Ruling Baby ninetales VS Espeon EX, who ignores who?

D

Dar Ksereth

Aspiring Trainer
Member
baby ninetales has an ability that says: "Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokémon by your opponent's Pokémon-GX or Pokémon-EX."

meanwhile espeon EX has an attack that says: "This attack's damage isn't affected by any effects on your opponent's Active Pokémon."

so... does espeon's attack do damage or not? in the TCGO it apparently does but from what i've seen that game hasn't always been perfectly accurate. thanks a lot in advance.
 
Everything I've heard including asking that very question to a testing partner who occasionally acts as a League Judge has indicated that Espeon wins and the damage does go through.
 
yea, i'd like to know if there's a reason or an order for this, only thing i can think of is "espeon's attack applies before the defending pokemon is even checked, and due to it's wording it then ignores anything on said pokemon that may change the damage"

but if i could get more confirmation it'd be neato.
 
So the explanation I've heard is that Ninetales' ability places the effect on Ninetales that attacks from EX/GX do no damage and have no effect. Then Espeon-EX's attack explicitly bypasses that effect.
 
works for me i guess, on that note, what about turtonator GX's attack that places an effect on him(shell trap), would that be ignored by baby ninetales (since it is the effect of an attack made by a GX pokemon, or it won't since the effect is placed on turtonator and is no longer an attack/the effect wasn't placed on baby ninetales?
 
from the compendium, its not exact but its close enough it can be applied to shell trap/luminous barrier interaction

Q. If my opponent used Turtonator GX's "Shell Trap" attack and I have Magearna EX with the "Mystic Heart" Ability in play, will my Pokemon with Metal energy attached get the 8 damage counters from "Shell Trap" if I attack and do damage to Turtonator GX?
A. No, it will not receive the 8 damage counters. Mystic Heart prevents all effects of your opponent's attacks, and Shell Trap's damage counters are an effect of your opponent's attack. (Aug 3, 2017 TPCi Rules Team)
Click to expand...
 
Effects on the Attacking Pokémon are always applied before effects on the Defending Pokémon. That is why effects that boost damage usually apply before Weakness and Resistance, while effects that reduce damage tend to be applied after Weakness and Resistance. I believe that is what happens here; you check for effects in that order, so by the time Alolan Ninetales and its "Luminous Barrier", you already know to apply the effect of "Psyshock" to the damage being done by Espeon-EX.

This is how these kinds of attacks have worked for at least the last several years, maybe longer. I think the reason we are whiffing in the Compendium is that

1) This attack effect versus protective effect interaction has been established for a while...

2) ...but under far too many different names. XP

Here we have a thread where someone is asking about "Shred" - an attack with an effect similar to that of Psyshock - versus "Safeguard" - an effect similar to Luminous Barrier - and it is even backed up by another protective effect. Shred was still ruled as going through, and rulings from Pokégym's "Ask the Rules Team" section are considered official (as per this thread).
 
treyh37 said:
from the compendium, its not exact but its close enough it can be applied to shell trap/luminous barrier interaction
Click to expand...
ah that's perfect, i admit i didn't check the compendium for this one.
Otaku said:
Effects on the Attacking Pokémon are always applied before effects on the Defending Pokémon. That is why effects that boost damage usually apply before Weakness and Resistance, while effects that reduce damage tend to be applied after Weakness and Resistance. I believe that is what happens here; you check for effects in that order, so by the time Alolan Ninetales and its "Luminous Barrier", you already know to apply the effect of "Psyshock" to the damage being done by Espeon-EX.

This is how these kinds of attacks have worked for at least the last several years, maybe longer. I think the reason we are whiffing in the Compendium is that

1) This attack effect versus protective effect interaction has been established for a while...

2) ...but under far too many different names. XP

Here we have a thread where someone is asking about "Shred" - an attack with an effect similar to that of Psyshock - versus "Safeguard" - an effect similar to Luminous Barrier - and it is even backed up by another protective effect. Shred was still ruled as going through, and rulings from Pokégym's "Ask the Rules Team" section are considered official (as per this thread).
Click to expand...

that's a good way to put it, i knew that attackers effects trigger before defender HP, i just thought that since ninetales' was an ability it was an "always on" kind of thing, thinking of abilities as things that trigger when needed certainly changes the way i see them now.

thanks lots for the answers!
 
Would the ruling be the same for Miraculous Shrine too? The PTCGO couldn't make up its mind, the other day I played a game and used it on the opponents Ninetales and it shrugged it off but a couple of games later I got hit by an opponent's Espeon and it devolved my baby Ninetales. No Garbotoxins were in play. Wish I had saved the game logs.
 
Barring anything that turns off the ability, miraculous shine should not impact baby Ninetales.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top