OU: Pokémon Deoxys Discussion Thread

One Approved

One Approved

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All right so as we all should know by now, Deoxys-Defense, Speed, and Normal formes have been unbanned for the time being. Attack still resides up in Ubers (screw base 180 attacking stats), but the rest are legitimate threats that we have to deal with. (At least for now.) With 3 different formes and a plethora of attacking options, I figured this would be a great pokemon to have some discussion on.

Just a couple things to note:
1) Don't turn this into a debate thread on whether or not Deoxys as a whole, or any of its formes should be banned.
2) Don't turn this into a debate on which Forme is the best. There's 2 different formes that perform in completely different ways. Even though it's the same pokemon, it's still like comparing apples to oranges.

Deoxys
Type: Psychic
Stats:

Defense: 50/70/160/70/160/90
Speed: 50/95/90/95/90/180

Notable Moves:
Spikes
Taunt
Extremespeed
Knock Off
Superpower
Zen Headbutt
Psychic
Psycho Boost

Stealth Rock
Thunder Wave
Reflect
Light Screen
Energy Ball
Focus Blast
Grass Knot
Ice Beam
Psyshock
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt

Nasty Plot
Seismic Toss
Dark Pulse
Magic Coat
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch


Thoughts and Possible Sets:

*nuked*

Defensive Hazarder
Deoxys-Defense @Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Trait: Pressure
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 SpDef
~Stealth Rock/Knock Off
~Spikes
~Recover
~Toxic/Seismic Toss

Deo-D was the last Deoxys forme to be banned last generation, starting the format all the way down in UU. The defenses on this pokemon are absurd, and Recover allows it to stick around longer than its other formes. Spikes is pretty standard, and with Rocky Helmet you can kill off the opposing Spinners more quickly. Toxic/Seismic Toss is up to you. Seismic Toss is more consistent for damage, but Toxic can cripple a lot of pokemon. Just beware if you see Gengar on the opposing side of the field, if you get trapped, you an kiss your hazard setter goodbye.

I just want to throw out the disclaimer I'm not sure if Specially Defensive or Physically Defensive is better for the EV Spread with this generation. I put SpDef up since it was the go-to last generation with Rain being the dominant playstyle. However that's definitely subject to change this gen, feel free to let me know.

Fast Hazarder
Deoxys-Speed @Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
Jolly
252 HP/4 SpAtk/252 Spe
~Spikes
~Stealth Rock/Magic Coat
~Taunt
~Psycho Boost

Set up hazards and then die. Proceed to nuke opposing team with the five offensive pokemon you have running behind this Deoxys. Spikes is standard, Stealth Rock is the main 2nd option since Taunt will shut down most opposing Hazard users. However, Magic Coat is an option specifically for Prankster Taunt users. Psycho Boost goes into the last slot because there's not much else to use.

Dual Screens
Deoxys-Speed @Light Clay
Trait: Pressure
Jolly
252 HP/4 /252 Spe
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Stealth Rock
~Taunt/Magic Coat

Deoxys is probably the best Dual Screener in the tier at the moment. Due to its blistering base 180 speed and solid-ish 50/90/90 bulk, it gets both screens up very consistently. Stealth Rock and Taunt are primary options but again, Magic Coat can be used in case of Prankster Taunt-users, since Taunt makes this set completely useless.

Nasty Plot - props to unsheathed
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam / Grass Knot

Psyshock for Blissey, who I think will be 2hko'd after SR. Thunderbolt for bulky Water-types and Jellicent, who would be a decent answer to tank your attacks otherwise. Final moveslot is for getting a little extra coverage. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Genesect (who you outspeed even if scarf lol) hard. Ice Beam provides decent coverage viw BoltBeam and handles Lati@s and Hippowdon. Grass Knot still hits Hippowdon, while also helping vs Tyranitar and Gastrodon.

Overall Thoughts and Other Options:
Deoxys got nerfed pretty hard this generation. Deoxys-Speed got shafted the most by far with the buff to Defog. Having a move that not only removes all hazard but also both Reflect and Light Screen makes a hazarder or Dual Screener that dies within the first 2-4 turns of the game a lot less desirable than in previous generations. It's not completely worthless though, since most Defogers are weak to Stealth Rock, and Defog, unlike Rapid Spin, can be shut down by Taunt. It will require some savvy play, however.

Deoxys-Defense remains much the same threat it was last generation. The Defog buff hurts it but not nearly as much, since it can reliably use Recover to ensure its longevity. There used to be a Deoxys-Defense set that was more offensive. It ran Spikes and followed it up with Psycho Boost paired with either Fire Gem-boosted Hidden Power Fire or Thunderbolt.The goal was to run hazards and then run coverage options that prevented the opposition from using Rapid Spin. (Psycho Boost nuked Tentacruel and Donphan, HP Fire beat down Forretress while Thunderbolt beat Starmie.) However, I'm not sure how viable this set ends up being this generation as Thunderbolt got slightly nerfed in power, while HP Fire took a 10-point hit. I'm not sure if it will still manage an OHKO on Forretress, but it definitely won't come close against Excadrill.

*nuked*
 
A few things 'cos I'm busy right now:
First, Deoxys-N can run Shadow Ball or Ice Beam in place of Stealth Rock. I've used this set a few times as a copy from my standard Deoxys-A lead in Ubers. Stealth Rock is a viable option, but Ice Beam deals with Garchomp and Salamence without having to lower SpA, courtesy of Psycho Boost, and Shadow Ball functions for things like MegaGar, MegaZam and Aegislash.
Deoxys-D can also run Night Shade if you don't want Ghosts to easily dispose of it. Same goes for Dual Screens Deoxys-S, as a replacement to either Stealth Rock or Taunt/Magic Coat so that you don't become total Taunt bait.
On the EV spread of Deoxys-D, I can't be quite sure yet. However, for the time being, I suggest throwing the EVs in Defense, since many new physical threats have apperared (like Pinsir, Aegislash and Azumarill). Until PokeBank is released and the metagame settles, however, I cannot be sure myself.
 
Just a quick point that I would like to make that may be irrelevant, but if comparing the forms is like comparing apples to oranges (or Dragonite to Salamence if you prefer) then maybe each form should have its own thread, seeing as they are all basically different pokemon?

On another note, would a wall-breaking set similar to what Black-Kyurem does on the physical side be a good option? It could just come in and destroy the usual walls for several pokemon, and with its amazing stats on both sides that shouldn't be hard. I can run some calcs later but if this isn't viable please let me know, I'm trying hard to learn the nuances of competitive play but I don't think I really have it down yet.
 
MtheW said:
Just a quick point that I would like to make that may be irrelevant, but if comparing the forms is like comparing apples to oranges (or Dragonite to Salamence if you prefer) then maybe each form should have its own thread, seeing as they are all basically different pokemon?

On another note, would a wall-breaking set similar to what Black-Kyurem does on the physical side be a good option? It could just come in and destroy the usual walls for several pokemon, and with its amazing stats on both sides that shouldn't be hard. I can run some calcs later but if this isn't viable please let me know, I'm trying hard to learn the nuances of competitive play but I don't think I really have it down yet.
Click to expand...

It /could/ work. The only problem I see is that the most powerful STAB attack you get on the Physical side is Zen Headbutt, which is really weak when you compare it to something as obnoxiously strong as Psycho Boost. I feel like a mixed set would generally break down cores better, but hypothetically it is possible since Deoxys gets all sorts of fun coverage moves.

Also I linked all of them in the same discussion forum because I didn't want to make 3 different threads when each of the 3 formes really only have 1 set each that they can really use effectively.
 
Alright that makes sense to me (as to why they are all on the same thread). I was thinking for a wallbreaker maybe a set with Superpower and then three coverage moves on the special side. This way it could take out things like Blissey and Chansey, and maybe Ferrothorn and a few others I can't think of, while also still destroying with special attacks. Psyshock might be a good option as well.
 
In my opinion, any Deoxys set that has both hazards, or even just Spikes due to the amount of time dedicated, is doomed for failure in this metagame. The threat of Defog compromises any hope of Deoxys Hyper Offense working like it did in its prime last generation. Deoxys-D can somewhat compensate Defog with it bulk to last the match. The problem with that is that it hurts the playstyle's ability to stack hazards fast and pound the opponent hard. Now it's outlast the Defog user while keeping your other Pokemon healthy to execute the strategy, which is something a little difficult for hyper offense.

Although we can also argue that Deoxys HO died due to there being no spam types in this metagame besides Ghost-type (lel 80 bp move).

Deoxys with Nasty Plot was not a thing last generation because it was released after the ban. Sadly, the only useable forme for Nasty Plot is Deoxys-S, and it didn't have the stats to break things or setup at +2 in Ubers. Now that it's OU again, I can see a Nasty Plot Deoxys-S somewhat working. 95 SpAtk, decent defenses, and blazing fast speed makes strong priority and extremely fast Scarfers (read as: anything faster than base 103 speed) as the only reliable answer outside of bulky walls like Blissey (oh, wait, Psyshock). I'd run something like...

Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam / Grass Knot

Psyshock for Blissey, who I think will be 2hko'd after SR. Thunderbolt for bulky Water-types and Jellicent, who would be a decent answer to tank your attacks otherwise. Final moveslot is for getting a little extra coverage. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Genesect (who you outspeed even if scarf lol) hard. Ice Beam provides decent coverage viw BoltBeam and handles Lati@s and Hippowdon. Grass Knot still hits Hippowdon, while also helping vs Tyranitar and Gastrodon.
 
Do you need the 252 Speed on Deoxys, or is there a number you can hit followed by putting the rest in bulk? With base 180 Speed I'm assuming there's a point where it just becomes pointless to run more speed. I don't know the speed tiers for this gen with Genesect and Deo-N and whatnot being in this tier though...

EDIT: also adding this to OP :)
 
252 Timid is enough to outspeed Scarf Garchomp and tie other Deoxys-S. There's really no point in taking a few EVs (like maybe 12 so you still outspeed Chomp???) away from speed.
 
...it ouspeeds scarf chomp. Jesus that mon is fast. <_<. But yeah, I'd rather tie the other Deoxys at that point as well if it's just like 12 EVs. If it was like 40 I'd reconsider but I gues not.
 
NOTE: Deoxys-Normal forme has been officially banned from OU. Only Speed and Defense remain. *nukes OP*

Blaziken has also been banned :F
 
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