Creatures Reveals TCG's New Focus on Five Weaknesses, Dragon Likely Removed

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Senorsmith Aspiring Trainer
    Senorsmith

    Member

    If they remove dragon type cards, then I will probably sit out on the swsd series of cards. Breaks my heart...
     


  2. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    No.

    The TCG still adheres to Dexit, which puts a huge question mark on the entire timespan of Pokemon development. If Dexit was a last-second decision, then the development time for Pokemon TCG sets must be extremely low OR it got reshuffled.
     
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  3. Mimikeon Aspiring Trainer
    Mimikeon

    Member

    But it's a dumb word, especially since it's born from entitlement.

    Also, of course it wasn't a last minute decision. No idea why you're thinking that.
     
  4. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    There is no such thing. Consumers are entitled to a good and finished product. Stop playing activist for a multi-billion company.
    Because it was obviously a last-second decision.
    Regardless, the development phase had to adhere to that decision, which means it couldn't be longer than maybe a year.
     
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  5. Skeleton Liar サーナ~
    Skeleton Liar

    Member

    I was thinking about it, and I wondered if this simplification of weaknesses would lead to changes in the approach to deck building and match ups. But aside from potentially increasing match ups devolving into a mainly one-sided fight, it doesn't seem all that different? Maybe this could make it easier to tech in one of those five types? I don't know. I guess we'll see.

    Retroactively, I do find it kind of amusing how in the BW era, Creatures kicked open the door and were like, "DRAGON TYPE IS HERE, AND IT'S AWESOME!!" They had two sets back to back introducing them (one set being mini). And then they added Fairy type because that one of the major new things in X&Y. And it turns out neither mattered several years later. lol

    On a personal level, I think my biggest takeaway from SwSh's typing changes is that there will finally be a Psychic type Gardevoir card again. (And presumably more thereafter.) Aside from the dual type Mega EX, there hasn't been a Psychic type Gardevoir card since Legendary Treasures, in the BW era in 2013.
     
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  6. Mimikeon Aspiring Trainer
    Mimikeon

    Member

    You can have a good and finished product without all of the Pokemon. I'm not saying the SwSh is good, but "Dexit" is the least of its problems, especially now that more are being added. You guys should have expected cuts to happen eventually. Including formes we're at over 1000 now, and that's not sustainable unless they keep extending development times, which sadly isn't even an option because of stuff like the TCG. And either way, the number of people saying that TPC should have made Home free is entitlement in its purest form.

    Do you know what "last minute" means? Explain your reasoning.
     
  7. GM DracLord Shadow of Death
    GM DracLord

    Member

    I don't know why must Psychic type resist to fighting, they should have stay with no resist to make it different from ghost type

    Need more water weakness (rock or ground should move)

    If the above changes apply in the future, and change bug weak away from fire, atleast we could somehow see all the type being unique to certain extend
     
  8. Skeleton Liar サーナ~
    Skeleton Liar

    Member

    Well, this got super off topic. But to put my two cents into this (again), I've yet to see any convincing argument FOR the complete removal of Pokemon in SwSh. And the "entitled gamer" angle is probably the single laziest excuse to defend bad decisions in video games. Like Yaginku said, the consumer absolutely IS entitled to a complete product. We pay our hard earned money to whatever video game company, in return for a good, complete product. It's plain and simple. Totally removing half the Pokemon from SwSh--not just being uncatchable in the region, like in previous games--is not complete. If you cut something from a whole, that whole is not complete. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for fans to complain about this; we're not wrong in voicing our displeasure. And if the cut doesn't affect someone's enjoyment of the game, that's great too; they're not wrong either. I want to make all of that very clear. This "entitled gamer" excuse is complete garbage. (Your comment about people wanting Home to be free is debatable, though. On one hand, I get it, especially given all of the other grievances with SwSh. But on the other, I think it's reasonable for there to be some sort of small fee.)

    But to address the bolded part of what you said about expecting cuts because it's too much work without enough time, that argument is null and void in this day and age for video games when patches exist. Now let's just ignore the fact that we were told that they were remaking the models from scratch, only to be proven that most wire frames are identical to what was used in XY and SM, with some having minor changes (which is virtually impossible to coincidentally recreate an identical complex wire frame). Let's say TPC just flat out told us that in order to release SwSh as scheduled, half the Pokemon will not be included because of time constraints, and they're working on completely remaking high res textures for previous Pokemon (because they future-proofed the models when they made them for 3DS), on top of making the new Pokemon, characters, etc. But in the future, the remaining Pokemon will be added through patches. Any reasonable person would understand that, and the development team doesn't have the pressure of cramming all of the Pokemon models into their schedule by release date. Sure, it would still be a bummer if your favorite Pokemon wasn't initially in the base game, but most people would be happy, I guarantee you.

    Buuuuut that's not how it was handled. It was handled so poorly, it really just came off as stubborn excuses for why more Pokemon will not be added. (Which making excuses is actually odd for a Japanese company to do.) And now that we know more old Pokemon are being added through DLC, it feels more like a knee-jerk reaction to the backlash. Those last few sentences were more of my opinion, but the point about the amount time it takes for the development team to make all of the Pokemon is a simple solution that needed to be communicated to the fans. It's absolutely not "unsustainable" if some are initially included in the base, with the rest being added later. And if there's an argument about that cutting into development time of future games, that would be incorrect because Junichi Masuda or whoever did say that these missing Pokemon (maybe not all of them) would be in future games. So if those models would have been worked on after SwSh anyway, how could adding these Pokemon into SwSh later cut into development time?

    Once again, more long-winded than intended. Though, back on topic, Jake was just using "Dexit" as an easy way to say that the TCG doesn't need to adhere to the bone-headed decision to remove half the Pokemon in SwSh. Dragon type's absence from 2 sets is an oddity, so let's just get on with it and have any pure Dragon type in the TCG to solve this mystery. (Personally, I can wait to find out.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  9. Mimikeon Aspiring Trainer
    Mimikeon

    Member

    I'm just going to say that my point is that, in general, it was going to happen eventually. The writing was on the wall when the National Dex was removed in SM. SwSh didn't do enough to justify it though, I don't deny that. And I definitely agree that they explained it completely wrong; GF's PR as always been hot garbage. I wish people would stop blaming the devs though when it's the fault of how the IP in general is handled. That's the "entitled" part, as I'm sure that even if it were the best Pokemon game ever otherwise and with new models people would still say getting all Pokemon should have been a priority. Also, the fact that you're complaining about them possibly reacting to the feedback is just weird...

    More on topic though, the first few sets focusing on the regional dex isn't anything new. It has nothing to do with "Dexit." And there are very few pure Dragons in the Galar Dex. Dragon also tends to be the least represented type in general.
     
  10. Nyora A Cat
    Nyora

    Member

    If Dragon is removed, I wonder if it'll revert back to colorless or become a different type. I think reverting it to colorless becomes quite pointless as then they'd still probably just give it colorless weakness to represent dragon weakness, which doesnt do anything that makes sense with their statement. I expect Dragon to get changed to Fire and gain a Water weakness, as they have a weakness to Ice in the games and Ice is represented by Water in the card game.
     
  11. bunnybird12 Don't be sad- be hoppy!
    bunnybird12

    Member

    Silvally GX has memory cards that can hit each of the 5 weaknesses, plus psychic (but the psychic and fighting memories are in expanded). Might be relevant.
     
  12. DaLoc Aspiring Trainer
    DaLoc

    Member

    but playing against weakness is awful and this change will make that occur more often.
     
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  13. Zuty Aspiring Trainer
    Zuty

    Member

    I signed up just so I could comment on this.

    I am disgusted and appalled by this. What a lazy and unprofessional design choice. You're removing an established element of the game that has been around for over seven years now to make the game more simplified instead of working with these elements instead. Where does it stop? Why no remove Dark and Metal and roll them into Psychic and Fighting? Why not just simplify it further and round everything down to three types and turn weakness into a rock-paper-scissors game?

    In making the game more "rebalanced" to appease the younger demographic of players who just buy the cards because they look cool, they are alienating all their other demographics by creating a bland game.

    And this is just the writing in the wall. The game will only get worse from here with even more poor and lazy design choices, because TPCi knows they will still have sorry saps who will continue to shell out money no matter what. I am disgusted with the way things are heading and as someone who has been playing casually since Base set it breaks my heart to see this game make such great strides recently only to move backwards once we got to this generation.
     
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  14. AshCo HELLO THERE OLD CHUM!
    AshCo

    Member

    My only concern is whether or not the game is going to become a huge rock-paper-scissors fest. Now, I'm no expert on the TCG, don't get me wrong, but at least from what I can assume, if you rely TOO much on weakness, that's what the game could end up becoming. I would hope to sort of balance this out in a way we can have a diverse meta with decks that can do well regardless-weakness being just a bonus of sorts even if it's a little bit more condensed to just the small amount of them-and not an autoloss situation.

    It's definitely amusing that Dragon and Fairy have kinda just become irrelevant now despite them being major new things to the game that they advertised pretty heavily, mainly Dragons. (Hell, I started around XY base and fairies still feel new to me, lol).

    It'll be interesting seeing a lot of those fairy types now as Psychics. Like, it's definitely going to be odd seeing a Psychic Clefairy or something like that. The thing that honestly bums me out the most about this is I really liked the colors they had for Dragon and Fairy cards, especially back in the EX days. Like the old Dragon M Ray or the M Charizard X always looked good with that body, and the shade of pink they used for fairies was a really nice one too. Gonna miss that.

    Of course, that's all assuming Dragon IS gone. I'm still going to hold my breath since they never formally announced it's going away, but if it is, RIP Dragons, I loved you you wonderful mess of a type.

    The word Dexit? Ahh, but Dexit was such an important part of the Dexit saga of 2019-the year of the Dexit. I mean, do you remember when Dexit was announced? People took to the streets at the revelation of Dexit! Ahh, Dexit Dexit Dexit... What a time.

    But in all seriousness, no, not gonna stop using it until they actually fix the issues it caused, sorry. Nobody's entitled to want better from a franchise they love.
     
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  15. MilesEX Aspiring Trainer
    MilesEX

    Member

    No, you're entitled. You don't get to have an opinion on what the creatives want to do with their product. You get to chose whether you buy it or not.

    Obviously, why? Because you say so?
     
  16. Mimikeon Aspiring Trainer
    Mimikeon

    Member

    The thing is that most people want reparations at this point more than wanting "better." I'm just seeing people wanting free stuff to make up for what was done more than anything else, and expect a company to shift focus from making money to to making people happy just because "they have enough money already." I just don't like living in a fantasy world. And idk, if a product isn't doing what I want I just don't buy it. There are plenty of other video games and card games to play.
     
  17. JakeTheGearHeart Aspiring Trainer
    JakeTheGearHeart

    Member

    Why? It's not like they'll be removing dragons from the game. They'll just be a different type.
     
  18. Skeleton Liar サーナ~
    Skeleton Liar

    Member

    And to that point, I'm saying there is a simple solution. As solution that takes time, sure, but a solution none-the-less. And I totally agree with wishing people would stop blaming the developers for the issues. It's just that "entitled" isn't the word. I think either "ignorant" or just flat out "stupid" is more apt, if anyone truly thinks that. (Like the people raging about Byleth being the latest DLC character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. You're free to not like the choice, but to go so far as to say that Sakurai should be fired is stupidity to the highest degree. But not entitled.) Despite some short comings, oddities, and archaic choices with other aspects of the games, from what I've seen, Sword and Shield look and play* just fine! (*Granted, I haven't played either game. I'm just saying, I don't recall there being anything gamebreakingly bad--other than online stuff being wonky, which is an issue across the board for the Switch.) I can absolutely see the effort within the restraints put into the games by the development team. Unfortunately, it's overshadowed by the bad, and everything was put underneath a microscope once they said Pokemon were cut for better animations.

    And yes, I think fans really would expect all of the Pokemon even if they made the best Pokemon game ever with amazing graphics, but still cut half the Pokemon. Because again, even though it takes time, adding the rest into the game later is totally viable. And expecting these Pokemon to be added--but not catchable--for free isn't unreasonable or entitled from fans either, since all Pokemon should be available anyway. For this hypothetical aspect, TPC would have made a ton of money just on these games alone (we know this because that actually happened, despite all the backlash). From those sales, they earned enough to allow more time for the developers to continue making the missing Pokemon models. Besides, that also helps future-proof the series (again).

    I'm sorry if my comment about TPC reacting to the feedback by adding missing Pokemon seemed like a complaint. It wasn't meant to be. I just didn't explain that it seemed more ironic that they were so adamant about not adding Pokemon later, then when they announced that some would be back in the DLC, it seemed like, "Surprise! Just kidding!" Saying it was a knee-jerk reaction just further implied that the decision to exclude half the Pokemon was a mistake. That being said, I really am in favor of the passes! They changed my outlook of the games from a firm (though reluctant) "No, I am not buying either of these games" to a cautiously optimistic "I might buy one of these games."

    You're right about starting sets focusing on the Regional Dex. But I think by mentioning "Dexit," it was just an easier way of saying, "Forget about sticking to the Regional Dex--just give us a sign! Any sign!" Personally, if Dragon type is completely removed, I think they'll just be reverted back to being Colorless again.
     
  19. JakeTheGearHeart Aspiring Trainer
    JakeTheGearHeart

    Member

    No lol. It's a perfect description of what happened.
     
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  20. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    Imagine thinking this unironically.
     
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