Blue and Red...Means You're Dead

[Equinox]

Introduction​

I've played Ubers for a long time now, well, not totally. I've been playing on and off here and there, but really, I'm starting to get back into the near dead metagame, and I must say, I've had a lot of success with this team I've made. The name is derived from the combination of Salamence, Kyogre, and Tentacruel, the three pillars of the team. Even if one of them fall though, this doesn't mean the team has been destroyed. Now, let's get on with the team!​

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Changes in Bold​

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At A Glance​

A Closer Look​

Kyogre @ Lum Berry
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

My leader & weather starter, Kyogre! I LOVE this set, literally. It doesn't fear Thunder from Choice Scarf Kyogre, and Choice Specs Kyogre 2HKOs, meaning I can at least easily cripple opposing Kyogres. Palkia can only 2HKO as well, and with all the other threats Kyogre lures in I can easily cripple my foe's team. I chose Hydro Pump over Surf and Scald because I wanted more power with this set, and really, I don't miss that much. Thunder and Ice Beam of course give Kyogre coverage, and will be on almost all Kyogre sets.

Giratina (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 148 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse

I really LOVE this set, especially when used in Conjunction with Kyogre. Kyogre cripples, I can switch, get the CM, if the opponent swaps another free Calm Mind, and do what's necessary from here. Another reason why I love this set is because most people think it's the other CM set, so they'll try and put a status on Giratina, but it's fun to see the surprise of Rest. Sure, most people think mono Dragon is terrible, but this is ubers, where Dragon-types are HIGHLY common, so in reality Dragon Pulse is quite useful.

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw

Thanks to Salamence's huge attack, with Moxie and Choice Scarf, I can clear teams well within late game. Another good mention is Kyogre, again, having the ability to cripple faster revenge killers like Palkia, Zekrom, Reshiram, and other friends, allowing for Salamence to run right on through. Fire Blast is a must on Salamence, like any other revenge killer in Ubers, unless you want to be walled by Steel-types. Earthquake takes care of Dialga, which doesn't fear Outrage. Outrage is the main move, allowing Salamence to put holes into teams easily. Dragon Claw is situational, when Outrage seems too risky.

Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Protect

Tentacruel does a lot of good for my team. With her, I can utilize TS to hit and cripple Groudon and any Pokemon that hasn't been crippled thanks to Thunder Wave. Rapid Spin is a must for any Ubers team, otherwise entry hazards can really pile up and cripple your team. Scald adds a good burn chance, and allows for Tentacruel to not be total Taunt bait. Protect is very useful, and helps me stall out poison, or get back HP for free.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

Ferrothorn is a big priority for Ubers teams. With him, I can switch into the very real and very common threat known as Dragon attacks. Not just that, but I can stack on entry hazards, get back HP with Leech Seed, and stall with Protect. I find Ferrothorn to be a stellar wall, he doesn't afraid of anything and is a great guy. But seriously, Dragons, ExtremeSpeed Arceus, and Kyogre are very common, and if you don't have a Pokemon that can take their hits, than you need to rethink your team, and Ferrothorn plays an important part in being able to take hits.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 212 HP / 80 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psystrike

Mewtwo is usually seen as offensive pivot, a bulky attacker of sorts, but I've made him into something else...Stalltwo. While he isn't so offensive, he can help quell down Substitute Lugia, as well as put a status on him, something Toxic Spikes can't do. Taunt makes sure Rayquaza, Arceus, Giratina-O, etc. can't set up, and also makes sure Dialga, Groudon, Ferrothorn, etc. can't put up Entry hazards. Recover is a must on Stalltwo. Psystrike is my last move, for two reasons: I wanted my Mewtwo to be able to attack, and with Pystrike, I can bluff a Calm Mind set. Two: I didn't want Mewtwo to be total taunt bait as well. 216 Speed makes sure Mewtwo can outspeed Darkrai, which is a huge problem for this team otherwise.

Export:

Spoiler

Kyogre @ Lum Berry
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Giratina (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 148 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw

Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Protect

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 212 HP / 80 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psystrike

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Threat List​

Color key:​

- Minor threat (defensive Pokemon, Pokemon that can sometimes be quite a threat; something like Unaware Quagsire, etc.) -
- Medium threat (can take some turns to properly be a threat, can at times be speedy attackers like Latios) -
- Major threat (can easily take my team down, is a bad problem) -
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Darkrai - If I can't cripple him with Kyogre, KO him with Salamence or Taunt him away with Mewtwo, he is highly dangerous.

 

[grantm1999]

It doesn't seem too good to be choiced into FIre Blast in rain to me... Maybe you could have Focus Blast over Psystrike on Mewtwo to counter Ferrothorn instead? If you do that then Salamence could have Hydro Pump over Fire Blast which is more powerful in rain.

 

[Equinox]

Fire Blast will KO regardless, Palkia can even KO in rain. Hydro Pump doesn't hit anything noticeable either.

 

[Equinox]

Come on, get in on some of this rating action!

 

[Chillarmy]

Teehee the title rhymes.

I feel like Arceus would fill the role of a stallbreaker better than Mewtwo due to more overall bulk. While Mewtwo can use Taunt, Arceus can simply Roar away boosts. Also, Arceus can use Stealth Rock, allowing Ferrothorn to set up Spikes and giving your team more residual damage. I'd recommend a st of Recover/Stealth Rock/Roar/Focus Blast would do best, but the coverage move is up to you. You may want to use Arceus Fighting to better tank Darkrai's hits.

 

[Equinox]

Teehee the title rhymes.

I feel like Arceus would fill the role of a stallbreaker better than Mewtwo due to more overall bulk. While Mewtwo can use Taunt, Arceus can simply Roar away boosts. Also, Arceus can use Stealth Rock, allowing Ferrothorn to set up Spikes and giving your team more residual damage. I'd recommend a st of Recover/Stealth Rock/Roar/Focus Blast would do best, but the coverage move is up to you. You may want to use Arceus Fighting to better tank Darkrai's hits.

Thanks for the rate...mate!

But yeah, I was thinking of changing a Mon to Arceus (just not Stalltwo). To be honest I was thinking of changing Salamence, and to the more offensive Arceus-Normal. It'd certainly help make way, and Stalltwo helps me handle Lugia better. Although I might consider changing even Arceus-Normal to Fighting, or Dark, or something, as Arceus-Ghost has been a tad painful to deal with :/

 

[King Arceus]

First of all I would never recommend Hydro Pump on Kyogre. Too many Pokemon have Pressure to make it work well enough. I can't figure out anything new you'd be able to OHKO or 2HKO by running Hydro Pump over Surf. Moves with 8 PP as the maximum really need to get OHKOs, not be 2HKOs or you will run out of PP in the long run.

It doesn't fear Thunder from Choice Scarf Kyogre, and Choice Specs Kyogre 2HKOs, meaning I can at least easily cripple opposing Kyogres.

I beg to differ. Even Choice Scarf Kyogre can 2HKO with Thunder so it fears it. Specs can do quite a number on your Kyogre as well, up to 95% with a single hit. That is quite a bit hit you are taking just to paralyze it. I'd suggest handling foe Kyogre with Ferrothorn instead. You'd need to take out either Leech Seed or Protect to do this and put on Thunder Wave. Ferrothorn can take 2 Surfs from Specs and still survive. Any other Kyogre set doesn't have a chance at KO'ing it.

I'm a bit puzzled at the EVs on Giratina. Could you explain how you came up with them? I still would highly recommend changing the Giratina set. Right now Extreme Killer Arceus does a number on your team. Ferrothorn is the only safe thing you have against it. Swapping one of Giratina's moves for Will-O-Wisp would help tremendously with this problem because it can actually survive a +2 Shadow Claw. It can survive a +4 Shadow Claw even if Arceus is holding Leftovers and not Life Orb.

Thanks to Salamence's huge attack, with Moxie and Choice Scarf, I can clear teams well within late game. Another good mention is Kyogre, again, having the ability to cripple faster revenge killers like Palkia, Zekrom, Reshiram, and other friends, allowing for Salamence to run right on through. Fire Blast is a must on Salamence, like any other revenge killer in Ubers, unless you want to be walled by Steel-types. Earthquake takes care of Dialga, which doesn't fear Outrage. Outrage is the main move, allowing Salamence to put holes into teams easily. Dragon Claw is situational, when Outrage seems too risky.

Of the Pokemon you specifically mentioned, only Palkia actually outpaces Salamence; the others you listed only have a base 90 Speed compared to Salamence's 100. The first thing I need to mention is you are running Fire Blast on it when it's Special Attack is only moderate and not the levels of Palkia while it is on a rain team. The only two things you can actually damage decently are Ferrothorn, which still can make Salamence useless after it survives then Thunder Waves back, and Forretress. Draco Meteor would be a much better choice in the set because while you still won't be able to switch moves, the fact that Salamence is used as a hit and run Pokemon makes it a great move to have. I'm very shaky on Dragon Claw because it just doesn't hit with enough power to make it worthwhile. You could try Hydro Pump because if you have the weather advantage against Groudon you have a good way to get rid of it without absolutely forcing yourself to switch out. It can also help against sand teams, though they are not as common as they once were. Another option you have is Shadow Claw which won't get you locked into Outrage, but still can pose a threat to certain Pokemon.

As I mentioned previously, I'd still recommend Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn instead of Protect. You can instantly cripple any scarfer that doesn't pose enough of a threat to it. I realize this goes against Leech Seed, but I just feel Leech Seed doesn't work as well in Ubers as it does in OU because the Pokemon are too powerful. I prefer having Ferrothorn with Spikes because it can usually survive multiple attacks so you can get down a couple layers.

The problem I am seeing with Mewtwo is that one of the main points to using it is because it can eliminate nonscarf Darkrai. All you have is Taunt which only stops Dark Void and possibly Nasty Plot. You are just going to be doing a switching circle because of not having a great way to get rid of it besides Salamence which fails to OHKO with Outrage more often than not unless you have entry hazards in play. Salamence will lose to Scarf Darkrai over 90% of the time since Outrage's maximum damage is 101% while the minimum is 86%. Mewtwo really should have Aura Sphere. It won't OHKO due to your spread, however, it will soften it up considerably so your other Pokemon can finish it off.

You will notice I didn't address Tentacruel. My problem is that Tentacruel just doesn't work well in Ubers. All it does for your team is spin and Toxic Spikes. Other Pokemon can set up right in front of it without you being able to do anything about it except hope for a burn against physical attackers. This is very problematic if Extreme Killer Arceus comes in and uses Swords Dance or Darkrai uses Nasty Plot.

Main things I feel the team will have a problem with before this rate:
Extreme Killer Arceus - This just does so much damage to all of your team except Ferrothorn.
Darkrai - All you have is Kyogre to paralyze it. Salamence loses to Scarf versions most of the time unless you have hazards down before it hits the field.
Latios - Depending on if the opposing team can change the weather to sun or sand, HP Fire could be problematic to Ferrothorn and it still crushes nearly all of your team. The only thing you can do is revenge KO it with Salamence. Anything else is too risky.
Lugia - Lugia I'd say is only a medium threat because it depends on if the Lugia is on a sun team. If it is on a sun team, you can't rely on Thunder to get rid of it. Mewtwo can Taunt it, but otherwise you don't have much against it.
Ho-Oh - It is a threat to the team because it is always on a sun team and can dish out very high damage to everything you have between Brave Bird and Sacred Fire. It will likely take two of your Pokemon to KO it.
Reshiram - It is always on a sun team as well. Blue Flare just does incredible damage on anything it hits. Specs can actually 2HKO Giratina-O in the sun. Salamence can check it, but it can't safely switch in.
Dialga - I'd classify it as a high level threat because you have nothing that can directly threaten it where it has to switch out. Salamence can't even OHKO it after being +1 with Earthquake.

 

[Equinox]

First of all I would never recommend Hydro Pump on Kyogre. Too many Pokemon have Pressure to make it work well enough. I can't figure out anything new you'd be able to OHKO or 2HKO by running Hydro Pump over Surf. Moves with 8 PP as the maximum really need to get OHKOs, not be 2HKOs or you will run out of PP in the long run. - I love Hydro Pump on Kyogre, I've scored more KO's, and really most of the Pokemon who abuse Pressure Kyogre will not be hitting with Hydro Pump, bar for Mewtwo, Lugia (which lols at Hydro Pump anyways), Ho-Oh, and the occasional Deoxys, Palkia, Dialga, Kyurem, can easily take Hydro Pump. I'd rather not be running Surf, as I dislike the power drop, but that's my playstyle.

It doesn't fear Thunder from Choice Scarf Kyogre, and Choice Specs Kyogre 2HKOs, meaning I can at least easily cripple opposing Kyogres.

I beg to differ. Even Choice Scarf Kyogre can 2HKO with Thunder so it fears it. Specs can do quite a number on your Kyogre as well, up to 95% with a single hit. That is quite a bit hit you are taking just to paralyze it. I'd suggest handling foe Kyogre with Ferrothorn instead. You'd need to take out either Leech Seed or Protect to do this and put on Thunder Wave. Ferrothorn can take 2 Surfs from Specs and still survive. Any other Kyogre set doesn't have a chance at KO'ing it. - I don't plan on switching my Kyogre in another, I do fear the Thunder, but what I mean is I can easily cripple opposing Kyogre who think they can KO my Kyogre in one shot, the whole point of the set is to cripple and take out what it can.

I'm a bit puzzled at the EVs on Giratina. Could you explain how you came up with them? I still would highly recommend changing the Giratina set. Right now Extreme Killer Arceus does a number on your team. Ferrothorn is the only safe thing you have against it. Swapping one of Giratina's moves for Will-O-Wisp would help tremendously with this problem because it can actually survive a +2 Shadow Claw. It can survive a +4 Shadow Claw even if Arceus is holding Leftovers and not Life Orb. - The EV spread on Giratina I got from Smogon. Nothing unique, just what smogon has. I love the set as well, as Lugia can't wall this set all that well. Even with Pressure, Sleep Talk makes for good company. The whole point of the set is to outlast and break walls, and even then I've swept teams with this set alone.

Thanks to Salamence's huge attack, with Moxie and Choice Scarf, I can clear teams well within late game. Another good mention is Kyogre, again, having the ability to cripple faster revenge killers like Palkia, Zekrom, Reshiram, and other friends, allowing for Salamence to run right on through. Fire Blast is a must on Salamence, like any other revenge killer in Ubers, unless you want to be walled by Steel-types. Earthquake takes care of Dialga, which doesn't fear Outrage. Outrage is the main move, allowing Salamence to put holes into teams easily. Dragon Claw is situational, when Outrage seems too risky.

- I'm highly considering changing Salamence anyways, so yeah

Of the Pokemon you specifically mentioned, only Palkia actually outpaces Salamence; the others you listed only have a base 90 Speed compared to Salamence's 100. The first thing I need to mention is you are running Fire Blast on it when it's Special Attack is only moderate and not the levels of Palkia while it is on a rain team. The only two things you can actually damage decently are Ferrothorn, which still can make Salamence useless after it survives then Thunder Waves back, and Forretress. Draco Meteor would be a much better choice in the set because while you still won't be able to switch moves, the fact that Salamence is used as a hit and run Pokemon makes it a great move to have. I'm very shaky on Dragon Claw because it just doesn't hit with enough power to make it worthwhile. You could try Hydro Pump because if you have the weather advantage against Groudon you have a good way to get rid of it without absolutely forcing yourself to switch out. It can also help against sand teams, though they are not as common as they once were. Another option you have is Shadow Claw which won't get you locked into Outrage, but still can pose a threat to certain Pokemon. - See above

As I mentioned previously, I'd still recommend Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn instead of Protect. You can instantly cripple any scarfer that doesn't pose enough of a threat to it. I realize this goes against Leech Seed, but I just feel Leech Seed doesn't work as well in Ubers as it does in OU because the Pokemon are too powerful. I prefer having Ferrothorn with Spikes because it can usually survive multiple attacks so you can get down a couple layers. - It's a nice idea but I like Protect better, it helps me predict what the opponent plans on doing. Leech Seed is fine, I've found it easy to stack with Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, and it really forces an opponent to think what they're going to do, either take the Leech Seed damage every turn, or switch and take hazard damage the next time they come in, which helps me stack residual damage either way.

The problem I am seeing with Mewtwo is that one of the main points to using it is because it can eliminate nonscarf Darkrai. All you have is Taunt which only stops Dark Void and possibly Nasty Plot. You are just going to be doing a switching circle because of not having a great way to get rid of it besides Salamence which fails to OHKO with Outrage more often than not unless you have entry hazards in play. Salamence will lose to Scarf Darkrai over 90% of the time since Outrage's maximum damage is 101% while the minimum is 86%. Mewtwo really should have Aura Sphere. It won't OHKO due to your spread, however, it will soften it up considerably so your other Pokemon can finish it off. - I might change the set, as Darkrai has been an annoyance. I, however, have found it easier to Taunt opposing Ferrothorn, and even Extreme Killer Arceus, but I still haven't made up my mind.

You will notice I didn't address Tentacruel. My problem is that Tentacruel just doesn't work well in Ubers. All it does for your team is spin and Toxic Spikes. Other Pokemon can set up right in front of it without you being able to do anything about it except hope for a burn against physical attackers. This is very problematic if Extreme Killer Arceus comes in and uses Swords Dance or Darkrai uses Nasty Plot. - Contrary to your posts I haven't had that much of a problem with Darkrai. Tenacruel also has been doing fine on this team, it has taken so many hits surprisingly well, I'm keeping him.

Main things I feel the team will have a problem with before this rate:
Extreme Killer Arceus - This just does so much damage to all of your team except Ferrothorn. - Replied to this above
Darkrai - All you have is Kyogre to paralyze it. Salamence loses to Scarf versions most of the time unless you have hazards down before it hits the field. - Again, I really am considering changing Salamence, to what I am not sure, but ExtremeKiller Arceus is what I'm really considering.
Latios - Depending on if the opposing team can change the weather to sun or sand, HP Fire could be problematic to Ferrothorn and it still crushes nearly all of your team. The only thing you can do is revenge KO it with Salamence. Anything else is too risky. - So far I haven't ran into Latios except but a few times, each time it has been KO'd by Giratina-O.
Lugia - Lugia I'd say is only a medium threat because it depends on if the Lugia is on a sun team. If it is on a sun team, you can't rely on Thunder to get rid of it. Mewtwo can Taunt it, but otherwise you don't have much against it. - Giratina-O, that is all.
Ho-Oh - It is a threat to the team because it is always on a sun team and can dish out very high damage to everything you have between Brave Bird and Sacred Fire. It will likely take two of your Pokemon to KO it. - I can't really say much about Ho-oh, other than the times I've played against it I got SR out and really crippled it.
Reshiram - It is always on a sun team as well. Blue Flare just does incredible damage on anything it hits. Specs can actually 2HKO - Suprisingly I haven't ran into Reshiram yet, so I can't really say anything.
Giratina-O in the sun. Salamence can check it, but it can't safely switch in. - I think the only set I've ran into is RestTalk Shuffler, but I got rid of it via Taunt Stalltwo.
Dialga - I'd classify it as a high level threat because you have nothing that can directly threaten it where it has to switch out. Salamence can't even OHKO it after being +1 with Earthquake. - Again, considering changing Salamence to something else, but even still, I haven't had too many problems with Dialga.

Replies in Bold