Pokémon Thoughts on Silvady : a Non-Legendary Arceus?

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
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It can change its type based on the item it holds, and have a special attack that change its type based on the held item. No it is not Arceus, but the recently introduced Pokemon Silvady. This is pretty exciting news. Most times, when we see a new Pokemon that have a "new ability" that its effect is the same as an older ability (I am looking at you Lunala and Solgaleo) we get a little annoyed. However, this time even if Silvady works just like Arceus, it is very unique, because Arceus is a legendary Pokemon that can't be used in most metagames, while Silvady probably can (it's not legendary because it has a pre-evolution, at least I hope so). It is interesting to see what implications this Pseudo-Arceus has on the competitive scene. Also, it is a welcome trend, in my opinion, to make more Pokemon that are not legendary, but are based on an existing one with a unique ability. A Pseudo-Darkrai with Bad Dreams, a Pseudo-Groudon with Desolate land, etc (there are not too many options, actually).

So, in order to make Silvady work just like Arceus, but not being too powerful, I wonder what the stats should be like. As we know, other big traits that Arceus has in battles are its stats, which are 120 all across the board. Obviously, Silvady will be too powerful with such stats, but in order to be as close as possible to work like Arceus, it can just lower the number in each stat from 120 to 100 or 90, or maybe 80? What number would make it ok to not be considered overpowered, yet not weak? Well, it also depends on its movepool. In particularly, its signature move.

Arceus has the signature move, Judgment. A special move with 100 base power (and accuracy) that can be any type (depends on the item). Silvady has a similar move called Multi-Attack, and, like Arceus's Judgement, it also change its type depends on the held item. However, this Multi-Attack move might be different. Just going by the name, one could assume that this move will be a physical move. After all, so far, Tri Attack is the only special move out of all the moves that contain the word Attack in their name. Also, who says Multi Attack is an actual attacking move? Sand Attack is a status move even though it has Attack in its name. However, based on the fact the move changes type, it is more likely to be a damaging move. If so, it can either be 100 base power, like Arceus, or even more powerful than that.

Another thing that can help predicting its stats, would be the fact that there is no Pokemon with 100 base power in each stat that can be used in official competitive battles. Victini,Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, all of them are always banned from VGC. However, they are all event Pokemon, and that is the reason (iirc) that they are not allowed in battles, and not necessarily because of their stats. Still, I think that considering Multi Attack being a damaging move with 100 or more base power, it would be a very powerful Pokemon if given 100 base power in all stats.

So my prediction, assuming Silvady was made to be an available Arceus in battles, is that it will have Multi-Attack with a little more than 100 base power, and 90 (or maybe even 95) in every stat. It makes Silvady relatively slow, but also bulky with the power to dish out a powerful attack that can be any type. Also, a possible advantage over Arceus would be the ability to not have a change in appearance based on the chosen type. Not knowing what is the type of Silvady from the beginning can compensate the relatively low stats and add more twist to the battle.

From there, the only question that is left for me is whether we'll see it caring Extreme Speed or not :p
 

Professor Palutena

The Queen
Member
Let's wait and see the stat spread and movepool. Arceus' ability is great, but it gets so much done by virtue of its movepool and stat spread.

I'm willing to bet a 90 across the board stat spread, for a total of 540. This would put it up around Blissey and Gyarados, which I think Silvady fits with. This would also be the minimum it would need to be successful. Glalie and Phione have 80 across the board, and while they have other problems besides their stats, their stats are really crippling for them. Buffing to 100 seems out of the question given that 600 is reserved for psuedos and mythicals.

This stat spread will still hold Silvady back though. Due to its ability, it doesn't get to hold an item and hit STAB weaknesses, which is a major deal. 90 base offenses are abysmal in OU's standards when everyone is packing 100+, and OU's only exceptions, Serperior and Talonflame, have other traits that redeem their lack of raw power. If we assume a Clefable-wide movepool, which is pretty normal for most normal types, and I think makes sense with Silvady's ability, I don't know if it can get away with the lack of stats.

Honestly, I think it'll end up UU and I'd be surprised if it got any use in VGC. But we'll just wait an see.
 

TheRealBro..

...
Member
Obviously, Silvady will be too powerful with such stats, but in order to be as close as possible to work like Arceus, it can just lower the number in each stat from 120 to 100 or 90, or maybe 80? What number would make it ok to not be considered overpowered, yet not weak?

I don't really think the stat spread will be like that actually. Basing on the design, I'm guessing this beast will be physical and I am expecting a sky high attack. Maybe 120 or up. It looks a bit like Absol, so it could have a similar stat distribution, except more speed (because I'm assuming a higher base stat total than Absol).

If the stat total would be 540 total, it could be like this; 80/120/80/80/80/100. If something like this turns out to be true, it could be a total beast, with the surprise factor of not knowing it's typing included. However, it will be hampered by not being able to carry another item then so maybe it will only be UU, depending on it's movepool.. If it gets a big movepool, and a high attack stat, the surprise factor of not knowing its type will be big enough to grant it a spot in OU, I think.
 

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
Advanced Member
Member
"Once released from that heavy mask, the Pokémon’s speed increases substantially."

It's not going to have 90 or even 100 base speed based off that description. It's also probably not going to have an equal stat spread since they signal out its Speed. While blurbs can be exaggerated, keep in mind they did the same with blurbs on megas. For example, Mega Salamence was told to have a major increase in Attack and Defense, which we got.

If this thing has good Attack (120) and decent speed (enough to reach the benchmark 110, although anything higher than 100 is decent) there's no question it will be OU. If it also recieves a varied movepool to match its design, that would be icing on the cake.

The ability to change type is potent since it gifts a Pokemon with endless utility. While Arceus is the only example, it's a perfect example of this concept. It can become a Ghost-type tailored to spinblocking, or it can be something like Fairy- or Rock-type to cover specific threats to your team. You can even ignore its ability to take advantage of its normal STAB and items, although this niche won't affect Silvalley unless it gets Extreme Speed as well. Silvalley probably won't be as multidimensional as Arceus due to it being marketed as an offensive Pokemon, but it still can carve out a useful niche as a utility offensive threat.

I like when we recieve Uber concepts in Pokemon meant for standard play. It's almost like the releasen of Dream World Politoed and Ninetales, but with a less extreme concept. Multitype is good enough to make any Pokemon at least niche worthy, but not extereme enough to dictate the shape of a metagame like the weather abilities did in Gen 5.

Can't wait to try out Flying-type Silvalley. The idea of a Flying-type attacker with a zero drawback STAB move sounds great.
 
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Professor Palutena

The Queen
Member
"Once released from that heavy mask, the Pokémon’s speed increases substantially."
While I see what you're getting at, this speed increase in this context would depend on Type: Null's speed. If it's only got like 40 Speed, then an increase to 90 would be substantial.

That said, I think this thing will be much more interesting if it lacks an equal stat spread.
 

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
Advanced Member
Member
While I see what you're getting at, this speed increase in this context would depend on Type: Null's speed. If it's only got like 40 Speed, then an increase to 90 would be substantial.

That said, I think this thing will be much more interesting if it lacks an equal stat spread.

It's shown in the trailer at level 53 outspeeding a Scyther at level 51. If we're to assume both IVs are the same, this would mean that Silvalley has at least 101 bases speed (or 100 bases speed). If Scyther is maxed out at 31 and Silvalley is at 0, it's at least 117 (or 116 in a tie). If Scyther is at 0 and Silvally is at 31, it's at least 87 (or 86).

At of all these, none of them hold up as accurate measures since Scyther has 133 HP, which means that it has at least 2 or 3 IVs or possible EVs. Its IVs could be random. Silvalley must have set equal IVs and no EVs, however, since it's from an important trainer.

87 to 117 is still a good range, but it's not accurate and leaves all of our ideas open to possibility. Who really knows?

I looked back at Type: Null's trailer and it showed it outspeeding Alakazam 1 level lower than it. It could be that the significantly slower Type: Null has at minimum 101 bases Speed, or that the Alakazam and Scyther moved first and used a non damaging move, explaining the full HP.

tldr: basing stats off trailers is bs. we'll find out for certain when the game is datamined in 3 days. :/
 

Scattered mind

Competitive VG Forums Mod
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Nailed it! Silvally's stats are 95 all across the board! Now all that is left to do is to see if it gets viable in competitive battles and really put itself as the Arceus of non-Uber battles :)
 

iSharingan

Competitive VG Tutor and Gizoid
Member
Hate to bump so late, but ironically I've seen Type: Null to be used more than Silvally thus far. Dat 95/95/95 plus eviolite defenses and crit immunity are hard to beat down, since the only things that change on evolution, really, are speed and ability.
 

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
Advanced Member
Member
Type: Null is slightly worse than Porygon-2 in my opinion. While Null has slightly better defenses, it lacks any reliable recovery and its ability offers niche opportunities compared to P-2's three amazing abilities. Better defenses will only get you so far when P-2 can last longer and apply more pressure.

Outside of that, I'm not buying the argument that Type: Null is even superior to Silvally. It's not that they occupy different roles, but its the fact that Type: Null lacks two moves that are giving Silvally any usage right now: Explosion and Parting Shot. Both of those moves allow Silvally to support its teammates far better than Type: Null can. Its entire movepool is also stripped of any of the coverage options that Silvally (or Porygon-2) have.

(type: null is also 1 point slower than porygon-2, which is irrelevant but kind of hilarious)
 

Nyora

A Cat
Member
It's like Arceus but better as it's not banned it formats that people play competitively for worlds. Parting Shot is the main reason and I think it'll see play but I sadly haven't seen much Silvally on Pokémon Showdown.
 
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