Darkrai-EX / Giratina-EX / Garbodor

so to sum up darkrai variant (i only list the major attackers):

Darkrai/Giratina/ Garbodor

Darkrai/Giratina/ Garbodor/baby Yveltal

Darkrai/Giratina/ Garbodor/Latios
Has the additional power to T1 donk NM, conbee, Phantump, Froakie, Jirachi

Darkrai/ Yveltal (mix of baby, flight night and EX)/Garbodor
Lower output, does worse against NM, but in theory more consistent

Darkrai/Yveltal (mix of baby, flight night and EX)/Zoroark
Zoroark is an answer towards Jolteon EX, added mobility, but poor Greninj MU
 
LightningCloud224 said:
I agree. The giratina though adds power to darkrai's first attack that it needs in some matchups. Yveltal ex, which is far superior, has the problem that it's weak to joltik, whereas darkrai resists pumpkaboo and mew.
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I'm not so much worried about the resistance or weakness to one or the other. I'm more worried about the prize card race. It's very easy without a specific counter to NM for NM to win the race. You can OHKO everything on NM's board, but so can NM against this deck unless they somehow can't remove FFB. I would think more NM decks tech at least one Xerosic now though. OR they can do what has been working for most and target whistle/Lysandre combo the shaymin. I just feel Giratina gives you the advantage in this matchup as well as Mega Ray.
 
^This
Giratina is just way to beneficial in crucial Matchups. In my opinion it is a Key Component to this Deck, since its Goals are countering the Meta Decks and NM will be Meta at Worlds, aswell as Mega-Decks ( Megaman, MegaRay) and since it adds 80 Dmg to Darkrai in just 2 Turns i find it an insane Dmg acceleration, potentially hitting Turn 1 for 140 Dmg and Turn 2 for 200
 
Shifusansou said:
^This
Giratina is just way to beneficial in crucial Matchups. In my opinion it is a Key Component to this Deck, since its Goals are countering the Meta Decks and NM will be Meta at Worlds, aswell as Mega-Decks ( Megaman, MegaRay) and since it adds 80 Dmg to Darkrai in just 2 Turns i find it an insane Dmg acceleration, potentially hitting Turn 1 for 140 Dmg and Turn 2 for 200
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I feel like this deck would be much stronger with an aromatisse type engine. Energy denial and speedy knockouts on energy holders put a huge damper in your thought process.
 
so how sbout Latios ex? if you are not starting with it, i could be discarded mostly. And playing Latios ex means you have to play muscle band over belt (60 damage really matter), but personally i prefer belt on darkrai ex or giratina ex
 
I only play latios ex if i Start with it or have a Chance to ohko my enemy. If i dont i always prefer sth else in the active spot. Belts on gir and dark are the prefered choice i suppose, i only go for the Band if im out of belts or i need the extra 20 dmg
 
what I mean is, if you play latios ex, you need to use muscle band over belt, or do a split. either way hurt Darkrai ex and Giratina ex in mid to late game. and if you can't get muscle band on latios ex, you miss many OHKO (froakie, zorua, Jirachi)
 
Aaah, i See. Yeah you've got a point there. I've had Latios win me a few games, like 5-10%, but most of the times it is a dead card. So how important is latios? And how consistent is the 60dmg setup t1?
 
Shifusansou said:
Aaah, i See. Yeah you've got a point there. I've had Latios win me a few games, like 5-10%, but most of the times it is a dead card. So how important is latios? And how consistent is the 60dmg setup t1?
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That's a question I was having. I'm 99% finished with constructing this and I didn't know if I should keep or toss Latios for something better.
 
The latios has to use two double dragon to access its second attack. Latios really only has the donk power for turn 1 and then it just cuts into giratina's energy pool. By playing latios, you might miss the chaos wheel later.
 
After Steam Siege could this deck perhaps be stronger with Xerneas BREAK and Geomancy Xerneas (XY Base / Steam Siege) instead of Darkrai? As Xerneas BREAK essentially has the attack of Darkrai-EX but for {Y}{Y} and the ability to accelerate energy, plus it's an evolution and non-ex to get around wall decks (Jolteon-EX, Regice etc.), and you could also make use of Fairy Drop if you wanted.

Xerneas-BREAK-XY11.jpg

Xerneas BREAK retains the attacks, Abilities, Weakness, Resistance, and Retreat Cost of its previous Evolution.

[Y][Y] Life Stream: 20x damage. This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to all of your Pokemon.
 
MarshalBry said:
After Steam Siege could this deck perhaps be stronger with Xerneas BREAK and Geomancy Xerneas (XY Base / Steam Siege) instead of Darkrai? As Xerneas BREAK essentially has the attack of Darkrai-EX but for {Y}{Y} and the ability to accelerate energy, plus it's an evolution and non-ex to get around wall decks (Jolteon-EX, Regice etc.), and you could also make use of Fairy Drop if you wanted.

Xerneas-BREAK-XY11.jpg

Xerneas BREAK retains the attacks, Abilities, Weakness, Resistance, and Retreat Cost of its previous Evolution.

[Y][Y] Life Stream: 20x damage. This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to all of your Pokemon.
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while i do like your thinking here, the main reason the deck uses the darkrais is to counter trev break decks, though if your area doesn't play a ton of trev, then you could potenially run this in its place
 
Thats a really good option. I think it could be an interesting Deck on its own, but there isn't much with Fairy Weakness sadly
 
What is the strategy against trevenant when they run crushing hammers, team flare grunt, xerosic and/or enhanced hammer? I'd think this would maintain board control over darkrai. Weakness policy would make it worse.
 
LightningCloud224 said:
What is the strategy against trevenant when they run crushing hammers, team flare grunt, xerosic and/or enhanced hammer? I'd think this would maintain board control over darkrai. Weakness policy would make it worse.
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Xerosic and Enhanced Hammer aren't as big a problem as Crushing Hammer and Team Flare Grunt, to my way of thinking, because your primary attacker against Trevenant should be Darkrai-EX anyway. Baby Yveltal goes a long way toward mitigating the effects of basic Energy removal while still taking a decent chunk out of your opponent's Pokemon to soften them up for Darkrai. Weakness Policy isn't something you're likely to see much of because Bursting Balloon offers Trevenant better consistency in a deck that's really strapped for space. Even if your opponent does play it, teching in a copy of Startling Megaphone/Xerosic mitigates that problem while also being useful in the mirror matchup.
 
Afaik the Winner of Italian nationals ran 2x weakness policy. Since Trev won, dark Decks either werent played frequently, he manages to Dodge them or didnt play any tool removal. I think xerosic is an extremely good choice in this deck, since it helps you against item lock tools and special energies against nm/vv etc. Startling megaphone should be superior in fighting matchups and mirror i guess. Hmmm, hard choice, maybe run both?
 
dwarfstar said:
Xerosic and Enhanced Hammer aren't as big a problem as Crushing Hammer and Team Flare Grunt, to my way of thinking, because your primary attacker against Trevenant should be Darkrai-EX anyway. Baby Yveltal goes a long way toward mitigating the effects of basic Energy removal while still taking a decent chunk out of your opponent's Pokemon to soften them up for Darkrai. Weakness Policy isn't something you're likely to see much of because Bursting Balloon offers Trevenant better consistency in a deck that's really strapped for space. Even if your opponent does play it, teching in a copy of Startling Megaphone/Xerosic mitigates that problem while also being useful in the mirror matchup.
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I've seen successful trevenant decks run weakness policy x2-3 and head ringer x2 in my area because they want to counter Yveltal EX. I'd think it'd work the same only better for darkrai ex. Xerosic and AZ sound like good inclusions for this reason.
 
If Trevenant wants to be sucessful right now they're going to have to run head ringers. It'll be the only way to slow down dark decks and give them enough time to KO.
 
Well, i guess Head Ringer helps Trev but is not neccessary. The winner of Italian Nationals didnt run any at all afaik.
Anyways, do you guys think Garchomp is an autolose if they dont draw absolutely dead?
Or literarly any Fighting Deck ?
 
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Shifusansou said:
Well, i guess Head Ringer helps Trev but is not neccessary. The winner of Italian Nationals didnt run any at all afaik.
Anyways, do you guys think Garchomp is an autolose if they dont draw absolutely dead?
Or literarly any Fighting Deck ?
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I think that is a reasonable assumption. Garchomp tears through ex decks, the fighting weakness on darkrai would make it easier because they could accelerate energy potentially for a knockout with proper boosts.
 
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