A REAL Solution

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ArmaldoEX

Pokemon Rose Scripter
Member
Water Pokémon Master said:
Doc and I talked about a "reputation" system (which I guess would be your I-Bar idea) a while ago, and we thought people would abuse it. The forums used to have a reputation system, and all anyone ever did was misuse it or abuse it. Even if just mods used it, it is hard to rank everyone, and people won't even know why they are being ranked the way they are or what they need to do to improve (and PMing people for every little thing is a pain in the neck). If forums were age-separated, people would come to learn how they need to act.

According to Absol, the I-bar will rank people, giving them negative or positive points automatically. I'm not too sure, however. If the I-bar was able to transfer the mistake to the Mod CP instead of automatically giving them more or less points (except for those which are like spam, etc.), then the mods can determine whether the points should stay, be added, or reduced.

And yes, I remember the old rep system where other members can rank you. :/ That was really bad. IIRC, one guy got 3 negatives because he/she just pointed out a few flaws in a few peoples' decks. :/
 

Kevin Garrett

is a competitor
Advanced Member
Member
The only problem with an age-based system would be driscimination. To be honest, several of our veteran members are young or have imperfect grammar and spelling. This will turn people away from the forum. Unless you want dozens of people like Melody running around on other forums, you'll understand my point. As for the warning system (I-bar), there should be a detailed explanation about it to reduce confusion. Since only mods, super mods, and admin can use it, I fail to see where ordinary members would be abusing this.
 

ArmaldoEX

Pokemon Rose Scripter
Member
Absol said:
Every mod having to look through every post? With the I-bar, as long as someone commits a mistake and his mistake has been reported, then he would automatically get demerits. There's no need for manual checking.

Yeah.
 

Water Pokémon Master

I like Pokemon more than you! :p
Webmaster
Elite Member
Advanced Member
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Kevin Garrett said:
The only problem with an age-based system would be driscimination. To be honest, several of our veteran members are young or have imperfect grammar and spelling. This will turn people away from the forum. Unless you want dozens of people like Melody running around on other forums, you'll understand my point. As for the warning system (I-bar), there should be a detailed explanation about it to reduce confusion. Since only mods, super mods, and admin can use it, I fail to see where ordinary members would be abusing this.

I am not concerned about discrimination with age, considering that in our world, that is how most things are. You come on forums to learn and to discuss things, so separating people into age groups helps organize those types of things to a better degree, including levels of intelligence. Also, I don't know if you missed this, but people can be moved up or down if they are beyond or below their years.

Having age groups helps with clutter, too.

If only mods can use this I-Bar (I still need to see an explanation of this, please), it would be hard to rank every single member, and thus many people would slip under the radar. It also seems like it requires constant work to maintain (i.e. ranking people all the time). We want something that helps fix MOST problems and is easy to both implement and use.
 

Kevin Garrett

is a competitor
Advanced Member
Member
On invisionfree they have the warning bars. They can only be maintained by mods. Everyone will start out with a clean slate. Once a member breaks a rule, a mod can increase the negative rank (warning). With this system, it is propsed that we have a bar with a positive side too. Members that display good qualities will gain a positive rank. Those members will have access to veteran member forums. If they break a rule, then they lose access to that forum. See - it is similar to you system, but not pertaining to age.
 

Water Pokémon Master

I like Pokemon more than you! :p
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Ah, so the I-Bar is what I thought it was. The goals of both ideas are still the same - restricting members to certain forums (although with the I-Bar, how this works isn't exactly specified, such as with what forums are restricted to lower reps). What if we did a combination of both ideas? Separate forums by age, and then use a mod-only reputation system / a member submitting why they should be moved up to move members up or down? It would be the first proposal of this thread, but using a reputation system to also assist mods in determining whether people should move up or down.

Porygon also suggested we should have a ban page explaining why people were banned so members know what not to do.
 

ArmaldoEX

Pokemon Rose Scripter
Member
I like the idea of having a ban page. =] I still don't get the combined ideas. The members get separated based on their age. Then, what does the I-bar gets to do in this idea? Move members from different ages to a better/lower age group?
 

Water Pokémon Master

I like Pokemon more than you! :p
Webmaster
Elite Member
Advanced Member
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Yes, separate by age, then use a reputation system to move people up and down, which would be a lot easier for us (the mods). If someone wants to jump the gun, they can also submit something to us about why they should be moved up.
 

Noobnerd

~I see a little silhouetto of a man~
Member
I still think this is the best solution: http://mods.mybboard.net/view/forum-warning-system-for-mybb-1.2.x
 

Mewstor

Pokémon Professor
Member
I just went and copy/pasted every message I had made on this thread but it stretched out to a length of a small novel, so I won't post it here.

WPM, now you are getting just the opinion of the people who posted last. If you (seemingly) don't care what I and some other members have posted in this thread (cause you apparently won't go looking for those posts) I can tell you, I am really disappointed in you as this forums admin. Tell me you've read my posts. Tell me you WANT to read my posts and I can PM you the whole lot!

Here's a small and insignificant summary of what I think (I really suggest reading all of the messages)

-No age groups cause that would be age discrimination.
-It WILL drive away the young members cause they will have to interact almost solely with n00bs and other inexperienced members.
-They can't learn anything talking only with n00bs and people of their own age who also know nothing.
-Make groups only for the noobs and the elites. Everyone else stays in the normal members group.
-Get a spine! Mod more! Ban more! Be tough!!!
-Stop looking for the easy answer cause there ain't one!!!
-Take it from an admin that has run a Nintendos official forum that has 2660 members for two years.
-This is a bad idea!
-Warn system would be great, but apparently undoable.

I'm just trying to help! Really! Honestly! I'm getting tired of writing post that are over 30 lines long and the one person who should really be reading them is not even really paying attention, just dwelling in his own idea seeing absolutely nothing wrong with it. Even when people keep saying "No, I don't like it", It wouldn't be a good idea" and giving explanations why!
I'm not saying you have to start doing as I say. I'm not the admin here. I just want to have a real conversation with WPM about the views I have in this matter, why WPM thinks they will not work (with explanations!) Why am I writing the 30 line messages here and WPM comes and ask for a summary!!!

If this is too hard to read WPM and my message gets deleted (like once before) then I take it as that you don't want me here. And I'll succumb to that. I have my own forum to run. I took helping this forum as one passion in my life and I'm talking to empty walls. I have my limits and that limit is getting too close, too fast.
 

pungtuckweng

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Water Pokémon Master said:
Even if just mods used it, it is hard to rank everyone, and people won't even know why they are being ranked the way they are or what they need to do to improve (and PMing people for every little thing is a pain in the neck).

I'll ignore the front part, since 'my idea' is only for mods to rank. I disagree, it is not very difficult to give someone reputation (I know, I've seen SN reputate someone when I went to his house). You know, in reputations, there is a message to every reputation (Like when someone gives you a negative, there would be a small note next to it. Yours on SN's was 'He eats babies' :p). The small note would serve as a way to tell people of their mistakes.

As for the 'PMing people' thing, isn't that what the mods are doing right now? :p
 

ArmaldoEX

Pokemon Rose Scripter
Member
Mewstor said:
-No age groups cause that would be age discrimination.

WPM said:
If forums were age-separated, people would come to learn how they need to act.

Settled. IMO, from my point of view, the main reason that this age-separating system is disagreed because of age "discrimination", which isn't. And the reason to why I disagree isn't only because of WPM's post, but also because it avoids members from being bashed, like I said, many times before. Honestly, get DarkJake or someone similiar and put a noob together and you get chaos. No, chaos only from the noob, complaining about everything. The noob will feel worse. Like WPM said before, if the actions, posts, grammar, etc of a member increases, the limit of their permissions to the forums will follow as well.
 

The Dark Toxicroak

Aspiring Trainer
Member
okay in my opinon age categories is good but when you post in age based categories for instance deck garage there should be options as to who you want to reply to your thread for instance a 17+ would be able to click anyone may reply or 17+ anyways age categories wouldn't work as people would lie about age e.t.c

so perhaps a time period would be effective for instance members categories based on how long you have been a
pokebeach member so you could choose if you don't want any members that have only been members for 2 months posting in your thread but still there should be a choice new players shouldn't be automatically not allowed to post on old members threads and same with age there should be a choice given to the person posting
 

pungtuckweng

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Okay, I've seen through the myBB page SN posted earlier, and it rocks. It is everything I imagined it to be (duh, I imagined something realistic. You guys got me wrong, it wasn't 'auto', it was just a way to describe it). Let's look through what myBB has to say:

The Good said:
• Members can be warned if they don't follow the board's rules.
• Only so-called 'Warners' can add warning points to a Member.
• You can choose which usergroups belong to the 'Warners' in the AdminCP.
• When warning a member, 'Warners' get the options to choose the amount of percent to give (maximum can be set, using the Settings in the AdminCP.) and which type the warning is about.
• These types can be made, edited and removed in the AdminCP.
• This list can be seen by all members by clicking the Warning Types link at the bottom of each page.
• If the type is not in the list, Warners can write a custom type upon giving warnings.
• 'Warners' also have the option to add an additional reason to the warning they give.
• You can set whether warning without additional reason is allowed or not, using the Settings in the AdminCP.
• A member will be banned automatically if he reaches 100% warning level.
• Additionally, the message contains from which post a member is warned and the additional reason if specified.
• If the member's total warning level is above 60%, 80% or 95%, he will see a special note in the PM.
• This PM will be sent by the Warner himself or by a Member specified in the Settings in the AdminCP.
• If a member's total warning level is above 95%, he will see a warning bar on every page.
• A Warn! button is added on every post (and optionally on the Member List) of a member that can be warned.
• Warners can see the warning level of all members in the posts, Member List and Profile. Can be shown to public (optional).
• All members can see their own total warning level at the bottom of the UserCP.
• The more you come to red, the higher your warning level is. This requires a GD library to be installed on the server. If there isn't a GD library installed, the total percent is shown as a number.
• All warnings are stored in a table in the database. This works as some kind of log that can be seen only by Admins with permissions in the AdminCP.

See! Almost everything is automatic. All the warner have to do is to click on a button Warn! (Next to Edit/Quote/Report). The warner (mod) would be taken into their warning page where they could move a slider in the member's warning bar. The warner then leaves either a pre-written message/warning to the member, or make a custom one.

One thing I have to mention- while the myBB warning bar is in a hidden page/member profile page, I suggest it to be placed just under the HP/EV/w/e bar. Why? This is so that everyone gets to see how bad/good the user is. Really works is the rule-breaker is in the verge of being banned.
 

Aqua Smeargle

Aspiring Trainer
Member
OK, just some quotes to keep in mind before we get too far into this I-bar thing (athough I do like it). Sorry about length...

Pimpwalkin' Mateo Johnson said:
I agree with Mewstor. I think this is a bad idea.

I don't think that the problem of noobyness is a problem you can ever fix. Try as you might, there will always be noobs who just don't get it. If they get really bad, ban them and move on.

Some of the users here act much better than their ages would suggest. I know I've been surprised more than once about a few members. In general, if you're smart enough to know that posting with proper grammar and punctuation makes you not look like an idiot, then you're not going to do something stupid and make a very pretty-looking thread with spam and flames and other assorted crap.

Also mentioned I believe were possible feelings of people who get put in a lesser forum category than one they'd like to be put in. No one wants to be labeled as a noob. No one (except Noobnerd roflz) thinks he's a noob.

I think that if you really want a forum for adults or adult-level thinkers, make a forum specifically for it and strictly enforce the need for proper grammar and punctuation, and start punishing those who ignore or disobey that rule.

I might post something else later. In a nutshell, I'm against this. I don't think it'll ever work.
This one "elite" forum doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, and I'd be a lot easier than other ideas. But I'd be kind of a conglomerate of topics.

GODZILLA said:
Let me say this again:

If anything, have new members be restricted to specified forums where they can learn and be processed. If some people protest being restricted to say forums, have them prove that they can "move out." I think that would be more effective than actually dividing Pokebeach into two groups.

You guys are still talking about "dividing the forums" and seem to have forgotten about this possibility. If I need to elaborate, please say.
Don't know how exactly this would work, but it's one of the few actual alternatives posted in the thread.

DocRobot_K-176 said:
I think MagicMew has brought up a rather serious concern about the new change. The younger members do not want to feel discriminated against, and older members that are bumped down to a lower age group do not want to feel like outcasts. While these changes are intended to help ensure that the older members do not feel alienated, I think it makes it feel as though the younger members, or members that have been dropped to lower age divisions are not equal to older members.

The challenge in this situation is determining a way to help the older members not feel alienated and the younger members feel safe from judgment from the older members without the younger members not feeling equal to the older members.
In a nutshell WPM, this is what most people who've been against your system have said.

Togeshroob said:
First of all, most of these ideas would require a super-overload amount of time and effort from the mods. Checking each forum, each thread, each post, and each person would be insane. Even with, like, ten mods, it would still be insane.

All that I really have to say, and I want people to consider this, is that we are fine as we are now. We have an average of...say...thirtyish people online at one time, going down to around seven people online at one time. And, most of those online members are just sitting on the computer on the PokéBeach Forums, not really doing anything, or reading over threads, etc. When we do have a lot of spam going on, our loyal mods are there to clean it up and straighten out the spammers. If we had an average of 60-80+ members on at one time, then maybe this spam/n00b problem would be more of a problem. But we don't, so.....


I think that these "Stars" (mods) are really helping the most. Ever since we got KG, NN, and c-m on board, things have gone much more smoothly. With this last Star, and possibly even another, we'll be fine.


Also, what KG said earlier:

One of the most important aspects of the PokéBeach Forums, is that we are family friendly. We don't bash and put people down, but we help them, and train them to do better. We refrain from using bad words, and posting bad things, and the such, unlike SOME other forums. I'm not saying that the forum split will cause these things, but we don't want a 7-9 year old and such to feel like they are looked down upon, and are not good; they more than likely get enough of that in real life.
I think the important part to note here is the first paragraph. All of these ideas that require judgement and the likes by moderators just don't seem feasible. This includes moving people throughout the age groups.

Mewstor said:
I just went and copy/pasted every message I had made on this thread but it stretched out to a length of a small novel, so I won't post it here.

WPM, now you are getting just the opinion of the people who posted last. If you (seemingly) don't care what I and some other members have posted in this thread (cause you apparently won't go looking for those posts) I can tell you, I am really disappointed in you as this forums admin. Tell me you've read my posts. Tell me you WANT to read my posts and I can PM you the whole lot!

Here's a small and insignificant summary of what I think (I really suggest reading all of the messages)

-No age groups cause that would be age discrimination.
-It WILL drive away the young members cause they will have to interact almost solely with n00bs and other inexperienced members.
-They can't learn anything talking only with n00bs and people of their own age who also know nothing.
-Make groups only for the noobs and the elites. Everyone else stays in the normal members group.
-Get a spine! Mod more! Ban more! Be tough!!!
-Stop looking for the easy answer cause there ain't one!!!
-Take it from an admin that has run a Nintendos official forum that has 2660 members for two years.
-This is a bad idea!
-Warn system would be great, but apparently undoable.

I'm just trying to help! Really! Honestly! I'm getting tired of writing post that are over 30 lines long and the one person who should really be reading them is not even really paying attention, just dwelling in his own idea seeing absolutely nothing wrong with it. Even when people keep saying "No, I don't like it", It wouldn't be a good idea" and giving explanations why!
I'm not saying you have to start doing as I say. I'm not the admin here. I just want to have a real conversation with WPM about the views I have in this matter, why WPM thinks they will not work (with explanations!) Why am I writing the 30 line messages here and WPM comes and ask for a summary!!!

If this is too hard to read WPM and my message gets deleted (like once before) then I take it as that you don't want me here. And I'll succumb to that. I have my own forum to run. I took helping this forum as one passion in my life and I'm talking to empty walls. I have my limits and that limit is getting too close, too fast.

Maybe your really do need to just "get tougher". Appoint some new mods and start facing the nOOb problem head on.
 

Noobnerd

~I see a little silhouetto of a man~
Member
Right now, there are no reports, so it's fine. But there is one thing NO ONE can handle. Lack of knowledge. You cannot force people to read up on guides and learn stuff. They'll be stuck with thinking Hyper Beam and Giga Attack are the best moves in the game. There are no rules against this, so it's impossible to stop.
 
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