Event 2016/17 London Internationals

Robert Belli

Robert Belli

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Not sure how accurate it is but heres a list I found.

Day 1 Results

1. Attar Rico (ID) [8-1-0] – Volcanion EX
2. Alex Hill (US) [8-1-0] – Vespiquen AOR/Zebstrika BKP/Garbodor BKP
3. Yee Wei Chun (MY) [8-1-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
4. Michael Pramawat (US) [8-1-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
5. Tord Reklev (NO) [7-0-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
6. Nicklas Danielsen (DK) [7-1-1] – M Mewtwo EX (Y)/Magearna EX
7. Brent Tonnisson (AU) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
8. Jordan Palmer (AU) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
9. Philip Schulz (DE) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
10. Javier Gamboa (CL) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
11. Israel Sosa (US) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
12. Mikael Jacobs (NO) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
13. Frank Diaz (US) [7-2-0] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
14. Drew Kennett (US) [7-2-0] – Greninja BREAK
15. Martin Janous (CZ) [7-2-0] – Houndoom EX/Bunnelby PRC/Raticate EVO
16. Jesper Eriksen (DK) [6-1-2] – Rainbow Road
17. Sameer Sangwan (AU) [6-1-2] – M Mewtwo EX/Magearna EX
18. Jacob Lesage (CA) [6-1-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
19. Pedro Eugenia Torres (ES) [6-1-2] – Volcanion EX
20. Miguel Ami (ES) [6-1-2] – Volcanion EX
21. Scot Symonds (UK) [6-1-2] – Gyarados Theta AOR
22. Jonathan Fabrizio Bellucci Lanciano (AR) [6-1-2] – Volcanion EX
23. Steven Mao (DE) [6-1-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
24. Martin Belohlavel (CZ) [6-1-2] – Rainbow Road
25. Kryzystof Lesik (PL) [6-1-2] – M Rayquaza EX
26. Mees Brenninkmeijer (NL) [6-1-2] – Greninja BREAK
27. Tristan Wagner [6-2-1] – Zygarde EX/Carbink BREAK/Vileplume AOR
28. Justin Bokhari (US) [5-0-4] – Greninja BREAK
29. Grafton Roll (US) [6-2-1] – Greninja BREAK
30. Felipe Ponce (BR) [6-2-1] – M Mewtwo EX/Garbodor BKP
31. Laurens Van Brecht (NL) [6-2-1] – Vespiquen AOR/Zebstrika BKP
32. Tyler Ninomura (US) [6-2-1] – Jolteon EX/Lugia EX/Magearna EX/Garbodor BKP

Top 8 (Before Cut)

1. Yee Wei Chun (MY) [11-1-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
2. Grafton Roll (US) [10-2-2] – Greninja BREAK
3. Philip Schulz (DE) [10-2-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
4. Pedro Eugenio Torres (ES) [10-2-2] – Volcanion EX
5. Jacob Lesage (CA) [10-2-2] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
6. Attar Ricco (ID) [10-3-1] – Volcanion EX
7. Michael Pramawat (US) [10-3-1] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
8. Tord Reklev (NO) [9-1-4] – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP

Day 2 Standings (After Cut)

1. Michael Pramawat (US) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
2. Jacob Lesage (CA) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
3. Philip Schulz (DE) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
4. Tord Reklev (NO) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
5. Yee Wei Chun (MY) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
6. Grafton Roll (US) – Greninja BREAK
7. Pedro Eugenio Torres (ES) – Volcanion EX
8. Attar Ricco (ID) – Volcanion EX

9. Alex Hill (US) – Vespiquen AOR/Zebstrika BKP/Garbodor BKP
10. Martin Janous (CZ) – Houndoom EX/Bunnelby PRC/Raticate EVO
11. Jonathan Fabrizio Bellucci Lanciano (AR) – Volcanion EX
12. Drew Kennett (US) – Greninja BREAK
13. Frank Diaz (US) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
14. Nicklas Danielsen (DK) – M Mewtwo EX (Y)/Magearna EX
15. Mikael Jacobs (NO) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
16. Javier Gamboa (CL) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
17. Israel Sosa (US) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
T32. Brent Tonisson (AU) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
T32. Jordan Palmer (AU) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
T32. Jesper Eriksen (DK) – Rainbow Road
T32. Sameer Sangwan (AU) – M Mewtwo EX (Y)/Magearna EX
T32. Miguel Ami (ES) – Volcanion EX
T32. Scot Symonds (UK) – Gyarados Theta AOR
T32. Steven Mao (DE) – Yveltal/Garbodor BKP
T32. Martin Belohlavek (CZ) – Rainbow Road
T32. Krysztof Lesik (PL) – M Rayquaza EX
T32. Mees Brenninkmeijer (NL) – Greninja BREAK
T32. Tristan Wagner (NL) – Zygarde EX/Carbink BREAK/Vileplume AOR
T32. Justin Bokhari (US) – Greninja BREAK
T32. Felipe Ponce (BR) – M Mewtwo EX (Y)/Garbodor BKP
T32. Laurens van Brecht (NL) – Vespiquen AOR/Zebstrika BKP
T32. Tyler Ninomura (US) – Jolteon EX/Lugia EX/Magearna EX/Garbodor BKP
 
Sheesh. If that list is accurate, I think it pretty much crushes any notion that Yveltal/Garbodor BKP isn't the top deck in Standard. I mean, that is pretty insane!

Any idea on the number of decks entered rolling that combo?
 
"EXs arent broken"
"Garbador is healthy for the game"
"Tool removal cards are too powerful"

-Random users in other threads

I took a year off from pokemon TCG and this is what we get, no variation in decks in the top 8. 3 Decks made top 8, that just tells you where we sit in the meta. When cards like Volcanion, and Greninja were made to try to balance out the meta, we just get some broken card that has no counter and if you try to use a counter you just get punished the next turn. Garb is broken, and it is ruining the meta. I think people need to open their eyes. Yveltal decks wouldnt be as prevalant and we could actually see some variation in decks if all abilities could exist after turn 2. I also give props to the Greninja break guy in top 8. I can just imagine the frustration coming from him when he sees his top 8
 
Yeah why does Pokemon even bother coming up with cards with cool abilities anymore? And then they print something like Tsareena. Seriously, who's in quality control at that place?
 
21times said:
Yeah why does Pokemon even bother coming up with cards with cool abilities anymore? And then they print something like Tsareena. Seriously, who's in quality control at that place?
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like its been 4 months since rotation, we are guaranteed not to have any cards that remove tools in standard for the foreseeable 5 months. Theres no creativity, its like we just throw the best cards without abilities and garbador together and bang you have a good standard deck. Meanwhile people trying to be creative and add pokemon with cool abilities that could make good decks are just giving up because theres no point. Youre gonna come to a tournament and this is the roster youre gonna have to go up against. When garb comes in thats it. We got beedrill EX, but like that takes a tool off, and doesnt do any damage. Its useless. Itll get one shot 8/10 times and then youre down two prizes. Garb is broken, it has no place in the format. I would like a simple tool removal card, or I would like to see garb banned until one comes out. If they wanted to see what impact Garb actually has without a tool removal card, they definitely got their answer. Its ruined the meta, like item lock last year, it ruined the meta. We dont need anymore locks that cant be turned off (Quaking punch before ranger). It needs to stop, they need to ban Garb
 
Latte1504 said:
So, you like Greninja being the only viable deck? That's how it would be without Garb.
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No thats completely wrong, greninja was fine when there was garb and tool removal. It wasnt even a tier 1 deck. There are other decks like Yanmega, decks that would use Clawitzer, Decks that could utilise dragonite ex, Magnezone, Machamp, Klefki, Unown, Manaphy EX, Both Mews, Octillery, Mew EX, Omastar, Raikou, Regirock EX, Sceptile, Shaymin EX promo, Weavile, Vileplume, Zoroark, and Zebstrika to name a few. All these cards have abilites that could kinda be competitive and some of them even keep them competitive. All of those cards become dead weight and easy prizes when those abilities get locked.

When the new Alolan muk comes out I hope that they finally end our suffering and kill Garb. His time is up, looking at this at least people worked around and built decks around Night March. Looks like with Garb it seems to be if you cant beat them join them. He makes the decks one weakness (Greninja Break) an auto win. Thats not fair, that is the definition of a broken card. It makes all its matchups better. It also has no bad matchups.

@crystal_pidgeot I think you were right about banning this card.
 
Pokemon could do better. Balance is hard to come by. They need someone to come in and Lean Six Sigma their Quality Control because they struggle way to often in these areas. If you constantly struggle in these areas, there is a process breakdown in their quality control. Why they struggle in their quality control is usually because they have not identified their root cause correctly. Whatever the root cause is in that company should be dissected for proper corrective actions.

This is not a card issue, this a deeper issue within the company itself. Every year this happens, which means their root cause is not identified. For someone that works in this field, it is absolutely fascinating.

Kudos to crystal_Pidgeot -- I believed he called the Garbador issue early on. The next step is to identify the root cause through quality control measures.
 
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It wasn't my goal to be right. Just as a game designer myself, balance is something I work hard on and if I can achieve that balance, the game becomes fun. I've played Yugioh for years and this has always been a issue with the game and such effect are always over-dominate. Their first ban list was their best ban list. I don't think Garbodor is super bad for the game, considering they have a built in way to stop it but they only reprinted the ability because they knew Greninja BREAK was broken. The best thing for them to do now is to just remove both those cards from the game and hard errata some Pokemon with abilities.
 
Toally agree poke4trade. You've said it perfectly: there is a process breakdown in their quality control.
 
Xerosic reprint or tool scrapper (remove 2 tools) in supporter form would make the game alot better, it will make more decks competitive.
I say xerosic or tool scrapper because megaphone is op in this meta.
 
I would also love to see a Xerosic or Tool Scrapper reprint. That would go a long way toward bringing balance to the current meta. As it stands, it feels very bland and uncreative. Don't get me wrong, that Yveltal deck would be strong even with tool removal, but it wouldn't be this dominant.
 
I don't really think it's only garbodors fault TBH.
If you look at the list you can see, there are only three other decks with garbodor and these are all unique.

Even without tool removal cards you can lysandre garbodor out and knock it out and then most decks don't have more than a 2-2 line and mostly they discard one of them if garbodor is set up.
It's just that Yveltal-EX is really powerful and the Fright Night Yveltal is really powerful, too. And since everybody does rely on tool cards that much in the current meta (because they are pretty good) the Fright Night Yveltal is even stronger. And at the moment is no Joltik or Mega Manectric here to stop Yveltal. There is just no meta electric type Pokémon. Sure Magnezone could do something but stage 2 Pokémon which are only played for there abilities aren't strong anyway (except for Vileplume because Item Lock is super strong and there is GPF).

They should just release some strong electric types again and the Yveltal problem is gone, but I wouldn't mind any tool removal card either.
 
Yumikora said:
I don't really think it's only garbodors fault TBH.
If you look at the list you can see, there are only three other decks with garbodor and these are all unique.

Even without tool removal cards you can lysandre garbodor out and knock it out and then most decks don't have more than a 2-2 line and mostly they discard one of them if garbodor is set up.
It's just that Yveltal-EX is really powerful and the Fright Night Yveltal is really powerful, too. And since everybody does rely on tool cards that much in the current meta (because they are pretty good) the Fright Night Yveltal is even stronger. And at the moment is no Joltik or Mega Manectric here to stop Yveltal. There is just no meta electric type Pokémon. Sure Magnezone could do something but stage 2 Pokémon which are only played for there abilities aren't strong anyway (except for Vileplume because Item Lock is super strong and there is GPF).

They should just release some strong electric types again and the Yveltal problem is gone, but I wouldn't mind any tool removal card either.
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Releasing a super strong electric type Pokemon will create problems for other electric weak Pokemon. The best counter to them right now is Zebstrika since it nukes any electric weak Pokemon in the game. The problem with the game is Garbodor pairs well with powerful attackers.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
Releasing a super strong electric type Pokemon will create problems for other electric weak Pokemon. The best counter to them right now is Zebstrika since it nukes any electric weak Pokemon in the game. The problem with the game is Garbodor pairs well with powerful attackers.
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The main issue is that Zebs ability is what makes it what it is. Its also useless when garb comes in. Something like jolteon AOR would also be useful if its ability didn't get killed. I think that banning both Greninja Break and Garb would lead to a better meta as we go into Sun and Moon. I also want to say that giratina should be the answer to Greninja break. The deck becomes useless with it in play. So I guess when it finally comes into format we should be okay to shun Garb and remove it for good.
 
superdan51 said:
The main issue is that Zebs ability is what makes it what it is. Its also useless when garb comes in. Something like jolteon AOR would also be useful if its ability didn't get killed. I think that banning both Greninja Break and Garb would lead to a better meta as we go into Sun and Moon. I also want to say that giratina should be the answer to Greninja break. The deck becomes useless with it in play. So I guess when it finally comes into format we should be okay to shun Garb and remove it for good.
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And then Yveltal becomes the BDIF.
 
superdan51 said:
The main issue is that Zebs ability is what makes it what it is. Its also useless when garb comes in. Something like jolteon AOR would also be useful if its ability didn't get killed. I think that banning both Greninja Break and Garb would lead to a better meta as we go into Sun and Moon. I also want to say that giratina should be the answer to Greninja break. The deck becomes useless with it in play. So I guess when it finally comes into format we should be okay to shun Garb and remove it for good.
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Zebstrika doesn't need its ability to OHKO Yveltal EX. Crashing Bolt does 60 more damage to a Pokemon with a fighting resistance, which hits them for 220 with weakness. You just play it and attach a DCE and you KO them. As for Greninja, it still has room for counter play. It has to play Silent Lab to beat Giratina.
 
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