Discussion State of Standard - CEC

[jamashawalker]

True but remember they'll still have to compete with everything we already had plus the new stuff in Sword & Shield. As or more important is the new T1 rule about no Supporters. I don't like it, because the problem is certain T1 Supporters and Pokémon. Which I think the designers were more than a little foolish to create and release in the first place.

Sorry been on vacation from the holidays. We all know how that song and dance goes (HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO EVERYONE)

Even though I would love to continue on this conversation about the previous stuff, it was a while ago. So I'll just be referring to this quote referring towards quick ball, Evolution incense, and T1 Supporter rule. Because we are heading into the SwSh metagame in about a month.

You are correct about them competing with already previous stuff, but the previous stuff (TTGXs) already have consistency searchable items that are better than Quick Ball.
While I take google with a grain of salt when he says "WINNING DECKLIST" lol His videos have shown recently that previous Stage 2s that were hindered by consistency are now better. Not regional winning better, but playable better

Towards the newer stuff coming out. This makes me the most excited because we can look at cards like Rillaboom/Perrserker etc. and not have to worry about how we are going to get them out consistently. Yeah all of the new V-cards will use Quick ball. Still that's great for them because we don't want to step into a metagame where it's difficult to get them into play.

T1 Supporter rule. Couldn't agree with you more. This is a bad idea. Hindsight it does do great against a T1 Marnie but at what cost do we ask?

Now I have question for everyone, Would people prefer a metagame where Non-V/GX pokemon aren't the focus of the attackers but support pokemon like Perrserker/Rillaboom etc. and V/Vmaxs are the only good attackers? Pros/Cons to this?

 

[Yaginku]

T1 Supporter rule. Couldn't agree with you more. This is a bad idea. Hindsight it does do great against a T1 Marnie but at what cost do we ask?

My take on the T1 Supporter rule is that - we have not tested it yet, but it's possible that the player "going second" is supposed to be the real player going first.

What do I mean? Instead of thinking of the first turn as "the first turn", think of it as a bonus, really crappy turn for the T2 player to set up and get one energy ahead. If we are thinking of choosing to go second as the "correct" option, then both options seem more balanced.

 

[Otaku]

@jamashawalker I am more optimistic about wanting to run Evolutions post Sword & Shield, though more due to Evolution Incense than Quick Ball. If the reports out of Japan I am hearing are correct, I (probably) wasn't giving raw draw power enough credit for making Quick Ball as important as it seems to be to future Evolution-focused decks. Not enough that we'll abandon all our multi-Basic-search Supporters, but decks that can and need them will use both.

So... yeah, Evolutions should be better, at least for a time, than they have been lately. That shift happens so often, though, so I don't expect it to last, either.

Shifting gears a bit, @Yaginku I appreciate you trying to be positive and offer a new perspective but it ain't a new perspective. People have said that anytime we get new T1 rules that restrict what Player 1 can do. If it would work for more than the short term, I might even accept it... but it hasn't worked for the long term. Either going second becomes "too good" or we figure out how to "break" T1 again, even under the new constraints. Which is why I think the real answer lies in having proper pacing and no special T1 rules, but with a minor revision to the rules of Evolution. Make is so that you cannot manually Evolve a Pokémon unless it was in play during your opponent's previous turn. Player 1 cannot evolve on their first turn but Player 2 can Evolve anything they opened with... but this also assumed PCL is balancing everything else out. Which might be even more pie-in-the-sky thinking than what I'm opposing. XP