Discussion Current BDIF and Popular Decks

Sharkrai

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hi there! I've been busy with o-chem and such so I got slightly behind on what's new with the meta right now. I last worked on a Ninetales-GX (LOT)/Solgaleo-GX deck, but I'm not sure where that one stands now and what's currently in the meta. Can anyone give me an update on what decks are popular in both formats (basically state of the meta) and maybe some predictions for what will be good after rotation this year for standard? Thanks!
 

snoopy369

Aspiring Trainer
Advanced Member
Member
I'd take a look at Limitless to see what people are playing, but basically there are four or so decks that are "very common", none is BDIF. Here's my rankings:

Tier 1:
Zapdos/Jirachi (either straight electric or Ultra versions that have Buzzwole/Nihilego)
Pikachu+Zekrom (either Turbo or with Zapdos, or some other odd varieties like Lucario or Lycanroc)
Ultra Malamar
Zoroark/Lycanroc/Lucario or simliar

Tier 2:
Blacephalon ("CakePop" or "Blowns")
Zoroark Control (despite the Denver win, it's not tier 1 in a meta that pays attention to its existence, but nice job Caleb taking advantage of that)
Malamar non-Ultra
Various Spread archetypes (Koko/Lele spread, Passimian, etc.)

Tier 3:
Lost March
BuzzRoc
Celebi+Venusaur TT (both attacking and Vileplume Stall)

This is just off the top of my head, there's probably others, but most of the competitive decks I see are one of tier 1 or tier 2. All of the tier 3 have major problems against one or more Tier 1 decks, but are otherwise interesting.
 

CrownAxe

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokebeach just had an article that did a good job explaining why Ultra Malamar isn't a really a tier 1 deck
 

AngryBokoblin

Guzzlord is fun
Member
Pokebeach just had an article that did a good job explaining why Ultra Malamar isn't a really a tier 1 deck
Oh, I'm so happy I found someone to debate that with. I'm not a subscriber so I can't leave an angry comment on that post.
I main Mally. I'm been playing it (basically) since it came out (with toxapex, then straight tina, then normal necrozma, then ULTRA because I was sick of losing).

To say that mally loses to Pikarom, Zoro, AND dos is over the top. To say that mally is very inconsistent is not true. I've refined my mally to a point where I get set up EVERY game, 2-3 mally online, turn 2-3 (most games I don't need the third or even second turn 2). In my opinion, the Ultra Mally decks running around right now are unrefined piles of garbage, and if they focused on techs and constancy before pure power, they would do well.

I AUTOWIN against Zoro (that does not play girafarig) with chimecho/diancie/marshadow and even if I do run into Zoro control, I can still win with ultra necrozma and giratinas. Zoro Control is a hard matchup and I admit it. Stall in general is a yikes.

The Pikarom matchup is a test of speed and unless they play turbo pikarom (which I have yet to be able to test against:(), I can usually get ahead in the prize trade with marshadow GX. Even if I get behind on the prizes, I have my necrozmas' (both ultra and dawn wings) GX attacks to help me get back into control.

Against dos, if they bench fighting weak GXs, I can guzma KO for easy prizes, and if they stick to dos, they eventually run out of steam. 130 is hard to hit for them.

Pokémon - 20
* 4 Inkay FLI 50
* 4 Malamar FLI 51
* 2 Marshadow-GX BUS 156
* 1 Ultra Necrozma-GX FLI 95
* 1 Dawn Wings Necrozma-GX UPR 161
* 1 Giratina PR SM151
* 1 Deoxys CES 67
* 1 Chimecho CIN 43
* 1 Diancie {*} FLI 74
* 2 Jirachi TEU 99
* 1 Marshadow SLG 45
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 155

Trainer Cards - 29
* 4 Mysterious Treasure
* 3 Ultra Ball
* 2 Nest Ball
* 2 Pokémon Communication
* 2 Rescue Stretcher
* 3 Escape Board
* 2 Viridian Forest
* 3 Cynthia
* 4 Guzma
* 4 Lillie

Energy - 11
* 9 Psychic Energy
* 2 Metal Energy
WHY'S THE SPOILER NOT WORKING!
 

Serperior

464/500
Advanced Member
Member
There's no doubt that hitting 130 every turn is difficult for Zapdos to achieve, but that's not the strategy against Malamar. They start applying pressure from the very first turn picking off Inkay, and after that, Malamar, when they can. Shadow Impact does 40 to whatever, and if that's yourself, 90 is easy to hit. If you devote the 40 to a Malamar, that's going down without a damage modifier. If the Zapdos player also includes Absol in their deck, you have no convenient way to Retreat into your Giratina. The matchup is unfavorable, but not unwinnable. A lot of it comes down to how many Malamar you can set up on the second turn and/or if the Zapdos player takes a Knock Out on the first turn.
 

AngryBokoblin

Guzzlord is fun
Member
There's no doubt that hitting 130 every turn is difficult for Zapdos to achieve, but that's not the strategy against Malamar. They start applying pressure from the very first turn picking off Inkay, and after that, Malamar, when they can. Shadow Impact does 40 to whatever, and if that's yourself, 90 is easy to hit. If you devote the 40 to a Malamar, that's going down without a damage modifier. If the Zapdos player also includes Absol in their deck, you have no convenient way to Retreat into your Giratina. The matchup is unfavorable, but not unwinnable. A lot of it comes down to how many Malamar you can set up on the second turn and/or if the Zapdos player takes a Knock Out on the first turn.
I can get malamars out easily.
Also, that's one case where deoxys is better than tina.
 

dangs91

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'd take a look at Limitless to see what people are playing, but basically there are four or so decks that are "very common", none is BDIF. Here's my rankings:

Tier 1:
Zapdos/Jirachi (either straight electric or Ultra versions that have Buzzwole/Nihilego)
Pikachu+Zekrom (either Turbo or with Zapdos, or some other odd varieties like Lucario or Lycanroc)
Ultra Malamar
Zoroark/Lycanroc/Lucario or simliar

Tier 2:
Blacephalon ("CakePop" or "Blowns")
Zoroark Control (despite the Denver win, it's not tier 1 in a meta that pays attention to its existence, but nice job Caleb taking advantage of that)
Malamar non-Ultra
Various Spread archetypes (Koko/Lele spread, Passimian, etc.)

Tier 3:
Lost March
BuzzRoc
Celebi+Venusaur TT (both attacking and Vileplume Stall)

This is just off the top of my head, there's probably others, but most of the competitive decks I see are one of tier 1 or tier 2. All of the tier 3 have major problems against one or more Tier 1 decks, but are otherwise interesting.

I would also add Quagsire Naganadel with Magikarp-Wailord TT (not sure whether it belongs on tier 2 or 3 but definitely fun)
 

Sharkrai

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Oh, I'm so happy I found someone to debate that with. I'm not a subscriber so I can't leave an angry comment on that post.
I main Mally. I'm been playing it (basically) since it came out (with toxapex, then straight tina, then normal necrozma, then ULTRA because I was sick of losing).

To say that mally loses to Pikarom, Zoro, AND dos is over the top. To say that mally is very inconsistent is not true. I've refined my mally to a point where I get set up EVERY game, 2-3 mally online, turn 2-3 (most games I don't need the third or even second turn 2). In my opinion, the Ultra Mally decks running around right now are unrefined piles of garbage, and if they focused on techs and constancy before pure power, they would do well.

I AUTOWIN against Zoro (that does not play girafarig) with chimecho/diancie/marshadow and even if I do run into Zoro control, I can still win with ultra necrozma and giratinas. Zoro Control is a hard matchup and I admit it. Stall in general is a yikes.

The Pikarom matchup is a test of speed and unless they play turbo pikarom (which I have yet to be able to test against:(), I can usually get ahead in the prize trade with marshadow GX. Even if I get behind on the prizes, I have my necrozmas' (both ultra and dawn wings) GX attacks to help me get back into control.

Against dos, if they bench fighting weak GXs, I can guzma KO for easy prizes, and if they stick to dos, they eventually run out of steam. 130 is hard to hit for them.

Pokémon - 20
* 4 Inkay FLI 50
* 4 Malamar FLI 51
* 2 Marshadow-GX BUS 156
* 1 Ultra Necrozma-GX FLI 95
* 1 Dawn Wings Necrozma-GX UPR 161
* 1 Giratina PR SM151
* 1 Deoxys CES 67
* 1 Chimecho CIN 43
* 1 Diancie {*} FLI 74
* 2 Jirachi TEU 99
* 1 Marshadow SLG 45
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 155

Trainer Cards - 29
* 4 Mysterious Treasure
* 3 Ultra Ball
* 2 Nest Ball
* 2 Pokémon Communication
* 2 Rescue Stretcher
* 3 Escape Board
* 2 Viridian Forest
* 3 Cynthia
* 4 Guzma
* 4 Lillie

Energy - 11
* 9 Psychic Energy
* 2 Metal Energy
WHY'S THE SPOILER NOT WORKING!
Wouldn't everything fall apart after the rotation this summer? Since Marshadow is BUS and all, I assume necromar decks will fall out of favor?
 

Sharkrai

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'd take a look at Limitless to see what people are playing, but basically there are four or so decks that are "very common", none is BDIF. Here's my rankings:

Tier 1:
Zapdos/Jirachi (either straight electric or Ultra versions that have Buzzwole/Nihilego)
Pikachu+Zekrom (either Turbo or with Zapdos, or some other odd varieties like Lucario or Lycanroc)
Ultra Malamar
Zoroark/Lycanroc/Lucario or simliar

Tier 2:
Blacephalon ("CakePop" or "Blowns")
Zoroark Control (despite the Denver win, it's not tier 1 in a meta that pays attention to its existence, but nice job Caleb taking advantage of that)
Malamar non-Ultra
Various Spread archetypes (Koko/Lele spread, Passimian, etc.)

Tier 3:
Lost March
BuzzRoc
Celebi+Venusaur TT (both attacking and Vileplume Stall)

This is just off the top of my head, there's probably others, but most of the competitive decks I see are one of tier 1 or tier 2. All of the tier 3 have major problems against one or more Tier 1 decks, but are otherwise interesting.
Thanks to everyone that's replied so far, it's interesting to see the changes talked about so far! Has expanded not really changed then?
 

AngryBokoblin

Guzzlord is fun
Member
Wouldn't everything fall apart after the rotation this summer? Since Marshadow is BUS and all, I assume necromar decks will fall out of favor?
I think that it will survive rotation.
I haven't tested it but I have 2 ideas:
1) Elm/P. Comm
2) Electromagnetic Radar/ Dedenne GX/ P. Comm

It'll survive more than most other decks, that's for sure.
 

snoopy369

Aspiring Trainer
Advanced Member
Member
Thanks to everyone that's replied so far, it's interesting to see the changes talked about so far! Has expanded not really changed then?

Expanded has changed some; certainly major decks still exist, Seismitoad, Archie's Blastoise, Zoroark everything, but due to some bans from the format (like Lusamine and Delinquent) there are definitely some significant differences now, and the [strike]power creep[/strike] addition of Tag Teams makes a pretty big difference - PikaZek is very much a thing in Expanded, and undoubtedly Reshizard will make an appearance also; they're fast enough even in Standard, in Expanded with things like Max Elixir they're insanely fast and quite consistent.
 

Sharkrai

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I think that it will survive rotation.
I haven't tested it but I have 2 ideas:
1) Elm/P. Comm
2) Electromagnetic Radar/ Dedenne GX/ P. Comm

It'll survive more than most other decks, that's for sure.
So would you just swap out the marshadow-gx for more necrozma then?
 

Sharkrai

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Expanded has changed some; certainly major decks still exist, Seismitoad, Archie's Blastoise, Zoroark everything, but due to some bans from the format (like Lusamine and Delinquent) there are definitely some significant differences now, and the [strike]power creep[/strike] addition of Tag Teams makes a pretty big difference - PikaZek is very much a thing in Expanded, and undoubtedly Reshizard will make an appearance also; they're fast enough even in Standard, in Expanded with things like Max Elixir they're insanely fast and quite consistent.
So the power creep is shifting everything more towards recent sets, but with all the great expanded trainers?
 
Top