Archie, Maxie, and Mega Evolution

My Little Keldeo

Submarine Reflection!
Advanced Member
Member
Scroll down to the botton of the page.

I was looking for some sources to support my belief that Archie's Ace in the Hole and Maxie's Hidden Ball trick can put evolutions directly onto your bench to better answer a member's question in the "Ask a Professor" forum. Not only was I right, but I found out something just a little more juicy.

According to the card explanations on the official Pokemon website, not only can you use Archie and Maxie to directly bench evolutions, but if you chose to do this with a Mega Evolution (or Primal), it would not end your turn. This is because you're directly playing the Pokemon to the bench as opposed to actually evolving. The Mega/ Primal rule states that your turn only ends when one of your Pokemon becomes (aka evolves) it, unless of course you have a Spirit Link. Since you're playing the card directly to your bench via an effect, rather than evolving from a Basic Pokemon, the Mega / Primal rule does not trigger.

What does this mean for the metagame? Well, we will need to do some testing to find out. Archie and Maxie are still difficult to play, and the only Mega Evolutions they can get out (collectively speaking) are P-Groudon, P-Kyogre, M-Blastoise, and M-Lucario. Of those four, Groudon and Kyogre can be brought out more reliably via Spirit Links, though this is something you should keep in the back of your mind. I'm not really a fan of M-Blastoise, especially since Kyogre kind of overshadows it. Of course, other Water and Fighting Mega Evolutions will surely be released in the future, and there's no telling what Pokemon has planned for their playabilty.

I'd like to now direct your attention to M-Lucario-EX. Here is a card with some potential, given all the Fighting support. It does have a couple of drawbacks, aside from being a Mega without a Spirit Link though. An attack cost of three [F] energy is kind of hefty, and it does mean it's only going to be in a straight Fighting deck. A Psychic weakness is a problem, but when played with other partners Mewtwo-EX can be worked around. With Strong energy, Muscle Band. and Fighting Stadium, it's pretty easy to OHKO things with Rising Fist. And in the event that you don't, you get to discard an energy attached to your opponent's active Pokemon. That's pretty sick, especially considering that Landorus FFI can power it up in two turns. Maxie's Hidden Ball trick just might open up the door for M-Lucario to see a bit of play, especially if played in a deck with P-Groudon.

Do you folks have thoughts on any of this? This could potentially mean something for future Water and Fighting Mega Evolutions (Spirit Links seem to be the norm now, but we could get surprised). Of course, Links are a bit clunky themselves. This alternative is clunky as well... given the specifics needed to play Archie or Maxie, but it is just that- an alternative, which could prove useful in the right situation.
 

Talkingcat

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Mega Lucario is really strong for sure. After the next rotation it could look a lot better, without Mewtwo EX.

But it's hard to say until we see just how difficult it is to use Maxie. At the moment it just seems like you would have to stuff your deck with cards that you can always play like rollerskates. It would just be the whole focus of your deck, which would have obvious problems.
 

Carpey

Deck Experimenter
Member
If there is ever a way that would make these cards easier to play, then it would be an awesome deck. Right now, it's probably just easier to send a Robo Sub active, Mega evolve, and hope for the best. Of course, I haven't actually tried to use Archie/Maxie yet, but it's obvious just by keeping focus on your hand throughout a normal game that getting down to one card is somewhat difficult.
 

TuxedoBlack

Old School Player
Member
After some initial play-testing, I believe the most practical approach to utilizing Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick effectively (?) (leaning towards F decks ATM) is to revert back to utilizing more of a Ball engine with the "intent" of depleting my hand early game. Then a Maxie can be played. Needless to say, an opponent's early Quaking Punch counters this strategy.

My tactic may be only good in theory, but could also fall short in actual and practical use.
 

Ivy_Profen

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I have been thinking about Maxie's Trick recently. The new flygon seems pretty interesting in combination with it. Each turn you can shuffle your hand and draw 4 cards. If you draw a combo of Maxie's Trick and an ultra ball/comp search/sup energy retrieval/ect , you can instantly drop your hand to 1 and play Maxie's Trick. Same could be said for Archie's Ace. Though flygon at least uses fighting energy.

Though as said earlier, it will force you to build a deck around using those cards that will ruin the overall consistency, just to boost the usage of those supporters.
 

My Little Keldeo

Submarine Reflection!
Advanced Member
Member
TuxedoBlack said:
After some initial play-testing, I believe the most practical approach to utilizing Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick effectively (?) (leaning towards F decks ATM) is to revert back to utilizing more of a Ball engine with the "intent" of depleting my hand early game. Then a Maxie can be played. Needless to say, an opponent's early Quaking Punch counters this strategy.

My tactic may be only good in theory, but could also fall short in actual and practical use.

Ivy_Profen said:
I have been thinking about Maxie's Trick recently. The new flygon seems pretty interesting in combination with it. Each turn you can shuffle your hand and draw 4 cards. If you draw a combo of Maxie's Trick and an ultra ball/comp search/sup energy retrieval/ect , you can instantly drop your hand to 1 and play Maxie's Trick. Same could be said for Archie's Ace. Though flygon at least uses fighting energy.

Though as said earlier, it will force you to build a deck around using those cards that will ruin the overall consistency, just to boost the usage of those supporters.

I think there may be potential in a draw engine that makes use of Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick. Ultra Ball has always been good, and this is a deck where discarding cards could be somewhat of an advantage. Even energy can be discared liberally, as it can be reattached via Landorus FFI.

Roller Skates is another card that can work out nicely in here. It sort of becomes a win/win situation. If heads, you get the card advantage from the draw power. if tails, you've gotten it out of your hand and you're closer to playing your Supporter. Exeggcute PLF can be used to assist with the "math" of discarding, so that you have exactly the right amount. And of course, you'll be running Battle Compressors to chuck Pokemon, and unwated things into your discard.

Will this work as well as a "classic" draw engine? Most likely not, but it's not something to write off. When N and Colress rotate, we will be starved for draw Supporters, and this could become an option. We'll have to see what Pokemon has planned for future sets, but given recent trends, they could have more support planned for these sorts of ventures.
 

Gengar master

shiny Pokémon bait
Advanced Member
Member
I think there will be (a) new card(s) in the upcoming sets that will help pull off these neat Supporters.
 

DarkMatterGaming

Aspiring Trainer
Member
That's... actually really cool.

I don't know how well it'll sit in the meta but a tech of at least one in a deck of this nature could be pretty neat to see.
 

Pipotchi

Aspiring Trainer
Member
One thing that I just thought of that are perhaps equal obnoxiousness to get into play are fossils. Archie can grab Aurorus, and Maxie can get Tyrantrum, and both of these cards are actually pretty good. I would still play Fossil Researcher, but probably some Archie/Maxie as well with that. I imagine an Aurorus/Archie deck with Seismitoad as well as lots of consumables would work nicely since using the consumables that work so well with Seismitoad are good for dropping your hand size and playing Archie.
 

pokedan24

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'm thinking a deck with Eelectrode and several Ultra Ball might be the way to go. Use Electrode to fill your hand up to four cards, ultra ball to discard 2 (one of them being the Pokemon you want to get out there) and then play Archie or Maxie. As it stands, it would still require a lot of luck to get the right cards, but who knows?
 
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