Blastoise / Keldeo EX / Black Kyurem EX

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

>If you don't own tropical beach don't play blastoise nothing can replace it... your deck becomes too inconsistent without it, even more inconsistent when playing electrode. Electrode brings a tier 1 deck to like tier 1.5 .

Yeah that makes some sense I guess.

I mean it's not like anyone's ever tested the deck and then proceeded to make Top 8 at Regionals, just like Plasma, or anything.

 

[Tmenzz]

I have played this A LOT without tropical beach. Just... don't do it. there are so many better options for you to play. I can't tell you how manly times I wish I had it when I play this deck.

 

[Keldeo EX FTW]

Less supporters?

This entire deck's main problem besides Garbodor is consistency; last format during Nationals I ran 4 Juniper, 3 N, 4 Skyla, 2 Colress, AND 3 Beach (and all of my losses were to bad draws!). Things may have to change now since you have literally no chance vs Garbodor without making room somewhere for Scrapper, but focusing on supporters and consistency is a big deal.

Because we are discussing support line up this is my current line up. Let it be known also I run 4 Beach as stadium wars is massive in Australia and you really dont want frozen city/virabnk left on the field.

• 4 Professor Juniper
• 4 N
• 3 Skyla
• 2 Colress

I've been thinking about running a supporter line of:

x4 Juniper
x3 N
x2 Colress
x4 Skyla
x2 Bianca

I know it's a lot, but I don't run beach (unfortunately). I'm considering Cilan yet again, but I figured Bianca would be a better option. Two Cilan is probably too much, let alone one, but it is still worth mentioning. But seriously, is this supporter line-up too little, a great number, or too much? Also, what about running a Wartortle, or even running just 3 Squirtle? Finally, if you do run escape rope, should you run 2, or 3? I think 2 is better because it opens up spots for consistency cards, but I absolutely hate coming up against a wall of "can't take damage from EX" pokemon.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I too choose not to run Tropical Beach in my deck and have the following Trainers in my list (partial):

• 2 Bicycle (for times when I just have a "dead" hand and no card draw Supporter. Also tested Bianca, which works well with the Ultra Balls, Computer Search, etc. However, I like "Item" card draw option more.
• 1 Cilan
• 3 Colress
• 3 N
• 3 Professor Juniper
• 1 Random Receiver (replaced my 4th PJ which at times led me to discard too many other resources)
• 3 Skyla (I run 1 Wartortle)

I've been thinking about running a supporter line of:

x4 Juniper
x3 N
x2 Colress
x4 Skyla
x2 Bianca

I know it's a lot, but I don't run beach (unfortunately). I'm considering Cilan yet again, but I figured Bianca would be a better option. Two Cilan is probably too much, let alone one, but it is still worth mentioning. But seriously, is this supporter line-up too little, a great number, or too much?

I like having the Cilan (I run only 1 in my deck) option should I need to search and get 1 of the few L energy in my deck. This card is typically used "early" game to get the energy flow cycle started.

IMHO, if your Trainer mix does not work for you, then consider tweaking the mix till you get the combination you like most as a result of playtesting.

Also, what about running a Wartortle, or even running just 3 Squirtle?

My Blastoise line consists of 3 Squirtle, 1 Wartortle and 3 Blastoise - this lineup works well for me.

Finally, if you do run escape rope, should you run 2, or 3? I think 2 is better because it opens up spots for consistency cards, but I absolutely hate coming up against a wall of "can't take damage from EX" pokemon.

I run 2 Escape Ropes in my deck since Keldeo EX-Float Stone can provide "Switch" capability. I no longer run Catcher in my deck; and I've found that Escape Ropes can force an opponent's sole benched Poké (the one I really want to KO) into the active position.

Consider running 1-2 non-EX Poké (e.g., Bouffalant and Black Kyurem) just to break through those "walls."

 

[Keldeo EX FTW]

Thanks for the tips! I prefer 4 Skylas though since it is utterly important to get that blastoise out quick, but it looks good. That answers my question quite well, but I'm also contemplating whether I should run Electrodes or Bicycles. Which do you prefer? Anyway, am I the only one considering running 4 SER instead of 3 SER and 2 regular Energy Retrieval? Seems like it might be good to me, I mean, it works, possibly along with a super rod. :/

 

[TuxedoBlack]

In my area, there are several decks with teched-in Dusknoir. IMHO, those Electrodes will be easily KOd with no/very little "return on investment" on those dedicated card slots. I will continue to run Bicycles and with Diving Draw, my drawing engine works well for me.

I have not tested running 4 SER in my deck. I do run 2 ER too. The 4 SER would definitely be helpful if any are ever prized, but that has not happen to me enough to warrant an increase in my SER count to 4.

 

[Keldeo EX FTW]

I must say, I totally agree with there with the Electrodes. Anyway, the reason I'd consider running 4 SER instead is because if you make Black Kyurem EX your main attacker and run 3 of them (as I do) you're generally going to be getting energy in the discard pile quite quickly. Generally, I only use Keldeo EX for Rush In and retreat since I don't run float stone, so I rarely need to use it for attacking. I still, however, am not sure if I should run 3 SER with 2 Energy Retrieval or just 4 SER. If I run 4 SER, I'd only have 4 cards to get back energy from the discard, all of which require discarding cards. However, I'd also open up another slot in my list for something else that could be useful such as a Colress. Running the normal 3-2 line of SER and Energy Retrieval would make the probability of obtaining an energy retrieving card greater, but take up more space. I'm actually considering removing all of my Escape Ropes to fit in better, more reliable cards, but I'm still looking at all my options. I probably wouldn't be in this mess if I would play Beach, but alas, I don't.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

There's an "increase" of non-EX Poké-based decks or non-EX Poké techs in decks here. So, I'm finding that I need to attack with Keldeo EX just as much as BKEX. So, the 3 SER / 2 ER combination works for me. However, needless to say, a 4th SER does not "hurt" your chances of drawing into it when needed.

 

[Keldeo EX FTW]

Yes, I do agree, though I also run a non-EX Black Kyurem not only as a good Safeguard counter, but also to polish the mirror match as well as other decks that run dragon types as their main attackers (such as Garchomp and Rayboar).

 

[skyla27]

This deck is gonna get broken with XY. Not talking about Mega Blastoise either. Im talking about the new trainers. Have you seen these? Professor's Letter, Cassius, Super Potion....Blastoise/Keldeo can make use of all these very well. Most decks can, but i feel like Blastoise is really gonna gain a leg up on the competition with the addition of these trainers. If anyone doesnt know what they do, go to the main PokeBeach page and check out the scans. Ridiculous.

 

[Keldeo EX FTW]

They look interesting, though I'm not sure whether or not those cards could make the deck broken. Professor's Letter is pretty amazing though, since it is basically Cilan in an Item card, but fetching you one less energy. I don't think some of these would be usable in a deck like this where every space matters for consistency, but they certainly are worth considering.

 

[ESVDiamond]

Curious what everyone is thinking about this deck now with X/Y out for a bit. Although BlastoiseEX/M-Blastoise X don't seem to have a place in it in my opinion, it seems like there is some solid trainer candidates. 2 trainers that stood out in the games I have played vs were both Professor's Letter and Super Potion. The letter allows for some really slick OHKO's and the Potion is just plain annoying vs a deck that tends to attach extra energy as is on Pokemon.

What's everyone been trying with it? Any new Pokemon or just messing with trainers? Does X/Y not even matter for this deck?

 

[meepster123]

They look interesting, though I'm not sure whether or not those cards could make the deck broken. Professor's Letter is pretty amazing though, since it is basically Cilan in an Item card, but fetching you one less energy. I don't think some of these would be usable in a deck like this where every space matters for consistency, but they certainly are worth considering.

Prof's letter is definatly awesome, and for super potion, it is somewhat usable, i wouldnt use it for consistency. Did you get that joke from the Impossible quiz?

 

[masterforce]

I would probably run 3 Prof letters now since I'm taking away 4 catchers/1 energy search/1 cilan. It will get you the energy you need to use and discard/get them back with SER.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

I would probably run 3 Prof letters now since im taking away 4 catchers/1 energy search/1 cilan. It will get you the energy you need to use and discard/get them back with SER.

3 Letter is what I use. It works pretty well.

 

[masterforce]

I would probably run 3 Prof letters now since im taking away 4 catchers/1 energy search/1 cilan. It will get you the energy you need to use and discard/get them back with SER.

3 Letter is what I use. It works pretty well.

Nice. Im still debating on either keeping 2 catchers or just putting in Escape rope. Haven't play tested the deck with all these different changes and new cards in over 6 months. Finally gonna get back and be ready for nationals.

 

[OblivionDvdr]

Super potion really isn't a relevant card when it comes to this deck. Max potion almost completely outclasses it in every way; very few Pokemon are going to hit for less that 60 damage, and whenever you can attach as many energy as you want per turn, the discard doesn't hurt very bad, and with the amount of SER that the deck usually runs, you can recover them pretty easy. BKEX is big and bulky, so he won't be OHKO'ed easily, and that's all the more reason to use max potion instead of super potion.

 

[Frost Mage]

"Blastoise and RayBoar are dead, and Druddigon killed it." Say the people at my league challenge yesterday. Really guys? I know it's not as good as it used to be, but a 1-of tech for Blastoise in the form of Druddigon does not kill a deck. Thoughts?

 

[Machamp The Champion]

"Blastoise and RayBoar are dead, and Druddigon killed it." Say the people at my league challenge yesterday. Really guys? I know it's not as good as it used to be, but a 1-of tech for Blastoise in the form of Druddigon does not kill a deck. Thoughts?

Blastoise (and Ray/Boar) are definitely not dead. If they ever get really unpopular, people will stop playing Druddigon and they'll be really good again. Even with Druddigon as popular as it is now, you can just use Keldeo (or Delphox/Reshiram) to knock those out, and to get some OHKO's on occasion. I think some lists will start to shift a little more towards Keldeo (and Delphox) to counteract all the Druddigon, since it's still not bad at getting OHKO's. Even against Vir/Gen and Yveltal, it forces your opponent to use Genesect or Yveltal respectively against you, which is still better than being OHKO'd by a Druddigon, and if worse comes to worst, you can still use Black Kyurem as a back up.

but a 1-of tech for Blastoise in the form of Druddigon does not kill a deck.

Just FYI, some people play 2 Druddigon if they have a really bad Blastoise match up, just because it is that good against Black Kyurem focused lists.

 

[Frost Mage]

In my (very) local area of California, and of course this is only based on the league challenges I've played in recently, Blastoise has been no where to be seen. Only one person played it at the last league challenge I played in (got 3rd place!), and she was a senior. Everyone else was playing DarkGarb or a Big Basics list with counters to Darkrai and Yveltal. By the way, the mirror match of Darkrai/Garbodor is painful. I just can't wait until they print a form of draw power that isn't Tropical Beach, since not only is its price terrible for the game, it's going to get rotated after Worlds.