Finished Mafia XLI: Fight for the Dazzling Star ~ Game Over!

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bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
WHEN DID I EVER SAY THIS??? Where and how are you drawing the conclusion that I'm saying that Prof and I are scum!? Morda is not confirmed, you are not confirmed, the only one who can be confidently confirmed is Quaking.
Seriously, calm down, I wrote that wrong. >.>

There's supposed to be a "doesn't" in between "it" and "makes". Pretty much, you say that process-of-elimination is stupid, and that caused the loss of the town (which I'm not sure about - it might be more that they cleared for the wrong reasons), but I think that morda, quaking and HW are very unlikely town at this stage.

Because I don't think he's scummy. That's it. No strong scumtells, informative posts, how am I supposed to draw a scum read from someone who's acting fairly town in my own eyes?

This is ridiculous since when have either Prof or I been confirmed scum? You're phrasing this as we confirmed. Stop, take it back a second, and broaden your view, or you will screw all of us over. WIFOM isn't even an area I specialize in or know how to deal with. It just kinda comes up whenever. You clearly don't know how I play, because if you did you wouldn't be making an accusation like this. This is an error I've made, and it's an easy one to make, so I'll let it slide...
This is dragging away from the main point. You are both scummy and both have shown signs of buddying, and I'm pretty confident that you're the two scum. If you're not

All I can do is laugh at this one because it's exactly what you're doing to me.
No, I'm giving evidence that you're scum since you're scummy. Any push on me "because he's leading the town" is equivalent to pushing a lynch on me "for being active" or "commenting on lots of things" or "being analytical". This is what I mean.

And making people feel sorry for me is gonna keep me safe? It's kinda just commentary of my fate but you can interpret it as you see fit. You're also ignoring my regular attitude shift when accused. This is normal behavior for me.
It shouldn't, but it does. That's why it's called appeal to emotion. Scum both conciously and unconciously employ it; some time do too, but this is just evidence piling up - it's not the main case.

lord o, if you're actually town, who do you think should be lynched and why? In fact @everyone should answer this question.
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
There's supposed to be a "doesn't" in between "it" and "makes". Pretty much, you say that process-of-elimination is stupid, and that caused the loss of the town (which I'm not sure about - it might be more that they cleared for the wrong reasons), but I think that morda, quaking and HW are very unlikely town at this stage.
That 'unlikely' is probably a typo. You say this as you continue to pressure PP and I as if were confirmed scum. Maybe looking deeper into Haunted and (especially) morda will stop your tunneling.
This is dragging away from the main point. You are both scummy and both have shown signs of buddying, and I'm pretty confident that you're the two scum. If you're not
Scum buddying means little. If I were scum I wouldn't buddy with my actual scumbuddy. Who knows? Prof could be scum, I just don't think he is. Remind me, why am I being confirmed scum for a pretty much a read you disagree with? You say I've been scummy, but all you use to back this up is that I've "buddied" with Prof P, and I echoed despite not seeing the post that I couldn't load because the button is so damn small on a 4" phone. Could you tell me why we're scummy individually, nothing to do with the other player? Because I've yet to see any good evidence.
No, I'm giving evidence that you're scum since you're scummy. Any push on me "because he's leading the town" is equivalent to pushing a lynch on me "for being active" or "commenting on lots of things" or "being analytical". This is what I mean.
Wrong, there is a big difference in being active versus leading the town. You can be the most active player in the game and still be public enemy #1, or you can be a lurker and still have everyone think your town. Activity has little to do with leading the town, all you need to do is allow people to sheep behind you, and that's what people have done all game.
lord o, if you're actually town, who do you think should be lynched and why? In fact @everyone should answer this question.
Morda. I've stated before that his role seemed off, it's a weird one for a townie to have because I see it hurting town more than helping.
I'd say PP right now, but I'd like to see what NP sent him regarding claiming Courting first.
Wait, was it confirmed that NP even sent him anything?
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
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@Professor Palutena (2): bbninjas (680-), Haunted Water (684-)
bbninjas (1): Professor Palutena (640-)
mordacazir (1): lord o da rings (691-)
Not Receiving Votes: (lord o da rings, quakingpunch73, Haunted Water)

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Nobody! Keep up the good work.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
Morda. I've stated before that his role seemed off, it's a weird one for a townie to have because I see it hurting town more than helping.
And yours doesn't? If you hadn't fired that ability, this game would be 100% easier for us right now. It sounds like it could be meant to stop a nightkill, but maybe only from quaking, since iirc mafia kills are like scripted events. They happen due to scum efforts, not abilities.

Maybe looking deeper into Haunted and (especially) morda will stop your tunneling.
I think we both know why he's not coming after me, and such a suggestion only strengthens my scum read.
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
I think we both know why he's not coming after me, and such a suggestion only strengthens my scum read.
Oml I never said you were scum. I actually think you're town, but okay. I mainly wanted him to look at others besides me and Prof because he's tunneling, which is dumb af in MYLO. I'm not saying your scum, I'm mainly saying keep an open mind before you lose us the game.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
Oml I never said you were scum. I actually think you're town, but okay. I mainly wanted him to look at others besides me and Prof because he's tunneling, which is dumb af in MYLO. I'm not saying your scum, I'm mainly saying keep an open mind before you lose us the game.
So you want him to waste time tunneling people who have done nothing scummy enough to warrant a tunnel? Why? We have a certain deadline to meet and we're sure we found scum.

bb, what'd you and Celever discuss in your qt that you both shared?
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
Oml I never said you were scum. I actually think you're town, but okay. I mainly wanted him to look at others besides me and Prof because he's tunneling, which is dumb af in MYLO. I'm not saying your scum, I'm mainly saying keep an open mind before you lose us the game.
So you want him to waste time tunneling people who have done nothing scummy enough to warrant a tunnel?
I said "look at" not tunnel. Stop twisting my words.
Why? We have a certain deadline to meet and we're sure we found scum.
Day 5 starts now, and will last 140 hours. It will end at 8:00 AM EST on Sunday, June 18th. Here's a countdown for your convenience.
We have 39 hours, and 20 minutes. We have plenty of time.
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
We have a certain deadline to meet and we're sure we found scum.
There are three things you always need to remember that you have clearly forgotten:

1. You can stack crap tons of evidence onto a player and they'll STILL flip town.
2. 80% of "logic" is bull in this game. It's just how it is.
3. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum (one did but it was a night kill N1, which connects no one).

Anyway, care to explain how tunneling a Town read is helpful on MYLO?
It's not. I already said this:
I mainly wanted him to look at others besides me and Prof because he's tunneling, which is dumb af in MYLO. I'm not saying your scum, I'm mainly saying keep an open mind before you lose us the game.
I'd appreciate if you read my posts, thanks.

@mordacazir and @Professor Palutena you both have been extremely quiet since Wednesday. Thoughts?
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
"Hey this person's scummy and this person's scummy. I'm going to tunnel them because I want information."
That's what bbninjas is doing right now. He has a strong scum read and he can prove he has evidence, as he is showing it. You want him to not do that, yet you present no other lynch option other than morda, who's role checks out. You're swinging at things that you can't hit.

The fact that you are trying this hard to defend yourself from a small implication of being scum is trivial, but are you doing this because you want to protect your scumbuddy as well?
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
That 'unlikely' is probably a typo. You say this as you continue to pressure PP and I as if were confirmed scum. Maybe looking deeper into Haunted and (especially) morda will stop your tunneling.
You two are pratically confirmed scum for me- I find it very difficult to imagine a scenario where morda is scum, same with TSM. Haunted isn't as clear cut, but he's the only seer to have claimed, and Bowser's role confirms that there is a town seer. I know I'm town. You and Prof P are the only options, and the evidence I've found matches up with this.

Scum buddying means little. If I were scum I wouldn't buddy with my actual scumbuddy. Who knows?
You can use this "who knows?" argument for pretty much everything, and it doesn't actually argue against anything. That's why it's called WIFOM.

Wrong, there is a big difference in being active versus leading the town. You can be the most active player in the game and still be public enemy #1, or you can be a lurker and still have everyone think your town. Activity has little to do with leading the town, all you need to do is allow people to sheep behind you, and that's what people have done all game.
Oh, you're still blaming me for other people's actions.

Morda. I've stated before that his role seemed off, it's a weird one for a townie to have because I see it hurting town more than helping.
Roles is the only reason why you think morda is scum?

bb, what'd you and Celever discuss in your qt that you both shared?
We used the QT mainly to share some of our reads and suspicions on other players that we didn't want to post yet, as to either not interfer with the other's scumhunt or because we wanted a bit more information first. We also discussed the indie wincon (whether or not they win with us based on the OP) and the alignment of quaking a bit.

There are three things you always need to remember that you have clearly forgotten:

1. You can stack crap tons of evidence onto a player and they'll STILL flip town.
2. 80% of "logic" is bull in this game. It's just how it is.
3. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum (one did but it was a night kill N1, which connects no one).
You keep saying WIFOMy things like this, but you don't actually suggest any other options beyond morda, who you've barely given any evidence for.

@mordacazir and @Professor Palutena you both have been extremely quiet since Wednesday. Thoughts?
Prof P hasn't been quiet - he's been posting somewhat regularly to answer 'easy' questions whilst ignoring everything else and just keeping his vote parked on me.

lord o said:
Prof could be scum, I just don't think he is. Remind me, why am I being confirmed scum for a pretty much a read you disagree with? You say I've been scummy, but all you use to back this up is that I've "buddied" with Prof P, and I echoed despite not seeing the post that I couldn't load because the button is so damn small on a 4" phone. Could you tell me why we're scummy individually, nothing to do with the other player? Because I've yet to see any good evidence.

lord o
- Early game echoing and potential echoing later in the game (slipping out of character)
- Opportunistic with their scumhunting and voting
- Gunning with "leading the town"
- WIFOMy logic/reasoning
- Inconsistencies in reads
- Scummy AtE
- Process of elimination
- Multiple instances of buddying with the other likely scum member

Prof P
- Continious pushes on me using the "leading the town" reasoning
- Other reachy cases (e.g. on Celever)
- Ignoring/dodging, especially in elaborating his cases/reads
- Parking his vote in MYLO
- Claiming a Passive very similar to one that town had (indicates a safeclaim)
- Process of elimination
- Multiple instances of buddying with the other likely scum member
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
"Hey this person's scummy and this person's scummy. I'm going to tunnel them because I want information."
That's what bbninjas is doing right now. He has a strong scum read and he can prove he has evidence, as he is showing it. You want him to not do that, yet you present no other lynch option other than morda, who's role checks out. You're swinging at things that you can't hit.
Can you tell me in any way how morda's role "checks out"? Last I heard you said his role was suspicious, and it changes why? Because BB thinks he's town? His role is a scummy role, all of it. Stealing coins, stars, etc. is in no way helpful to the town seeing as it'll be taken from town most likely.
The fact that you are trying this hard to defend yourself from a small implication of being scum is trivial, but are you doing this because you want to protect your scumbuddy as well?
I defend myself to the extremes. See Superheroes, see Age of Piracy, any game where I am in the spotlight, because I always fight like hell to defend myself. It doesn't always work, but I always do this. And while I'm mainly defending myself, I'm also defending Prof right nowbecause I do not see any reasonable evidence that he is scummy. But soon I'll stop, he needs to speak up more.

And for the last time stop phrasing what you say as if I'm confoscum. I'm not. Things are rarely confirmed, and it shocks me, SHOCKS me that players who call themselves veterans are being as narrow-minded as they are right now, because confirming two players with some minor scumtells isn't "case closed we got 'em guys", it's just not.
You two are pratically confirmed scum for me- I find it very difficult to imagine a scenario where morda is scum, same with TSM. Haunted isn't as clear cut, but he's the only seer to have claimed, and Bowser's role confirms that there is a town seer. I know I'm town. You and Prof P are the only options, and the evidence I've found matches up with this.
I'm not changing my stance, Prof is townie in my eyes, and that's all there is to it. I'm fighting like mad because I don't want the town to lose, and I really think we will if Prof is lynched.
You can use this "who knows?" argument for pretty much everything, and it doesn't actually argue against anything. That's why it's called WIFOM.
The "who knows" applies to the following statement, not the one before. Why pair the phrase with the part of the argument it makes less sense in? Because you're trying to make me look as scummy as possible. Also, don't feel the need to educate me about basic things in this game, belittling me is just rude.
Oh, you're still blaming me for other people's actions.
Well "not doing anything is part of the problem" as they say.
Roles is the only reason why you think morda is scum?
I've said this before, but again, no one seems to be paying me any piece of mind. I think he's scummy because he's lied low, and his posts have been echoing and bare minimum (aside from the post limit). Pay attention, please, I am 100% I said all of this before.
You keep saying WIFOMy things like this, but you don't actually suggest any other options beyond morda, who you've barely given any evidence for.
I've stated why I think he's scum, you just either don't remember, choose not to remember, or are ignoring what I say.
Prof P hasn't been quiet - he's been posting somewhat regularly to answer 'easy' questions whilst ignoring everything else and just keeping his vote parked on me.
His last post was a one-liner yesterday. Before that, he hasn't posted since Wednesday.

@NinjaPenguin I'm gonna be on a long flight all day tomorrow, likely no posts from me, at least not until late at night. Hopefully all the stuff today is enough to get by for tomorrow, and I'll try to write up something Saturday night or early Sunday morning.
 

Haunted Water

DEFT Lunar
Member
And for the last time stop phrasing what you say as if I'm confoscum. I'm not. Things are rarely confirmed, and it shocks me, SHOCKS me that players who call themselves veterans are being as narrow-minded as they are right now, because confirming two players with some minor scumtells isn't "case closed we got 'em guys", it's just not.
Nice AtE right there.
 

bbninjas

Ready or Not!
Advanced Member
Member
I'm not changing my stance, Prof is townie in my eyes, and that's all there is to it. I'm fighting like mad because I don't want the town to lose, and I really think we will if Prof is lynched.
And why is Prof so townie? I just listed the evidence for both you and Prof P upon your request, and you seemed to have ignored that entirely.

The "who knows" applies to the following statement, not the one before. Why pair the phrase with the part of the argument it makes less sense in? Because you're trying to make me look as scummy as possible. Also, don't feel the need to educate me about basic things in this game, belittling me is just rude.
It makes complete sense regarding either statement, and regardless, my point still stands. "Who knows?" is WIFOM. No, I'm not trying to belittle or educate you, I am trying to make it as clear as possible for everyone else.

Well "not doing anything is part of the problem" as they say.
I've said why this is both false and not scummy already. I've been active ly trying to get people to post their thoughts and scumhunt, and it's not even my responsbility to do that anyway. Ironically, you're saying that people need to pay attention, yet it appears you're not either.

I've said this before, but again, no one seems to be paying me any piece of mind. I think he's scummy because he's lied low, and his posts have been echoing and bare minimum (aside from the post limit). Pay attention, please, I am 100% I said all of this before.
First off, there's absolutely nothing wrong with repeating your case - it reminds everyone else and if the case isn't consistent, then that can be a scumtell. Especially since you were going on about roles for a whille there. Second off, since he does have a post restriction, then of course it's going to appear as if he's lied low, and posting the bare minimum. This leaves just echoing, which is not substantial evidence so late in the game, especially considering the abundance of evidence for him being townie.

His last post was a one-liner yesterday. Before that, he hasn't posted since Wednesday.
Correct, hence why I'm pointing out that he's ignoring everything else and is just parking his vote.
 

mordacazir

Lord of Souls
Member
In fact @everyone should answer this question.
Lorde-PP or You-HW are who I think still could be scum. Probably PP and lorde
and his posts have been echoing
Where have i been echoing?
@mordacazir and @Professor Palutena you both have been extremely quiet since Wednesday. Thoughts?
You know I only can make 5 posts and this is my 4th.
And @Professor Palutena , you were active just 11 minutes ago when I started making this post. So can you make a post or something?
I defend myself to the extremes. See Superheroes, see Age of Piracy, any game where I am in the spotlight, because I always fight like hell to defend myself. It doesn't always work, but I always do this. And while I'm mainly defending myself, I'm also defending Prof right nowbecause I do not see any reasonable evidence that he is scummy. But soon I'll stop, he needs to speak up more
From what I've just read in age of piracy and what I remember from Superheroes, you weren't vigorously defending yourself as you are now.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Daily Vote Count
@Professor Palutena (2): bbninjas (680-), Haunted Water (684-)
bbninjas (1): Professor Palutena (640-)
mordacazir (1): lord o da rings (691-)
Not Receiving Votes: (lord o da rings, quakingpunch73, Haunted Water)

One day remaining! Be sure to post while you still can.

Players who need to post more:
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P.S.
@NinjaPenguin I'm gonna be on a long flight all day tomorrow, likely no posts from me, at least not until late at night. Hopefully all the stuff today is enough to get by for tomorrow, and I'll try to write up something Saturday night or early Sunday morning.
That's fine. You've posted enough today to be pretty safe anyway.
 

quakingpunch73

At The Beach
Member
I'm going to ##Vote: Professor Palutena. He's had more than 24 hours to answer my question on whether he got something from NP and if so, what it was, and with less than 24 hours left in the day, I don't want the vote to be tied last minute be anyone and having the lottery.
 

Lorde

♕ The Queen ♕
Member
Oh hey, I got wifi on this plane. Time to hammer. ##UNVOTE: mordacazir ##VOTE: Professor Palutena

Now may I finally stop acting like I'm on some terrible ABC sitcom?
 
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