad to me.
    You can't have a Pidgey in a special hat because not enough people want a Pidgey in a special hat. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. Personally I'd love to see a Swalot in a santa costume too, but they can't give equal treatment to 750 different designs or whatever number we're at now. What Christmas theme would they give Magcargo, Tsareena, or Doublade? Make Magcargo snow instead of magma, Tsareena elf ears and wrap Doublade up in fairy lights? Why give Pidgey a santa hat and not Miltank or Lilligant? Pikachu and Eevee were given Santa hats because A) it looks cute on them and B) they can wear hats in Pokémon Let's Go!. I don't think Pidgey would look cute in a Santa hat, sorry.
    And Magikarp has also had special treatment from the start. In Gen I you got it through the Magikarp salesman, and then in Gen IV when Team Galactic blows up the lakes you see dozens of Magikarp. It has its own stage and music track in Pokken Tournament, and its own song on the Pokémon YouTube channel now. Its claim to fame is being the weakest Pokémon and that immediately makes it stand out. For 10 levels after you first get it in the first game it can only use Splash! Magikarp isn't a Pidgey-level popular Pokémon, it's far more popular than it, just like Eevee is and both always have been.
    I don't think anyone feels they're treated unfairly. Casual fans don't care enough that there's no merch of their favourite Pokémon, and hardcore fans get unlicensed merch or plushies of Pokémon they really love. There's merch out there for everyone, even if it's not all mass-produced. Nor should it be mass-produced; Pokémon is insanely popular, sure, but are there enough people who love specific Pokémon for it to be worth making official merchandise for all of them. For every fan who's dying for a Mantine plush, there's another for a Gligar, and another for a Numel, and chances are none of them would buy a plush of any of those other Pokémon, because they all appeal to different people. Pikachu, Eevee, the starters etc. are created to be inoffensive and not too obscure. Bayleef is just a cool plant dino, no one can think it looks dumb. Tropius, on the other hand, is something some people love and others think looks weird, even though it's also just a plant dino. The lack of mass-market appeal for something like Pidgey is good enough reason not to mass-produce them. The clue's in the terms.
    Pokémon GO isn't easy mode for Pokémon. That started in XY, continued into ORAS, and then stopped in Gen VII. GO is a mobile experience designed to boil down the complexities of the series and give it mass market appeal once again so that people who used to like the series can experience it again in a more portable, pick up and play for 5 minutes way. It was the perfect use of the many assets that Pokémon has, and gave for the most part just as much love to all Pokémon. Special events and the like will obviously be things that they want as many people to care about as possible, and so using Pikachu or Eevee for that is a surefire way to do it in the casual market the games are intended for, but the encounter rates of the rest of the Pokémon are for the most part consistent and are based on area, tying into the main gameplay of the game, which is walking around and travelling. To say Pokémon GO is an easy mode of Pokémon is clearly false because Pokémon GO is an action game, not a JRPG. It's like saying Call of Duty is the easy mode of Advance Wars, because both have guns in them.
    Pokémon fans aren't supposed to be split up generationally, but even if they are, when Pokémon GO came out it had the entire original 151, and special events weren't in the game until a few months into release. They gave every Pokémon completely even exposure in that game, and was perfect for your "generation" of Pokémon fans. And I have no idea how you can say the throwbacks miss the mark when specifically for the Pokémon you love, Pidgey, they hit the mark perfectly at the start of XY (though it still wasn't shiny locked). Nostalgia occurs when there's something to be nostalgic about. Pikachu and Eevee were icons outside of the series itself, and so were a big part of people's lives, and resultantly there's a lot of places for nostalgia to stem from. Tangela, Pidgey, or any other Gen I Pokémon might be really nostalgic for different small groups of people, but not enough for there to constantly be big throwbacks for them. Personally, the Pokémon from Gen I I get the most nostalgia from is Alakazam, because I found the rival battle at the end of the game really hard as a kid because of that Alakazam. That experience is different from yours, because you really cared about that first Pidgey you caught. For me, I saw Pidgey, thought "oh it's a bird", killed it, and then caught a Mankey for my first Pokémon later on.
    I enjoy Pokémon just the way it is. Your argument is fundamentally flawed: you're arguing that every Pokémon should be given special treatment, which then turns into equal treatment, which then turns into exactly what we have now for the majority of Pokémon. Consistent special treatment for Pokémon is what makes it valuable for fans of a certain Pokémon when that Pokémon gets its time in the sun. I loved when Ash caught a Snorunt, because it was a Pokémon I loved but never thought would get special treatment like that, and so when it did it was so much more meaningful to me than if I'd been seeing Snorunt billboards in my city already. Furthermore, with the number of Pokémon we now have, equal treatment is simply impossible. TPCi would go bankrupt quickly if it made an equal number of plushes for every Pokémon. It sucks for Simisear fans, but how many people are really gonna buy a Simisear plush? Kant proposed the idea of universalisation as a thought exercise to understand whether or not an action would make sense to perform, as most actions when applied equally to everyone lose their sense of value. Now you're suggesting TPCi should apply universalisation to Pokémon, and if they did, every Pokémon would lose its sense of value, and that would be fatal for the company and Pokémon franchise as a whole. You suggested that you want Let's Go! Pidgey, so how would that work? Would GameFreak custom-build cartridges to order, so that I could call in and get my Let's Go! Beartic, as that's my favourite Pokémon right now? Would they have to squish down a Beartic model so it could rid on my head, or make an entire model for it with animations, so I could ride the Beartic around myself? And what about for fans who don't have a standout favourite Pokémon, and just like a handful of them. Let's say they love dog Pokémon in particular because they just really love dogs, how would they choose between Let's Go! Manectric, Let's Go! Houndoom, Let's Go! Mightyena, Let's Go! Elektrike, Let's Go! Houndour, Let's Go! Poochyena, Let's Go! Lillipup, Let's Go! Herdier, or Let's Go! Stoutland? Not forgetting of course, Let's Go! Suicune, Let's Go! Raikou, Let's Go! Entei, Let's Go! Growlithe, Let's Go! Arcanine, Let's Go! Granbull, and Let's Go! Snubbull? Or Let's Go! Rockruff, Let's Go! Lycanroc-Day, Let's Go! Lycanroc-Night, Let's Go! Lycanroc-Dusk, or Let's Go! Furfrou? The entire thing is impractical, and sometimes you've just gotta accept your place as someone who loves something unpopular. That's more hipster and cool anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    bbninjas and Wechselbalg like this.
  3. Turtwig Retired Mod. Jovimohnaeliackvid.
    Turtwig

    Member

    Concerning Pikachu's popularity, I actually had en entire lecture in one of my Japanese pop culture classes talk about its genius position. As we know, Clefairy was originally going to be Ash's partner Pokemon--and they changed it, probably, due to it being a "cuter" pink Pokemon that didn't advertise well internally. Pikachu earned its reputation for a number of reasons; most importantly, it is very appealing to all children. Pikachu could look tough and shoot strong electric attacks, but it could also be cute and cuddly at the same time. And as Celever said, it's yellow.

    Its name is also very easy to remember--in Japanese, "pika pika" is an onomatopoeia for "sparkling," and those mimetic sounds are very popular in casual speech. In English, "Pikachu" is very distinct (and "Jigglypuff" doesn't sound as universal/gender-neutral I guess, but that's just my opinion). You aren't easily going to forget something that sounded different yet not too "exotic," for the lack of a better word, to the general public. Pikachu was a simple mouse Pokemon that had static powers and a convincing design/name. Pikachu's popularity makes sense.

    Charizard, though, does honestly get on my nerves. I understand the nostalgia: the pseudo-"dragon" starter Pokemon, the cool fire-breathing lizard/dragon of death. But TPC has been repping Charizard a little too hard for my taste. Giving it two mega evolutions is honestly not fair when most starter trios didn't even get one (and I'm not sure they will since the mechanic hasn't continued). Charizard was the main of Pokemon Origins, became a ride Pokemon in Alola, an important character in the battling games, and is very marketable and recognizable. Obviously, the community does like Charizard and TPC is doing well by capitalizing on it. But yeah, I don't really like it anymore.

    Celever's point about Mimikyu does show some reflexive awareness on the Pokemon Company's part. It's just business. They have to make money somehow.
     
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  4. iGeek256 I only use Electric types. Help me
    iGeek256

    Member

    Personally I’m fine with Pikachu and Eevee, I just think they should be shown more with their family(Minun, Plusle, Pachirisu, etc...)/evolutions respectively. As an example, Pokémon let’s go would have been so much more interesting if you chose to evolve your Pikachu (or not) into Raichu or Alolan Raichu and if you chose which of the 8 Eeveelutions you wanted your Eevee to grow up into.
     

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