Finished Mafia LI: Senate Subterfuge~Game Over!

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Jabberwock

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I just know your role name, so I'm not misinterpreting anything. Deducing alignment from that is something the town will have to do together.
Clearly you're misinterpreting it, because you took my role name and ran with it straight to the conclusion that I'm scum. That's incorrect, so you misinterpreted it.
GM Drac and mord are some of the more townier players in this game based on the gut of reading their fairly scarce posts.
Can you do any better than a gut reading? Robin has highlighted some specific scummy points in their posts; you might want to either acknowledge or refute those.
So I guess this is a no. So why isn't your vote on Jabberwock? He's confirmed mafia by his role name!
C'mon Cel. You've played this game long enough to know that what you've got is a pretty damn far cry from confirmation of anything.
And I don't think flavour dictates who is scum to be blunt. I'm sure a lot of reps could be read as scummy if you had a list. Half of Rome was stabbing each other in the back. I'd be pretty sure there's a Caesar and a Crassius around here somewhere, probably a Marc Antony too. How many mafians could there be?

It would be much wiser to base this on facts and reads.
This is a good post.
Scum off their own members for town cred so frequently that honestly it's sometimes better to look at who has voted for mafia over who hasn't. Like, I know it doesn't make a lot of rational sense, but it is true, somehow.
This is getting so far into a WIFOM mindset it's absurd.
there are literally 0 situations where, with this many players still alive, it's a better play to kill the person who reveals that another player is mafia rather than to kill the mafian. Like, literally 0. You trying to pretend there is is scummy, and is because you didn't expect your bud Jabs to get found.
You keep conflating role name with alignment. One is not entirely indicative of the other. Remember Luis' Harry Potter game from literal ages back where the role named Harry Potter was aligned with the scumteam?
 

PMJ

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He was converted, pretty sure.
 

Yog

Rogue
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You first did it during day three, which is more suspicious.

Ehh, you say it's sussy, I personally think it's reaching at best, Jabber says it's a good post. I don't feel like I need to defend my playstyle here at all. I am a sucker for these kinds of details and love a good tangent.
 

Mariano11887

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I don't agree at all with Celever's argument against Jabberwock. Knowing some player's role name and investigating if that character was a good or a bad person can give you some impression of him, like raising some alarms if you find he was a bad guy and therefore paying more attention to him, but in my opinion it can never be used as 100% accurate to determine that player's alignment in this game.
 

PMJ

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Ehh, you say it's sussy, I personally think it's reaching at best, Jabber says it's a good post.

The post he's talking about and the post I'm talking about are not the same post.
 

Acetrainer_Samwise

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Beetween Wrestling baseball and football I dont have to much time but if Morda was rolefishing in Jabbers chat as he says than thats super suspicous so for now ##MORDACAZIr
 

PMJ

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It's actually the entire point, you're saying that a canonically good character can be scum and that was a bad example of it since he started as town and was later converted.

A better example would be ww16 where I had all brawlers as town including villains like Bowser and ganondorf

Or the blank game where we got to pick our own characters
 

Robin Aisaga

Ginger Lillie > Regular Lillie
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I'd like the record to show that Robin has seen this post before going to bed.

This is pointless, except that it showed that the pressure went to your head. I did see your post, but decided to reply tomorrow. I'm allowed to reply when I see fit, it's that simple.

So I guess this is a no. So why isn't your vote on Jabberwock? He's confirmed mafia by his role name!

Filling in my answers now? This is just rude. It's not a clear yes or no. My character was in direct service of Pompey. That is reason enough for me to doubt that Jabber's role name confirms that he is scum. Besides the fact that you won't tell how you got his role name. Especially since you don't claim to be a clear seer. Also Jabber would be responsible for eliminating half of his team before the start of day 4. Nice going there.

Well, did they?

I'd like to point out role fishing here. Celever might be aiming for me to get the penalty for claiming. Whatever that may be.

GM Drac and mord are some of the more townier players in this game based on the gut of reading their fairly scarce posts.

Again, this is all you're going to bother with?

Also let's talk about Celever's scum vs scum theory for a bit.

Let it never be said I went down without a fight.

The main reason why it doesn't make sense is because PMJ was very close to being lynched himself. If it really was scums intention to lynch their member BBninjas, another member could've easily put another vote on him and even win town credits for it. But as you can see any of the inactives could've swayed the end result. Scum wouldn't let fate decide their supposedly well crafted plan.

Another reason would be that scum vs scum is just an incredibly stupid play this early in the game. They could've easily lycnhed another town before attempting this. Neither PMJ or BBninjas were set lynch candidates before their confrontation. Did they panick after losing just Tapu Lele? I don't think so.

The one that is panicking is Celever
 

Robin Aisaga

Ginger Lillie > Regular Lillie
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Forgot to mention this,

There is a very good explanation for the anti-claim measure and it being dangerous to reveal your role unnecessarily. It might very well be that the hosts intentionally included these questionable roles as the anti-claim measure.
 

Scattered mind

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I actually see the scumvsscum situation being true the same as the possibility that Celever is scum because
A) it is still kinda wifomy
B) Celever’s scum meta usually involves wifom. Although this game had a lot of wifom regardless.

Anyway, I was really surprised that bb ended up being scum.
Now we have a great lead indeed- Jabberwock and Celever. One of them is scum in my opinion
A) Celever claimed Jabber has a scummy role name with flavor that somewhat clashes with his.
B) PMJ defended Jabber - this is a really important point that can clear up things about the theory that PMJ is scum.

I am gonna ##VOTE:Celever

If he is town - that means Jab is scum , and if Jab is scum, (and the scum faction does not die) then PMJ is most likely the last scum.


And as for morda- I really don't understand the case- if it is only because he defended bbninjas, then I must reject it because I was also thinking that the case on bbninjas was really weird and came out of nowhere. It had some grounds, but still not much to go all out on him- I think there was more to it than just the fact he responded to Celever's theory that Lele might be town.
 

Scattered mind

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The main reason why it doesn't make sense is because PMJ was very close to being lynched himself. If it really was scums intention to lynch their member BBninjas, another member could've easily put another vote on him and even win town credits for it. But as you can see any of the inactives could've swayed the end result. Scum wouldn't let fate decide their supposedly well crafted plan.

Umm, that is exactly what happened.. with Jplap.
 

Robin Aisaga

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Umm, that is exactly what happened.. with Jplap.

Uhm yeah...? There were another 6 players that could've turned it into a tie at any time. Mordacazir and Mirdo were both remotely active and could've swayed it. You are talking as if you are certain about Jplap's intent? It's certainly worth looking into if the scum vs scum theory at some point turns out to be true.
 

Scattered mind

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Uhm yeah...? There were another 6 players that could've turned it into a tie at any time. Mordacazir and Mirdo were both remotely active and could've swayed it. You are talking as if you are certain about Jplap's intent? It's certainly worth looking into if the scum vs scum theory at some point turns out to be true.

I'm saying that his out of nowhere vote was really weird, considering it was his only play during the day and up until now.


scattered mind, PMJ, BBninjas, Tapu Lele scum team?

I truly have no idea why you put me there, but aside from myself- yes, if the scumvsscum theory is right, this would be the list (+jabber maybe)
 

Celever

Wheeeee~
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For all the times we've gone town vs town against each other you should know this is true. But even a stopped PMJ is right twice a day.
Then stop being so confident in them jc.
PMJ said:
I get that he confirmed your claim but that does mean he's mafia. This isn't like Tapu Lele where we had mod confirmation, this is just you speculating on alignment when it's unlikely there are any more scum roles left outside of Crassus and Caesar. I'll admit that if there were, that role name could be another, I guess, but I don't see 5 scum + 1 indie in a 20-man game.
Do you think Caesar is in this game? It hadn't crossed my mind before now, but I believe in the first certamen all of the questions were restricted to a pre-Caesar timescale. That heavily implies that this game is also set in a pre-Caesar timescale, and so the ringleader would be Pompey, meaning those who spent a lot of time and effort advancing Pompey's campaign are likely that mafia's supporting cast. So uh, Jabs.
PMJ said:
I'd rather lynch you, mord, even Yog over Jabber right now.
Yog is a curveball: why?
PMJ said:
It's clearly mafian but clearly isn't mafia because I don't believe the hosts would let you get around his safe claim with whatever you used to discern his role name, if not your own personal night action. The fact that you got that result means that Jibjab can't be scum unless you're willing to subscribe to the theory that the hosts would give him a scummy safe claim, knowing that they've been striving for historical accuracy.
I learned it through my ability but I'm not a role/name cop. There's no way the result is wrong, and has since been confirmed by Jabs, anyway.
PMJ said:
They would if they thought they could get out of it alive, and it's wifom reasoning so it's a perfect play. Notice that neither Celever nor bb actually voted for me until Samwise did, allowing them to piggyback off his double vote and push me into the lead. Celever's vote was on Samwise all day long and bb waited until Celever voted just to downplay the omgus factor as much as he could.
Stop trying to rewrite history when its so heavily recorded smh. I was vocal the entire day about how I didn't want to lynch you or bb and that another option entirely felt preferable to me. So my vote wasn't on you because I didn't want to lynch you. Yannow, what votes are used for.
Clearly you're misinterpreting it, because you took my role name and ran with it straight to the conclusion that I'm scum. That's incorrect, so you misinterpreted it.
No, misinterpretation implies that I'm not understanding language. The role name has been interpreted correctly -- you've confirmed this -- and the conclusion that you're mafia is because your role name is. If you want to refute the "misinterpretation", make a case that your role could be town.
Jabs said:
Can you do any better than a gut reading? Robin has highlighted some specific scummy points in their posts; you might want to either acknowledge or refute those.
Nah Robin's case is bad anyway, it literally amounts to speculation about his interactions with a mafian which no one should ever put stock into because mafians tend to be good at manipulation considering they're the informed minority and the town's headless. Due to a certamen prize (I'm not giving any more details than that b/c anti-claim mechanics) I have a decent confidence that mord is town.
Jabs said:
C'mon Cel. You've played this game long enough to know that what you've got is a pretty damn far cry from confirmation of anything.
No, I've played enough to know it's frustrating you've not been lynched already. I have your confirmed rolename, and unless you can provide a defence of your rolename via flavour, you don't have a defence at all yet.
Jabs said:
This is getting so far into a WIFOM mindset it's absurd.
Using WIFOM to undercut an argument is WIFOM, ironically, so stop. It's incredibly weak, besides.
Jabs said:
You keep conflating role name with alignment. One is not entirely indicative of the other. Remember Luis' Harry Potter game from literal ages back where the role named Harry Potter was aligned with the scumteam?
As PMJ said, he was converted, so no this is a bad example.
A better example would be ww16 where I had all brawlers as town including villains like Bowser and ganondorf

Or the blank game where we got to pick our own characters
These are better examples but still aren't good enough: if Jabber is town that would be the equivalent to Darth Vader being town in Squirtle Squad's Star Wars game, Voldemort being town in the Harry Potter game, or Bowser being town in Lorde's Mario game. I.E. he is a villain and this is a town vs villain setup -- one based on historical accuracy, at that.
 

Robin Aisaga

Ginger Lillie > Regular Lillie
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You are Marcus Porcius Cato Uticensis, and you are aligned with the Loyalists. Beloved by friends and enemies for being absolutely incorruptible, you are a paragon of excellence in this time. Though you are a member of the optimates, you really stand with whatever is in the best interests of the people, and that means stopping Caesar from a rise to power.

Passive Ability: Caesar Roadblock
You had constant and strong opposition to Caesar, for so often trying to take his own power and legal immunities through corrupt methods. At the beginning of N0, you will be given a list of fifteen players other than yourself. One of those players will be Caesar (who is aligned with the Triumvirate). Every time a player on that list dies and is not Caesar, you will cross off another name on the list that also is not Caesar. Every time a player on that list dies and is not Caesar but another player aligned with the Triumvirate, you will cross one more name off the list.

Active Ability: Filibuster
Your ability to drone on and on and on for hours is simply unparalleled. So much so that you alone can literally halt the senate's decisions, preventing anything new from being accomplished that day. Usually people would hate you for it, but your strict morals, and adherence to the rules, and tradition means your ability to stall has actually benefited the senate, allowing you to get away with what is usually frowned upon.
Once a game, during the day, you may post in thread ##FILIBUSTER. Once you do, further voting and ability usage will be locked for the day, though it will otherwise continue as normal, ensuring whoever has the most votes is eliminated.

Win Condition: Eliminate all threats to the Republic.

^ This is Luispipe's role @Celever Needless to say I think you're wrong about the timescale.
 
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