Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

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NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Ugh I think Keeper is scum but I know lynching Zone just wins the game. Whatever if Zone isn't scum, scum can just vote with me and no lynch gets forced and we both win.
Keeper, remember I'm also confirmed not a threat. Thx Jplap.
How is it possible that the role I posted is a safe-claim if my last 3 abilities have been proven to be used?
Can you please define safeclaim for me and can nobody define it for him?
 

Mariano11887

Goalkeeper
Member
Ugh I think Keeper is scum but I know lynching Zone just wins the game. Whatever if Zone isn't scum, scum can just vote with me and no lynch gets forced and we both win.
Keeper, remember I'm also confirmed not a threat. Thx Jplap.
If Keeper isn't lynched today, I'll kill him tonight. Just know it.
By the way, NP can you please vote me and unvote me to have another option for my ability? ... You won't do it, right? ;)

Can you please define safeclaim for me and can nobody define it for him?
Safe-claim is the additional fake role a scum member receives with his real role, with the purpose of having something "beleivable" to claim in the game thread. That's the concept I have.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
If Keeper isn't lynched today, I'll kill him tonight. Just know it.
Wait lol I just realized if you're town just vote Zone with me and kill Keeper tonight if he is indeed lynchproof. Then you get them both dead.
By the way, NP can you please vote me and unvote me to have another option for my ability? ... You won't do it, right? ;)
Their wincon involves them lynching scum and getting out of the PoE. Mine involves surviving. Large difference.
Safe-claim is the additional fake role a scum member receives with his real role, with the purpose of having something "beleivable" to claim in the game thread. That's the concept I have.
And why/why not can your role possibly be a safeclaim?
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
My case on you was already exposed. In case your claimed role is true, you didn't play with a town mentality and you only worried about surviving, there was no need to lie about your Farewell Ability.
I may have lied about killing my attacker to drive them off attacking me, but I am a bomb. This is already claimed.

But if you are scum, of course it gives you an excellent excuse to be alive right now. "Yay, scum didn't kill me because they knew they'd lose a member".
Duh.

- As town, if you see someone scummy, would you not lynch him because you know his Farewell Ability affects the town negatively? No! And if your response is yes, how do you plan to win if is not by lynching scum??
I feel like this already came up in the case against Jabber, where either he or Celever were good targets and we'd have to get both out. So with the information we had that Jabber dying buffed scum, it was more beneficial to town to lynch Celever first to be sure. It ended up wrong in the end, with both being town, but it was a solid point. So, yes, if someone is scummy and helps scum by dying, then of course I'd rather lynch the other candidate if there is more than one.

- As scum, knowing many player's Farewell Abilities, who do you choose to kill? Of course the one with the Farewell Ability that is less harmfull for Mafia.
Do you see the difference in the utility of knowing Farewell Abilities?
I do, but you don't, and I get that because you only know yours and your buddy's now thanks to Camo (and those that were on his wagon, I suppose). But me knowing Farewell abilities of targets has been extremely helpful all game for me and has influenced every single one of my votes. Just because you don't know how to use the info as town (which makes sense, because you aren't town, so I don't fault you for that) doesn't mean I don't.

Yeah, my safe-claim is a JOAT with abilities that have been proven to be used during the game. Because it's obvious scum can use abilities from their safe-claims. (It's sarcasm, in case you didn't notice).
...Every single scum has had shared abilities in their actual and safe-claims, so I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. Either of them could have easily "proved" their abilities. It's clear you're grasping at straws.

How is it possible that the role I posted is a safe-claim if my last 3 abilities have been proven to be used?
Read above. All of Camo's JOAT abilities were present in his safe-claim. So if he had "put on a show" for everyone and it lined up with his Rarity claim, we should have believed him? Is that what you're saying?

And the first one (the vig) I tried to use it on Drac and failed, which then PMJ said he had some kind of protection and should not have been lynched.
If my vig ability had no requirements, why would I have not used it last night?
Somebody did die last night, if you recall. If I'm right (and I am, it seems) then your ability is either tied to the nightkill, or DOES have requirements. Your argument here means nothing.

Ha, more evidence to think that your ability to read Farewell Abilities is designed to be used on town members, because the moment Camo dies, scum know their own FAs.
How would I have known that, if I were scum? Why wouldn't I have looked into myself and my team first? Why would scum have a contingency plan to see Farewell abilities unless they had no way of doing it themselves?
To further my point, I looked into Camo after he was subbed in and shared my result. It was his safe-claim result. There's no way I'd have that result at all unless I could see safe-claims, which would be useless to scum. So unless I fabricated the whole result for some reason, that further proves my role and alignment.

You have no case, and you have no defense. You are the scum.
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
I don't like the short timer on this. Zone isn't active enough and NP is too passive. Mariano is slowly losing his defense and I'm just now gathering the evidence. I just need time to prove it to them both, and for them to realize it. But I'll do my best. @Zone Q11 I want you to carefully look my last posts over and reconsider your vote.

Ugh I think Keeper is scum but I know lynching Zone just wins the game. Whatever if Zone isn't scum, scum can just vote with me and no lynch gets forced and we both win.
You playing with your feelings without looking at the evidence piling up against Mariano.

If Keeper isn't lynched today, I'll kill him tonight. Just know it.
If I'm not lynched today that means you are.

Safe-claim is the additional fake role a scum member receives with his real role, with the purpose of having something "beleivable" to claim in the game thread. That's the concept I have.
...Concept? You have seen two of them already (three, counting your own).

Wait lol I just realized if you're town just vote Zone with me and kill Keeper tonight if he is indeed lynchproof. Then you get them both dead.
PMJ just confirmed that if scum isn't lynched today they win. I don't think we have another night phase.

And why/why not can your role possibly be a safeclaim?
He's hinging on his proved abilities proving his claim, but as I just pointed out any of the scum could have done that just as easily.
 

PMJ

happy thoughts
Forum Head
Articles Head
Elite Member
Advanced Member
Member
You guys have had quite a while. Day would be over if it had been a normal day.

The game is not immediately over at night, but nothing can stop the double kill that is coming.
 

PMJ

happy thoughts
Forum Head
Articles Head
Elite Member
Advanced Member
Member
To clarify, town needs at least one member alive to claim victory.
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
PMJ is confirming there is a double-kill. Which means Mariano does have a kill ability.
She's also saying that both town will be killed with the double-kill, which means the double-kill must belong to scum.
No matter how you slice it, Mariano is the only one that fits the bill. If none of my previous evidence is enough for you, this has to be.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
PMJ is confirming there is a double-kill. Which means Mariano does have a kill ability.
She's also saying that both town will be killed with the double-kill, which means the double-kill must belong to scum.
No matter how you slice it, Mariano is the only one that fits the bill. If none of my previous evidence is enough for you, this has to be.
Cough cough it's BB's Farewell Ability cough cough.
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
Ah, I misread his thinking it wouldn't activate. But technically it doesn't skip LYLO, so you're right. So feel free to read over all the other evidence, NP.
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
Really NP, is that ll you had to say? Nothing helpful?
Where is Zone?

All Mariano has to do is let the thread die from your low activity because he's winning in the vote race atm. We have a day.
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
...alright. 13 Hours and 30 minutes left.
I have awoken from my sleep and now I have been given more arguments from Keeper than Mariano.
...I'll be fair here: I mainly voted Keeper bacause of lack of evidence, but now that he has given the arguments... well, for starters:
##UNVOTE
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
Being left at a tie will leave us with no vote, which ends with us losing anyway, Zone.
Well, do you have any better ideas then? Voting Mariano?
...sigh. I am just tired of this debate now. Let's just see what happens.
##VOTE Mariano11887
If it turns out that I am wrong... well, gg I guess.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Yes actually this is I'll I'm going to do, Keeper. My vote is placed on Zone. I won't be online anymore to move it.
Town needs 3 votes for a majority lynch. You will not get those votes without me, and I'm on Zone. If you leave your votes on Mariano and Mariano really is scum, he can just swap to Zone and force a no lynch. Lynching anybody is better than lynching nobody and the only way you can lynch is from both @Keeper of Night and @Mariano11887 voting Zone.
Scum, if Zone is town, I expect some gratitude for this and you choosing to be a good person and spare me tonight. Thanks.
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
...I wonder. Can't we just force a No Lynch today and ask the scum to kill NP this Night?
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
...I wonder. Can't we just force a No Lynch today and ask the scum to kill NP this Night?
Yeah no this isn't gonna work. You force a no lynch today and scum just kills townies and ends the game. If they kill me, they risk Mariano vigging them and therefore town winning the game instead of the auto-win they'd have after a no lynch.
Sorry but you're not getting away this time.
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
Yeah no this isn't gonna work. You force a no lynch today and scum just kills townies and ends the game. If they kill me, they risk Mariano vigging them and therefore town winning the game instead of the auto-win they'd have after a no lynch.
Oh. Right. Double Kill. Forgot about that. You also forgot about one thing though.
Town needs 3 votes for a majority lynch.
While this is true, an alternative would be to simply wait until the deadline. Which is nine hours from now.

...hm? "Risk Mariano vigging them." "Therefore town winning the game." How are you so sure Mariano is not scum? I mean, I was too before Keeper convinced me, but Keeper's arguments are actually becoming more and more solid than Mariano's.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
While this is true, an alternative would be to simply wait until the deadline. Which is nine hours from now.
Yeah, but if Mariano or Keeper are scum, they just vote you in self-preservation so you're not going to lynch them if they're scum.
The only lynch that can be achieved today is you. It's that simple.
How are you so sure Mariano is not scum? I mean, I was too before Keeper convinced me, but Keeper's arguments are actually becoming more and more solid than Mariano's.
If Mariano is scum, then killing me is just rude when he's beating town either way after a no lynch due to the double kill.
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
Yeah, but if Mariano or Keeper are scum, they just vote you in self-preservation
This part I understand, but they won't achieve anything because of my Passive Ability.
so you're not going to lynch them if they're scum.
This part I don't understand. Why would I not lynch scum?
The only lynch that can be achieved today is you. It's that simple.
Again, this is not true. If nothing else happens within the next nine hours, then Mariano will get lynched. Right @PMJ? That is how voting works, right?
If Mariano is scum, then killing me is just rude when he's beating town either way after a no lynch due to the double kill.
If you ask me, scum should kill NP as well at Night as to claim the victory all for themselves.
But well, I don't know how scum act with an indie, so I suppose you are right.
 
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