'Chilling Reign' Ban List Announcement, Rule Box Clarification!

Bongooo

Eternatus VMAX is Mega Rayquaza's goth phase
Member
So path to the peak will turn off the abilities of breaks and prism stars. This doesn't seem right. I know there aren't too many relevant breaks or prism stars anymore, but if the rule box thing existed at the beginning of sun and moon, it wouldn't feel right. Could you imagine if choice band did 30 more damage to greninja break?
 

ipwns

Aspiring Trainer
Member
So path to the peak will turn off the abilities of breaks and prism stars. This doesn't seem right. I know there aren't too many relevant breaks or prism stars anymore, but if the rule box thing existed at the beginning of sun and moon, it wouldn't feel right. Could you imagine if choice band did 30 more damage to greninja break?
But it didn't exist. Breaks literally say break evolution rule and it's in a box.
 

Nos

Aspiring Trainer
Member
So path to the peak will turn off the abilities of breaks and prism stars. This doesn't seem right. I know there aren't too many relevant breaks or prism stars anymore, but if the rule box thing existed at the beginning of sun and moon, it wouldn't feel right. Could you imagine if choice band did 30 more damage to greninja break?
yeahhh... The fact that Prism Stars and Breaks are balanced by their difficulty of getting into play and not because they're obscenely powerful makes them an odd choice for these kinds of effects. I don't see how something like Carbink Break is any more powerful than your standard Stage 1 Pokemon. And while Prism Stars are a lot stronger than usual basics, you only get one. I can sort of see their reasoning for Prism Stars, but not Breaks. I think they should have just grouped multi-prize pokemon together, instead of ones with rule boxes
 

Bongooo

Eternatus VMAX is Mega Rayquaza's goth phase
Member
I find it funny how megas and EX's are listed separately but all megas are EX
 

LightYearLiam

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I think they were more concerned with making a simple wording that can include all naturally multiprize Pokemon, even if it includes some non-multiprize Pokemon, than with maintaining balance with cards that will either soon rotate out of Standard or have already rotated out long ago (and in the latter's case aren't necessarily particularly relevant in Expanded). I sort of understand where they're coming from because you can't just refer to Pokemon who give up multiple prizes because that would include all your opponent's Pokemon if you used Altered Creation, for example. And if you then tried to clarify that it's only Pokemon who naturally give up more than one prize, that would probably take a lot more text. To be honest, it sort of seems like maybe they should have just used the "EX" name indefinitely, then they wouldn't have to deal with this.
 

fleshrum

April in Kalos...
Member
I thought this was pretty clear, but good to clarify.

Now can we collectively make this into something that people USE? Between the people on this website surely it can be done. Fan formats have a strong history.

I'm always down for a few rounds of expanded or unlimited "outside the box."

I find it funny how megas and EX's are listed separately but all megas are EX
Conspiracy time...
 

DMYSYS

DUMMY SYSTEM
Member
This ruling limits their options for introducing future mechanics.


BREAK cards and Prism Star cards were released during the last third/final quarter of the EX and GX eras, respectively, and weren't necessarily meant to replace those mechanics so much as introduce some variety. Well, BREAK was presented as a potential counter to EX cards, but I don't think that ever panned out. As others have noted, they have their own drawbacks in how you can get them into play/fit them into a deck, which balanced them in and of themselves.


This means Prism Star-like "one-per-deck" and BREAK-like "counter-meta" mechanics are necessarily going to have built-in power creep if they ever show up again, because they're now by default part of a subclass that many Trainer cards ignore in deck searches, opponent attacks do more damage against, etc.
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
So path to the peak will turn off the abilities of breaks and prism stars. This doesn't seem right. I know there aren't too many relevant breaks or prism stars anymore, but if the rule box thing existed at the beginning of sun and moon, it wouldn't feel right. Could you imagine if choice band did 30 more damage to greninja break?
That’s exactly why TPCI is still printing cards with effects that say “Vs and GXs”... they say Vs and GXs when they mean Multiprize Pokémon and Rule Box when they mean anything with a rule box gimmick.
Still, they should probably make a second ruling. Jabberwock used “Multiprize” for his custom Team Plasma set, and I think that would work great, although TPCI would have to clarify what Multiprize Pokémon means if they ever print anything like that on a card just because it is better to define the obvious than to assume that it is obvious to everyone.
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
No Pokémon before generation five had abilities (it was Pokémon Powers, then Poké Powers and Poké Bodies) so it wouldn't matter either way.
Unless you used Elite Format rules where Abilities Count as Poke-Bodies AND Poké-Powers but Poké-Powers refer to “optional” Abilities and Poké-Bodies refer to “non-optional” (the majority of which are always active while in play) Abilities.
 

JakeTheGearHeart

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Unless you used Elite Format rules where Abilities Count as Poke-Bodies AND Poké-Powers but Poké-Powers refer to “optional” Abilities and Poké-Bodies refer to “non-optional” (the majority of which are always active while in play) Abilities.
In that case the players have the power to choose whether or not Lv. Xs and old EXs count as rule box Pokémon.
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
Incorrect, both Mega Lopbunny and Mega Sableye featured on Tag Team GX cards

But those are also GX's, which is the same thing

You're both right. Patchamp is correct from the perspective of naming and cosmetics, while Bongoo is correct from a mechanical point of view. Mega Pokemon are mechanically defined by two features... "M", which is a symbol, and "Mega", which is an evolutionary phase, and I'm pretty sure for the most part mechanics referred to "Mega" over "M." Regardless, the Tag Team GXs have "Mega" in their NAMES, but not in their stages, nor do they have the "M" symbol, so mechanically they aren't Mega Pokémon. And yet the Sableye and Lopuny on the cards are undoubtedly in their mega forms. It just depends on whether you're referring to mechanics or not.
Its fortunate, however, that Pokémon with "Mega" in their names aren't automatically Mega Pokémon. Imagine what would happen to Meganium! :)
 

Diego Lima

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I thought that went without saying, but ok. Although I agree with the sentiment that Breaks and Prism shouldn't be affected, I understand why they chose to streamline it, plus, it's not like Breaks see any play in expanded for that to make any difference in that sense, so... I would've liked to see the already suggested "multiprize" approach though, at this point it's pretty safe to assume that the pattern is like "multiprizers come first, then some different single prize gimmick later", so stuff affecting only the first would be nice. Would the "multiprize" thing be too clunky to deal with?
 

MagnaDrake

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I think BREAK and Prism Star getting hit by PttP is an unlucky side effect from having a Standard-focused design. Though personally, I feel they'd be able to make Rule Box single-prizers with more powerful abilities, if Creatures Inc. feel like it, precisely because PttP exists.
 
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