A little confused over the whole thing

Spindry

Spindry

Lover of odd pokemon
Member
I've enjoyed pokemon for years, and trained several pokemon along the way, memorizing moves and abilities and so on, but when I sign on to the global random match up, it seems that I just can't win.
Now, I never believed in EV training and I feel that it is a sort of "accepted cheating" if you will. I only say that because you have to have a mass of time on your hands to do it, and if you do it, you're almost guaranteed a win over someone who doesn't have the time to do so.
So I'm wondering if there are different tiers or places for more fun and casual battling or perhaps a competition I can play in where every person doesn't have a garchomp and hydregion on their team, or am I just better off never playing against other people?:(
 
Well there are, but they will IV and EV train in there too. As for time, with a power item, such as Power Anklet, speed training against basculin takes maybe 30 minutes, and 45 for SP Attack. It isnt cheating at all. But not EV training will almost guarantee a loss.
 
Honestly, Spindry, it doesn't take that long to EV train Pokemon. I suggest finding the best places/Pokemon to train against. I just EV trained my Skarmory in Emerald and it only took about 40 minutes.
Also, I think it's a little ridiculous to call it "accepted cheating". Every Pokemon in the VGCs is EV trained and it's a Nintendo event.
 
It's definitely not cheating, haha. A system built into the game to do something specific is in no way cheating.
As everyone else said, EV training isn't hard or time-consuming either. I really recommend that you get into competitive play properly, but if you really feel you can't do it, then just play with friends and stuff. I play my friends using un-EV'd teams, and it's still fun.
 
EV training is a heck of a lot easier than breeding for IVs which many players will also do. Just catching a Pokemon with the right nature makes a big difference off the bat, with a 10% boost to a vital stat. EVs are huge though, without them this isn't really "competitive battling".
 
With Rare candies, power items, and knowledge of what I'm doing, I can EV a Pokemon and Lv up to 100 in 15 min tops. It usually takes about half an hour, but even so, its definitely worth it.
 
So if I didn't breed for IVs but I did for natures, would I still have a fair chance of winning? (And using EVs as well.) 'Coz it seems a bit time consuming to breed for IVs.
 
Most of my pokemon have the natures that I want and the IVs aswell, which makes them plenty stronger than they would have been otherwise, but honestly, I call this a sort of cheating, and not flat out cheating, because I realize that a lot of people manipulate the game mechanic and it doesn't require any outside program to use.
But it was to my knowledge that when EV training was discovered, that it was initially invented so that no two pokemon would be the same, and that they would have different stats depending on what battles they experienced in the games. I don't find any attachment to a pokemon who I just sat around and killed 40 bidoofs with and then rare candied up.
But that's not the point so much, sorry if it offends some of you with the choice of words I used, but you have to know that without someone finding each and every pokemon's Ev value and the people going into the gamecodes to figure out how it exactly it works, no one would be using it. Sort of takes some of the magic out of the game. Same goes for sites detailing pokemon that aren't even officially released IE Genosect and so forth.


Enough of my soap box talk though, I simply was curious if there was a place around here, or elsewhere, that people had more believable pokemon without maxed out stats that just play for fun, because otherwise there's no bounty in playing other players for me.
 
Can you please stop calling it cheating. It's hard work trying to breed for IVs and EV training. Cheating would be using something like an action replay to get perfect IVs. Saying EV training and IV breeding is cheating is like saying that someone who works really hard just to put food on the table for his family is cheating at life.

I'm afraid the closest you will come to what you're asking for is to just battle with your friends, like 6-D says he does. However, if you want to get into real competitive battling, you need to really change your perspective of battling and try breeding for IVs and EV training. If you don't think you're up to that challenge, then I really suggest you try a online simulator, like Pokemon Online.

Just my two cents.
 
Fine, not cheating, outside-influence progression that would not normally occur in the game in and itself then.
Not to mention how carrying on about how training your pokemon is the same as working an actual job is just asinine. I didn't come here to argue though. Just to see what this whole competitive play is about. Now I see that it's less about what I personally enjoy about the game, and more about, well, I rather not say how I feel about it as to not upset anyone here.
Thanks for showing me a reaction I wasn't quite expecting, all the same.
 
Spindry said:
Fine, not cheating, outside-influence progression that would not normally occur in the game in and itself then.
Click to expand...
...but it does occur in the game. Whenever you beat a Patrat on Route 1, you gain one Attack EV. Whenever you beat a Petilil in Pinwheel Forest, you gain one Special Attack EV. That's how the system works.

Spindry said:
Not to mention how carrying on about how training your pokemon is the same as working an actual job is just asinine.
Click to expand...
I was carrying on? Weird. ;D

Anyways, it's just an analogy. If you aren't going to try hard, you might as well not try at all. Those people you play online are examples of hard work. By complaining that it's not fair that you can't win a battle just because of their hard work and your disbelief of that hard work, you're really not improving your situation. Multiple times people have tried to help you. A lot of us have suggested that you just breed for good IVs and try EV training, 6-Dimension and I suggested that you just try battling with friends, and that's really all that you can do if you really want to improve. Nobody here is trying to derail you from competitive battling. We're all trying to help you.

Spindry said:
I didn't come here to argue though. Just to see what this whole competitive play is about. Now I see that it's less about what I personally enjoy about the game, and more about, well, I rather not say how I feel about it as to not upset anyone here.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is arguing with you. We're just trying to help you, but you're rather making it hard to do so. The thing that is happening here is that your perspective is "I refuse to believe that EV training is fair" and because you're using that, we really can't get our opinions across. I, for one, think it would be best if you removed that perspective and used the "I'm open to ideas, changes, and criticism" perspective. Unless you do that, this entire discussion is useless because you're really just ignoring our ideas and substituting in your own.

Also, nobody will be upset if you give your opinion. It's not like we're competitive battling Nazis trying to shove our opinions down your throat. We're all trying to help you. :D
 
My apologies. There's not much excuse for being on the defensive over the whole thing, but I do wish someone would agree with me that you require outside information that is not listed in the official game in order to abuse the way that EVs are brought into your pokemon. I understand how it works and all, and it was just my belief that EVs are so that your pokemon could gain more strength through the pokemon they encounter throughout a normal game-play, and that by making it battle only one kind of pokemon that it you learned from some website gives you 3 Attack Evs, that you're kind of abusing the game's mechanic a little.
Though, the same could be said about learning what pokemon's egg moves are from the internet.

Again, my apologies, and there are other things in my life to blame for such an angry output, which none of you truly deserve. Usually i'm much more civil, but today I have been humbled.

From what I understand about EV training however, it's that all of the Pokemon that are now in my white version, (whom have been with me through various other versions all the way back to 2003), have already gained EVs from a normal play through, and they can't have those changed, meaning that all 50 or so of them have little place in the competitive battling world, and that if I want to EV train, I should catch or breed all new pokemon whom will have never received any EVs. Is this correct?
 
Generally, but not absolutely. See, EV-reducing berries are coded in-game to... reduce your EVs. And with BW, you can technically EV train at level 100 with this method (it's because the EVs are calculated when you finish a battle this time, not when you level-up). Only problem? The EV reducing berries are currently impossible to get in BW, through the DW or otherwise. It is speculated that they may come at a later time to the DW, be in a newer game, or just be completely forgotten about altogether.

In short, yes.
 
Chariblaze said:
Generally, but not absolutely. See, EV-reducing berries are coded in-game to... reduce your EVs. And with BW, you can technically EV train at level 100 with this method (it's because the EVs are calculated when you finish a battle this time, not when you level-up). Only problem? The EV reducing berries are currently impossible to get in BW, through the DW or otherwise. It is speculated that they may come at a later time to the DW, be in a newer game, or just be completely forgotten about altogether.

In short, yes.
Click to expand...

That's mighty depressing to hear, and I've also heard that there are errors for AR uses trying to get the berries as well. I suppose that if that's how it has to be though, that's it for me. Thanks for the information I suppose. :(
 
The AR doesn't mess up a game.
The codes that people mindlessly pump into a game might.

As for EVing, you said it isnt right because its not listed out officially. Well that is why nintendo calls it 'Hidden Mechanics'
Just like in any game, Pokemon uses equations and other hidden means in order to keep the game running in an organized way. All trainers do is use these as an advantage.

You do not need an AR to EV train, IV breed, Nature breed, etc.
 
The only really unfair thing about this is raising a Pokemon like Garchomp, only to find it's completely banned the next day (i.e. banlists).
 
Tortonic said:
The only really unfair thing about this is raising a Pokemon like Garchomp, only to find it's completely banned the next day (i.e. banlists).
Click to expand...

Sorry, bro, but Garchomp most likely won't be banned this generation. It's a much more different enviroment from last gen, and it really isn't built where Chomp overcentalizes it like he did last generation. Don't get me wrong; Chomp is a huge threat, but not as huge as he was last generation.

In summary; stop being so stereotypical, silly. ;P
 
TheDarkLucario said:
Tortonic said:
The only really unfair thing about this is raising a Pokemon like Garchomp, only to find it's completely banned the next day (i.e. banlists).
Click to expand...

Sorry, bro, but Garchomp most likely won't be banned this generation. It's a much more different enviroment from last gen, and it really isn't built where Chomp overcentalizes it like he did last generation. Don't get me wrong; Chomp is a huge threat, but not as huge as he was last generation.

In summary; stop being so stereotypical, silly. ;P
Click to expand...
I was only saying an example about what happened in 4th gen...
 
It's still possible to win without dedicated EV and IV investment, although naturally it's significantly harder to do so. It's your call as to how you choose to raise your Pokemon, although I will say that there's a lot of enjoyment to be had crafting a monster with buff IVs and EVs.

If playing against the standards isn't your thing, maybe try out the UnderUsed tier? As the name implies, only the lesser seen Pokemon are used here. 5th gen is still in its infancy so I'm not sure the statistics have piled up high enough to determine what is and isn't popular, but I'd recommend giving it a look in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top