Finished Mafia XLII: War of the Gods ~ GAME OVER ~ Town wins!

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NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Why do you need to look through past games? I thought you already knew. :)
I know what I've tried to do more of, which by extension, I did less of before. I can't tell you what I did more of then and less of now.
 

Celever

Wheeeee~
Member
Good, so the only difference you think you have is that you're more vocal.

Because there's been a mindset shift. That's the scummy part.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Good, so the only difference you think you have is that you're more vocal.

Because there's been a mindset shift. That's the scummy part.
Questioning every post is certainly a mindset shift.
If you mean something else, show me what you're talking about and I can try to explain it for you.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
I honestly cant form an opinion as from what I've seen he's commenting on his past meta, while being admittedly dodgy.
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
Just what I got from this, but basically what I heard you say was, "it's townie if inexprienced players freak out" and you didn't explain how this could affect older and more experienced players, instead you just focused on the inexperienced.
Adding to this, @NinjaPenguin, you explain why voting like I did is helpful when voting for an inexperienced player, but you aren't an inexperienced player, so that reason isn't actually relevant.

If an experienced player doesn't know about it, it can easily catch scum. See KoN in that game for an example.
KoN would know very well how RVS works; he's just does not like how Camo plays, and that's why he's very annoyed when he RVS/pushes for him (which also seems to be a regular occurance).
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
I find this amusing because of this from Pirates:
At least provide a silly reasoning or something.

##Vote: Ninja Penguin

Was originally gonna RVS, but looked over the posts, and dude, I think I might've played a couple games with you, but this one you definetely seem a lot more aggressive, at least to my expierence. Call it bandwagon, but this is just what I've noticed. And we are barely into the game. Not only this, but, the first quoted message just seemed scummy to me, as though he could possibly be covering up for BB. Probably completely wrong, but again, just what I've noticed.
Sorry if it didn't quote the whole passage I wanted to quote, but mobile is not the best yknow. Anyways, I sort of agree with lorde on this one, he's a seasoned player, that's weird dude, and it morely hints towards what I said first in that slight possibility or NP and BB scumteam.
This is a townie post.

I don't have the time, nor the desire, to examine my own meta. I know what I've tried to do more of. To see what I did in the past, just look at the opposite of what I said.
I think Celever might be onto something, and this is the most interesting part of it. I can't figure out if it's annoyance of Celever pushing for him, or whether it's just a cop-out.

@everyone Should post their thoughts on the NP case.
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
##VOTE: NinjaPenguin

He's over-exaggerating his perceived town meta to cover up the fact he's scum. His real town meta is different to what he thinks it is, so the fact he's playing this game by how he always says he plays as town is a pretty good starting point.
Calm it down in confirming assumptions. Yes this is true and it's worth considering but slow down, we need more evidence than that. Players change the way they play gradually over time. This could be one of those changes, as it's not a big one.

He's been more aggressive than I've seen in the past. Pirates and Superheroes, the games I remember him in, were not as aggressive as this. This is a mindset change as stated by Celever. I agree with that. However NP used a similar argument that I used in Dazzling Star, involving a change in the way I played. These kinds of points are points no one can argue with, which is why this is getting us nowhere.

It really could be either one, but this isn't something I'm going to worry about because it gets us nowhere. He's a high up choice but his saying BB made a "good vote" is weird, and incorrect. I get that pressure is a thing but it's a weird way to put pressure on a player.

It also seems like you're trying to grab townie points by promoting this kind of pressure, which really seems like something you'll try to use to your advantage later. His mindset isn't what I think makes him scummy, its his defense and his promotion of intense pressure.

Him not replying to further conversation when he earlier implied he wanted to keep it alive with pressure is super contradictory and is scummy as well. And NP has 2-3 votes on him already. In a game as small as this the last thing I need to do is give other players the opportunity to hammer.

And that I feel like withholding vote for now because I don't like D1
Why? That's only slowing the progress of getting out of this dreadful phase. That's scummy if anything here is.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
Because we have no information on who could be scum and who is town. Tell me, do you have any reads right now other NP? I'll vote when I feel there is solid evidence, when no mistakes could be made. It's not scummy, in fact back in the day No Lynch on D1 got so popular that games started on N1 then D1. That way people could use abilities and use the information they gained N1 to their advantage to start piecing together a case against scum rotb. Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
It really could be either one, but this is't something I'm going to worry about because it gets us nowhere. He's a high up choice but his saying BB made a "good vote" is weird, and incorrect. I get that pressure is a thing but it's a weird way to put pressure on a player.
I'd just like to point out that the vote I made on NP was good in that he caused discussion. It wasn't exactly a random vote - a knew that NP would react to that somehow, and probably substantially (which he did), and if so, people would react to that (and they did), etcetera, and thus discussion would happen.
 

Celever

Wheeeee~
Member
NP's hypocrisy is important to remember. bb made the same play as others had made, which NP then swiftly labelled as "bad", yet NP said it was "good" when bb did so. 'Tis an interesting interaction.
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
NP's hypocrisy is important to remember. bb made the same play as others had made, which NP then swiftly labelled as "bad", yet NP said it was "good" when bb did so. 'Tis an interesting interaction.
NP actually gave a reason why for this; did you miss it?
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
Because we have no information on who could be scum and who is town. Tell me, do you have any reads right now other NP? I'll vote when I feel there is solid evidence, when no mistakes could be made. It's not scummy, in fact back in the day No Lynch on D1 got so popular that games started on N1 then D1. That way people could use abilities and use the information they gained N1 to their advantage to start piecing together a case against scum rotb. Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.
I have no reads, but you pretty much just "evaluating" and trying to fly under the radar D1 is annoying. Sure, we have no information, that's why you start with asking questions. Why are you gonna complain that we have no information, and just withdraw yourself until we have some? Unless you don't have the time right now than you should be here helping us gather information. If you want to be certain scum has been found then could you please help us find one?

Scum is rarely found D1, but you can either policy lynch if you really have nothing at the end of the day, or someone can just in general be scummy. You're never gonna be certain scum is found, and even when the "confoscum" dies they can still flip town. Last game is evidence of this. Saying you need to be certain is probably exaggerating, but you should always go with who you think is the scummiest. It makes no sense to simply wait because "there isn't enough info", then bandwagon later. That is blantantly scummy, and you trying to argue it is useless.

It's not enough to really make me that suspicious of you but simply withdrawing yourself from D1, despite how f-ing terrible RVS is, is preventing potential discussion and that is scummy behavior. There's no denying that.
NP's hypocrisy is important to remember. bb made the same play as others had made, which NP then swiftly labelled as "bad", yet NP said it was "good" when bb did so. 'Tis an interesting interaction.
It is, especially in RVS where no one really knows what they need to do to win yet.
NP actually gave a reason why for this; did you miss it?
It could easily be a fabricated stance, this has been pointed out. Don't rule this out.

Done for today, I have stuff I need to do.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
t makes no sense to simply wait because "there isn't enough info", then bandwagon later. That is blantantly scummy, and you trying to argue it is useless.
Did you not read my post all the way?
It's not scummy, in fact back in the day No Lynch on D1 got so popular that games started on N1 then D1. That way people could use abilities and use the information they gained N1 to their advantage to start piecing together a case against scum rotb. Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.
I'm not waiting for a wagon, I'm waiting for a scum tell. I see no reason thus far in my eyes that NP is scum; even if he is shadely dodging questions based on speculation of playstyle. I don't have the time nor patience currently to look back at his past games to speculate on him myself.
Metagaming in itself is a stupid tool to use, as it's trial and error; mostly error. We did it last game, and where did it get us? We took that L.
It's also easily used by scum because it's almost impossible to refute, so to use someone's past game play as a tool against them is just as scummy as abstaining from voting on D1.
 

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
Forum Mod
Member
Calm it down in confirming assumptions. Yes this is true and it's worth considering but slow down, we need more evidence than that. Players change the way they play gradually over time. This could be one of those changes, as it's not a big one.

He's been more aggressive than I've seen in the past. Pirates and Superheroes, the games I remember him in, were not as aggressive as this. This is a mindset change as stated by Celever. I agree with that. However NP used a similar argument that I used in Dazzling Star, involving a change in the way I played. These kinds of points are points no one can argue with, which is why this is getting us nowhere.

It really could be either one, but this isn't something I'm going to worry about because it gets us nowhere. He's a high up choice but his saying BB made a "good vote" is weird, and incorrect. I get that pressure is a thing but it's a weird way to put pressure on a player.

It also seems like you're trying to grab townie points by promoting this kind of pressure, which really seems like something you'll try to use to your advantage later. His mindset isn't what I think makes him scummy, its his defense and his promotion of intense pressure.

Him not replying to further conversation when he earlier implied he wanted to keep it alive with pressure is super contradictory and is scummy as well. And NP has 2-3 votes on him already. In a game as small as this the last thing I need to do is give other players the opportunity to hammer.

While I agree with you regarding the level of aggressiveness not being that alerting, it is not the main point Celever has brought, imo. The thing is that he's actually trying to appear that way. The evidence for that is the quotes Celever brought showing how NP stating indirectly "this is how I play". So yeah, feel free to comment on that point.
 

mordacazir

Lord of Souls
Member
Because we have no information on who could be scum and who is town. Tell me, do you have any reads right now other NP? I'll vote when I feel there is solid evidence, when no mistakes could be made. It's not scummy, in fact back in the day No Lynch on D1 got so popular that games started on N1 then D1. That way people could use abilities and use the information they gained N1 to their advantage to start piecing together a case against scum rotb. Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.
You don't have or need reads to lynch on day 1.
Did you not read my post all the way?
She did read the post all the way as can be seen by this:
Saying you need to be certain is probably exaggerating, but you should always go with who you think is the scummiest.

Thus, I abstain from voting until I feel like I'm certain scum has been found.
If you would be town you help with finding scum.
Are there any players that you do have an opinion on?
And HW, answer this please.
##vote: @Haunted Water
 

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
Forum Mod
Member
I find this amusing because of this from Pirates:

Read it in the context- last game it was a very long RVS, and so I got annoyed by how it is getting nowhere. This game- It was after NP went aggressive on the first RVS vote, stating how this is not ok to not provide a reason, and that he will go for anyone who does so. I just had to test that.
 
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