Discussion Deck Building Thought Process

[BKRapper]

Hey everyone,

I was hoping to see if anyone cared to share their thought process when building competitive decks. I am a newer player (been playing for maybe 4 months) and while I can make a deck that might win me a few matches, overall I'd get crushed by anyone who's played the game competitively for any serious amount of time. In my time scouring Pokebeach, I find a lot of the articles to be really helpful for skeletons but I am more of the "teach a wo/man/atee to fish" type of person. Personally, getting into the right mindset for building a list is better than any skeleton list you could give me because having that personal touch on a deck is more valuable than just copy and pasting.

Which gets me to the question(s)... What questions do you ask yourself when you start building a deck(s) for competitive play? I'll start off by providing questions and answers from my standpoint and hopefully you all might follow suit.

- What is your style of play?
Fast and furious (for now). I am a fan of Volcanion because it appears to be the most beginner-friendly deck. I can put it down, put some energy on and then find my response for all subsequent plays.

- What is the meta?
For me - who knows?! I read Pokebeach articles, I watch YouTube videos, I observe what's being played online but even after doing those things, I still feel lost.

- How do you know if a deck isn't "consistent" enough? *Dead stare + shoulder shrug* Consistent how? For me, I guess with Volcanion - getting a baby and a couple of EX's + 2 or more energy on the board (1 active, 1 bench) by the end of turn 1 or 2 most of the time would be consistent in my opinion. I'm sure a more seasoned Volc player would say I'm wrong and if I am, please let me know. Is there a universal definition of "consistency" for a deck?

- How many Pokémon/Supporters should I play? I have a tough time determining this one, I've been taking skeleton lists but it would be nice to make this assessment on my own for each different deck I make.

- How do you know a card (or even a deck) is "bad" (aside from losing a lot)?

- Are there specific goals you set ahead of time that you need to hit in order to give a deck a passing grade for playability? Example - If you're playing Vesipiquen, you say to yourself that your goal is to have 10 Pokémon in the discard plus 1 Vespi in the active with a DCE on by turn 4 every game. If you don't hit that goal, you adjust to maximize that outcome and once you have, you move to the next goal?

- How often do you go to league for input? For me - rarely. Family plus work obligations keep me from being able to go consistently. Is there any advice for filling the gap?

Any other questions you all might ask yourself would be greatly welcome!

 

[Fayld]

- What is your style of play?
I play a few different styles, but tend to be pretty big on decks that are off the beaten path a bit. For example, one deck I find fun in Standard is a Togekiss / Darkrai deck. I figure this is a good deck to reference for the rest of the questions since it goes into things like consistency issues, etc. One consistent theme for most of my decks is that I want them to hit like a truck without giving my opponent much of a chance to counter. Note, that doesn't necessarily mean "speed, speed, speed". It just means things like "my Darkrai + bench can go from 2 darkness energy to 7 with two cards" type of thing.

- What is the meta?
I do a ton of reading on a variety of sites and I have found are three basic answers. 1. the overall meta = the general decks that are considered viable in regional play. 2. the more specific meta concerns the decks you are more likely to see in your given area on a given day. 3. the online meta = tends to be much more broad in skill, quality of decks, and general ingenuity. You are far more likely to face something you will never see anywhere else online. Generally, I have found it most beneficial to focus on #2.

- How do you know if a deck isn't "consistent" enough?
My definition is basically "how frequently do I have my desired set up by turn 3". If my deck doesn't consistently set up very similarly by turn three, it isn't consistent enough. Togekiss / Darkrai is a perfect example of a deck that absolutely does NOT set up consistently enough. There are games where I have a Togekiss out and loading energy by turn 2. There are games I don't have it ready until turn 5. There are games where I have it read turn 2, but only have one Darkrai / Umbreon EX out meaning if I burn my Togekiss evolution that turn, I end up having too much energy on too few Pokemon.

Contrast this with my Rayquaza / Eelektross variant. That deck almost always has two Eelektriks, 1 Smeargle, and 1 / 2 Rayquaza's down turn 2 leading to extremely heavy damage very early and a lot of turn 5-7 wins. Not every deck needs to set up that fast to be consistent, but I think general rule of thumb is that unless you are playing a speed deck, your board should look pretty consistent by turn 3.

- How many Pokémon/Supporters should I play?
Entirely depends on the deck. There is no good answer for this in my opinion. What I have found personally is that the standard 3-4 Sycamore, 3-4 N, 1-2 Lysandre, 4 VS Seeker, 4 Ultra Ball works in just about every deck. After that, it entirely depends. Max Elixir is a good example: great in some decks, hot garbage in others.

- How do you know a card (or even a deck) is "bad" (aside from losing a lot)?
I think this is another relative answer. It depends on what you are looking to do, but if you are looking at competitive decks, I think it is all about how well it meshes with other cards. There is a reason why decks like Yveltal EX, Turbo Darkrai, Volcanion, etc. are all the top of the house. It is because the pieces play together to consistently set the deck up and knock things out. Contrast this with what is a T3 deck (at best) with M Altaria. It sets up relatively fast. It is effective against the decks it is meant to counter (primarily Yveltal and Turbo Darkrai due to resistance + healing). But it is outclassed by almost any other deck in the current meta due to its inability to hit hard enough to dump something like M Mewtwo before it obliterates M Altaria. There are techs you can play to help, but overall it is never going to get to the level of a T1 deck because it simply doesn't have the hammers necessary to make it happen. I happen to find that deck fun, but realistically it only really dominates T3 types of decks, is competitive with some T1 - T2 decks, but gets hammered by some of the others.

- Are there specific goals you set ahead of time that you need to hit in order to give a deck a passing grade for playability?
Depends on the deck, but most of the time my primary goal is to be down to about 30 cards after T1. That is completely arbitrary, but it tends to mean that I have what I need down and am ready to start countering my opponent. Basically, I have found deck thinning to be far and away the most important thing for my decks. Without adequate thinning, everything starts to be too reliant on draw supporters and that reliance puts me in a bind far too often

- How often do you go to league for input?
Also rarely. My league is great about being willing to play and chat about cards, but ultimately I am still one of the older players in the room I tend to work by trial and error. Build something online, run it a bunch. If it works consistently enough AND I find the style fun, I will build it at home to play in league / tournaments.

 

[BKRapper]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Your thoughts are really helpful and definitely give me a new perspective on how to think through challenges.
I wonder if anyone else would mind sharing their thoughts.