Fun Buffing Evolutions In Competitive Play

MarshalBry

MarshalBry

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Heyo, I was thinking and wondered what people thought Pokémon could do to make evolutionary Pokémon less weak as big basics are super viable/speedy in comparison. I had a few ideas myself:

Fire Stone - Pokémon Tool (would include variations for the other types)
The {R} Pokémon this Tool is attached to (excluding Pokémon-EX) can evolve the turn it comes into play (it cannot evolve during your first turn). When the {R} Pokémon this tool is attached to (excluding Pokémon-EX) becomes a BREAK Evolution, you may return this card to your hand.
Click to expand...
Evolution Specs - Pokémon Tool
If the Pokémon this Tool is attached to (excluding Pokémon-EX) would be Knocked Out by any effect of your opponent's attacks or abilities, you may choose not to Knock Out this Pokémon (your opponent still takes a prize card). If you do, you may play as many cards as you like from your hand to evolve this Pokémon, then discard this card. This Pokémon can still evolve during your next turn if it evolves through the effect of this card.
Click to expand...
Genetic Energy - Special Energy
When this card is attached to an Evolved Pokémon, this card provides the same energy as the type of the Pokémon it is attached to (but can only provide 1 of any Energy at a time), and prevents all effects of your opponent's attacks (except damage) done to that Pokémon by your opponent's Pokémon-EX.
Click to expand...

Of course better evolution cards such as the new Frogadier from BREAKpoint are fantastic things too. I'm curious to see what ideas others have / have had also.
 
I'm not sure if I want to see too much Trainer influence in evolving cards. In the core of the VG, evolving is the work a player puts in - items don't really have all too much to do. Evolution Specs in particular is a bit odd and sorta feels like its stretching the boundaries a little. Genetic Energy is also pretty powerful as it is Rainbow Energy with an extra effect, not a drawback.

To make evolutions viable, I honestly think the only thing PCL should do is stop giving so much support to EXs and giving easy-to-set-up low-energy attacks to EXs and Megas.
 
The BREAK mechanic is an attempt to buff evolution. One issue with evolution is that in most cases only the final form is viable. BREAK is an evolution on an already viable card (and you get to use the same abilities/attacks).

Maybe we could see more middle forms that are worthwhile. Some of these ideas they have for Stage 1, maybe put them on a middle form instead with the Stage 2 evolution being seen as a bonus. Not exactly the focus of the deck, but something you could run 1-2 copies of as a bonus. Kind of like how you could run an Electross in Eels.
 
I'm going to echo and expand upon what @bbninjas and @Pinecone stated.

We have a tremendous amount of acceleration in the game right now; the only thing I recall being like it is the days when the Standard Format (the default format for organized play) was the same as the Unlimited Format (all sets allowed). We have vast amounts of draw power which in turn makes it easy to get the search, the Energy acceleration, the disruption, etc. that our decks need. Some of the best decks are utterly dependent upon this, but most of this support just take something good and make it even better. On the individual card level, however... well think of what happens to this game if suddenly Double Colorless Energy were to be banned? Actually better idea... what if it had never been reprinted, as if it disappeared tomorrow there would be pressure for many decks just to find a "patch" to stay viable, instead of everyone having to start over again.

We have many Pokémon that cover a variety of roles in decks and importantly, do it as well or better than their contemporaries. When your opening Pokémon doubles as your main attacker, that saves deck space leaving room for more cards and... that is a far more important thing than it may seem. Right now, we big Basic Pokémon (EX or otherwise), Mega Evolutions, a few gimmick Pokémon and then Evolutions that fake being Basics due to Evolution acceleration as the entirety of the competitive format. Okay, plus a few exceptions like Crobat (PHF). The reason Crobat is an exception though is because the designers have made it too easy to be a Basic even if all other things were equal for Evolutions. A Stage 1 needs two cards to hit the field, a Stage 2 needs three cards. We've seen what happens when we try to reduce the amount of cards needed and/or the amount of time needed: it doesn't truly fix anything, usually we just get a few different "broken" decks on top.

So how about we dial back Basic Pokémon in terms of speed. Not HP. Not "power", just speed. Well, maybe a little bit on power as well, but we'll apply similar guidelines across the board. ;) Make it so that I need an opening Pokémon; if I run a big, Basic as my main attacker, I'll need something else opening for it, or else said main attacker will just sit there doing nothing except maybe taking damage while I power it up. Now make Evolving Pokémon worthwhile. They should not be on par with fully Evolved Pokémon - a big issue with many Evolving Pokémon-EX, but they should contribute to the value of the entire line. Combine it all, and now your Stage 2 line contains a twice Evolving Basic that doubles as an opener. How about your Stage 1 contains a coming-into-play Ability on par with a Supporter. Now after that you hit your Stage 2 and its ready about as fast as the big, non-Evolving Basic attacker was.
 
What's sure is that Pokemon is great at addressing problematic mechanics with each released set. What I agree with is a trainer card which somehow makes Break cards more playable. They've made great effort to nerf EX pokemon with cards like Regice and Faded Town, they even countered Pyroar FFI with things like M Manectric EX. Even Vespiquen has met it's match with Entei + Assault Vest or say Jirachi Promo. They've made a few mistakes not anticipating the synergy between say Seismitoad EX / Shaymin EX / Lysandre's Trump Card and Forest of Giant Plants / Shiftry NXD but they do stay on top of the meta and try to release competing strategies without too much power creep. A strong play in this meta is non EX decks, forcing a 6 KO game, something to buff those who choose to play evolving pokemon over EX would really go a long way.
Fighting Spirit Belt is likely to be used by decks like Night March and Entei / Charizard over Mega Evolution decks (obviously). that doesn't help evolvers, but it does make pokemon-EX who predate the whole Mega evolution craze be more playable against Megas, but hey, the rerelease of Garbotoxin means Startling Megaphone is going to ruin all that. It won't change the fact that the average pokemon EX is going to have a terrible first attack and questionably restrictive power requirement for it's second attack since it's basically useless until mega evolved.
Getting a Break into play in a timely fashion is a challenge that seems to be well worth the reward in the case of say Raticate, Zoroark and Raichu something that makes them more playable would be excellent for the Metam, offering an alternative to the 2 prize KO.
I love the idea of stage 1's being more useful. In the case of Haunter BKT, I think they might have half realized this same thing. . . I have high hopes for Frogadier, but I don't know how good or bad it will work.
 
fr33land said:
What's sure is that Pokemon is great at addressing problematic mechanics with each released set.
Click to expand...
One could argue that if PCL didn't print a highly powerful card every set in the first place, they wouldn't need to "fix" it in the next set. Also, each set they generally release a card more powerful than the most powerful card in the previous set, meaning each set power creeps up.
 
I agree. .
they are trying make money, no mistake. By creating the must have card and controlling scarcity they are creating demand. . . to be sure, part of that is making the counter to the last OP card, the new one is the must have card. It's inevitable (power creep), but looking at it realistically they are releasing 170 HP EX pokemon, that is not an unrealistic OHKO number, given that the average basic regular pokemon (worth playing) is now around 130 HP. Now if basics for stage 2's and so on were more than 60 HP, that would change the game significantly, especially since stage 2's are now around 150 HP. A tool that made regular pokemon that same 40 HP across all stages would make a huge difference. Fighting Spirit Belt might make Stage 1's and 2's playable beside EX pokemon since the basics might be able to hang tough. . . having, say 90-100 HP.
Anyways, it's my contention that the average pokemon EX sucks by comparison to stage 1's 2's and Break Pokemon, all that needs to happen is to buff their stage 1's and basics somewhat.
 
Last edited:
fr33land said:
I agree. .
they are trying make money, no mistake.
Click to expand...

Not really the same thing unless the bulk of sales are coming from people buying boosters to trying to pull the "good stuff" either to keep or sell/trade. Though Pokémon sells well through the hobby channel, it is a powerhouse through the retail channel. I don't think a lot of serious players are getting the bulk of their boosters through stores like Wal-Mart, Target, etc. I think those are mostly sales to extremely casual players and/or collectors... to the point where they might not qualify as either because they just get the occasional booster pack in place of a Pokémon toy, whether they are a kid or a nostalgic adult.

Technically none of us are buying from TPCi, because whatever we get is at least one sale removed. Well, maybe since I haven't been paying attention to such things they do sell direct now, but yeah those would be the only sales that really need to be driven by the next "must run" card. Some of us find how the game is being managed a real turn off. Doesn't matter much since I haven't had the cash for a while now, but I don't buy cards anymore, I play via the PTCGO. Unless I become so good that I can win and win a lot at events, it is just too high a cost for too little back.

If they straighten up and look like they want a balanced metagame, where clearly we aren't being spoon fed powerful cards only to get their counter in the next set or two, then I might start recommending Pokémon again. Because if they release something and need to release a counter to it later, either it was unbalanced when first released or its unbalanced now that is has been nerfed (just in the opposite direction).
 
Ha!
Agree, the Pokemon Company profits nothing from the secondary market, where the discretionary spending of committed players goes.
Booster packs are essentially lottery tickets. Ironically cards that are or were only common command crzy prices on the secondary market. . . Battle Compressor is worth 5 bucks???
It's almost worth the gamble. . . never know, might pull a VS Seeker or a Head Ringer.
I don't know I have a point or anything.
Maybe it's simply incompetence and there is no design whatsoever, just Rock-Paper-Scissors-Spock-Ninjas-Dynamite-ad nauseam.
 
bbninjas said:
One could argue that if PCL didn't print a highly powerful card every set in the first place, they wouldn't need to "fix" it in the next set. Also, each set they generally release a card more powerful than the most powerful card in the previous set, meaning each set power creeps up.
Click to expand...

This is unfortunate as PCL doesn't need to power creep each set to make the set worth buying and competitively viable, there are other options.

Power creep is just the easiest method for a card company putting out 4 sets a year indefinitely. Some power creep is OK and natural, but only if the other options are thrown in as well. Other options include having deck counters that feel natural in the game, supplementing past and future decks within a set, and coming up with new and interesting deck ideas that are competitive, but not exactly more powerful. PCL hasn't demonstrated as much foresight as we should expect, just look at Lysandre's Trump Card.
 
We don't have power creep right now, we have power leap. Let us use Lysandre's Trump Card as the example again, simply because as a banned card it is the least controversial choice. Prior to it, the most abundant Supporter that could shuffle cards from the discard back into the deck was Flower Shop Lady and/or Palmer's Contribution. She returned three basic Energy and three Pokémon to the deck, while he shuffled only five cards back but they could be Pokémon, basic Energy cards, or a combination of the two.

Yes there was one that affected your entire discard pile, but it was a "Normal Trainer" (Item before we had that term) known as Trash Exchange and it still had a cost: it had you count your discard pile (before putting Trash Exchange into it), then combine your discard pile with your deck, shuffle, and discard a number of cards off the top equal to how many you just shuffled in from the discard pile (then Trash Exchange is put into the discard pile, its actions complete). Plus that existed in the time before Supporters, originally introduced while the Base Set was still legal so:

  • Computer Search that wasn't an Ace Spec
  • Item Finder, which was Dowsing Machine if it wasn't an Ace Spec
  • Bill as a "normal Trainer" (Item)
  • Gust of Wind, which is Lysandre as an Item
  • Energy Removal, which is Crushing Hammer without a coin flip
  • Super Energy Removal, which had you discard an Energy from one of your Pokémon to discard two Energy cards from one of your opponent's Pokémon (no modern equivalent)
  • Professor Oak, which is Professor Juniper/Professor Sycamore as a "normal Trainer" (Item)
  • Scoop Up, which is a nerfed AZ as it only bounces the Basic Pokémon, but in a format dominated by Basic Pokémon with low Energy attacks, and of course, as a "normal Trainer" (Item)
So while mass recycling was handy, you had Item Finder to get back specific Trainers and a lot to lose in shuffling your entire deck back in.

So yeah... even new items like Sacred Ash and Energy Recycler may not even be power creep since you shuffle more back into your deck than Super Rod (with an effect that has been reprinted under different names for over 15 years) but you are restricted to one card type. Oh yeah, and when it comes to reclaiming Special Energy cards, that has been crazy difficult for most of the game. Some decks had it easier than others, but for generic usage I think the best we've had have been Energy Charge/Power Charge, which require a coin flip to shuffle two Energy cards from discard to deck.
 
There isn't any real way to buff them mid format and keep the 'balance' of other cards. Right now, we have broken Basics, Stage 1, Stage 2 and Basic EX cards. Some of these cards even BREAK evolve, just like we have garbage Basics, Stage 1, Stage 2 and Basic EX cards, some with breaks. The problem is the game turned into stage 1/2 Pokemon supporting EX Pokemon because attack stage 2 Pokemon require too many resources and losing one could hurt the player. considering all the hand disruption in the game. Other stage 2 Pokemon just aren't playable and getting them there is very hard since the evolving basics are pretty much 'filler'. The Dragon Exalted Garchomp line is a perfect example of how evolving basics into their final stage should be.

The same is true for a lot of other EX Pokemon. Most just aren't that effective. What they should do is stop printing cards that can nuke boards (except colorless Pokemon) and do some damage control.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top