VGC Cores (New Player Resource)

Scattered mind

Scattered mind

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Hey everyone. I am new to the VGC metagame and I would appreciate your help by posting your recommended cores in the VGC metagame. This can help anyone like me getting into the game. Up until now I only battled in OU and it is obviously different. So please share your knowledge. There is a great thread about strategies in VGC in this forum but there is an empty work in process spoiler of common sets in ORAS waiting forever now for post ORAS.

Oh and of course please explain a little bit about the core. Though I guess that's pretty obvious.

VGC Cores list from the thread:

Kangaskhan & Landorus-T
Metagross & Hydreigon
Heatran & Suicune
 
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scattered mind said:
Hey everyone. I am new to the VGC metagame and I would appreciate your help by posting your recommended sets and cores in the VGC metagame. This can help anyone like me getting into the game. Up until now I only battled in OU and it is obviously different. So please share your knowledge. There is a great thread about strategies in VGC in this forum but there is an empty work in process spoiler of common sets in ORAS waiting forever now for post ORAS.

Oh and of course please explain a little bit about the set/core. Though I guess that's pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

Well, hopefully you know about the little rule that when multi-target moves hit multiple targets they take a 25% damage reduction.

With that aside, it would really help if you posted what you want to use. Some brief explanations on a couple common sets are below.

Top Threats - The Team

Kangaskhan @ Kangskhanite
Jolly Nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Scrappy
Fake Out/Protect
Return/Double-Edge
Power-Up Punch/Low Kick
Sucker Punch/Protect

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Adamant Nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Superpower
U-Turn/Knock Off/Stone Edge

Terrakion @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Close Combat
Rock Slide
Quick Guard/Taunt
Protect

Heatran @ Leftovers/Shuca Berry
Modest Nature
Varies
Heat Wave
Earth Power
Substitute/Flash Cannon
Protect

The most feared (and commonly used) Pokes all on one team, this team concept is used in VGC quite frequently. Terrakion and Lando-T outspeed most of the format and deal massive damage, Mega Khan does the same at a slower pace. Heatran's spread is listed as 'Varies' because he's usually EV'd to take specific attacks. Protect is slashed twice on Khan because some players opt for either Sucker Punch or Fake Out and then use Protect, while others omit Protect entirely and use 4 attacks. As for the other two slots, usually people pick a supportive wall such as Icy Wind/Thunder Wave Cresselia or Icy Wind/Tailwind Suicune, followed by another attacker of the player's choice. Overall the team members cover for each others weaknesses decently, and most of all pack a ridiculously powerful punch. Khan mostly uses Scrappy in case it wants to Fake Out Ghost-types before going Mega.


Mega Metagross the Painbringer.team

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Adamant/Jolly Nature
Varies
Iron Head
Zen Headbutt
Substitute
Protect

Hydreigon @ Specs/Scarf
Modest/Jolly Nature
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Flamethrower
Earth Power

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry/Life Orb
Bold/Modest/Timid Nature
Varies
Thunder Wave
Taunt
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Ice

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry/Rocky Helmet
Regenerator
Calm/Relaxed Nature
252 HP/others dependant on Nature
Spore
Rage Powder
Giga Drain
Protect/Sludge Bomb

Another well known team, Mega Metagross and Thundurus are both usually played with bulky spreads in this team concept. The job of the team is simple- defend Metagross. Thundurus likes to stick around as long as possible, tossing out Thunder Waves on all opponents it can, although it can get along with a more offensive spread. Amoonguss uses Rage Powder to redirect single target attacks onto it, or it can annoy opponents with Spore until it switches out to use its Regenerator Ability. Hydreigon provides some great resistances to cover Metagross and does excellent damage; whether it's Scarfed or Speced depends on if you value outspeeding and OHKOing Scarfed Landorus with Draco Meteor. As for the big boss Metagross itself, thanks to Tough Claws most players only use minimal Attack EVs on his spread, instead prefering to last as long as possible, with Jolly taken to eliminate Terrakion, or Adamant with a slower high bulk spread based on out-trading opponents. For the remaining two slots is up to preference. Landorus-Therian is simply one of the best non-megas going around, while Talonflame's strength at revenge killing and activating Tailwind bring much to the table.

Welp, enjoy the wall of text!
 
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Thank you for that :] There is nothing specific as I want it to be a thread that anyone - not just me- who wants to get into the VGC meta will have a clue where to start- By posting common useful sets with explanation about what the EV's moves and items are for. This way, any new player could potentially learn the logic behind each set and learn how to build an effective team by himself.
 
Cinesra said:
Why Iron Head on Metagross when it gets Meteor Mash?
Click to expand...

In VGC, most players see Meteor Mash as 'win-moar'; Mega Metagross already hits like a truck, and since Iron Head only has 10 less Base Power as well as a flinch chance (which is excellent in the format) as well as 100% accuracy it's used far more often.

The other reason off the top of my head is that people usually only use attacks that like that if they score OHKO's other moves don't or have more favorable effects. The fast build uses Iron Head simply because even a small chance of causing a flinch is seen as preferable over a +1 Attack boost. The bulky build on the other hand gives up Speed and starts getting outsped by some top threats; because of this those players tend to go for the move that hits 100% of the time rather than risk a miss.
 
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I've lost many games to misses. Using Iron Head is a much safer play than Meteor Mash. There isn't any key KOs I remember that Meteor Mash can get that Iron Head cannot. Even on non-mega Metagross I prefer it because I know I'll hit my opponent and I can always use Tailwind on some other member of my team should I want a speed boost.
 
What about Suicune+Heatran core?

Suicune can support Heatran with Icy wind or Tailwind while Heatran can support Suicune against Amoongus's Spore with Heat Wave after Sub to protect itself from it.
The Fire/Water combo can also put a lot of pressure on the opponent.

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EV: ?
Bold Nature
- Icy Wind/Tailwind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EV: ?
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Edit: There are EV spreads on different sites but I have no idea what they're for so I rather hearing from people hear what they think the EV spreads should be..:]
 
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Both are pretty common choices. With Suicune you really only want one Ice attack rather than two. Tailwind is the real reason to use Suicune though. Some builds remove Protect in favor of Snarl mostly thanks to Suicune's ability to take hits.

Heatran's EVs are usually either bulky or a simple 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe to hit as hard and fast as a mid Speeder can. Either way, Tailwind helps Heatran out a lot.

Figuring out EVs for VGC in general is all about using the Damage Calculator to try and optimize EVs to getting key OHKO's and surviving hits that could OHKO you back without you having defensive investment. Using it to figure how many EVs you need to outspeed something is also useful.
 
Interesting. With Snarl instead of Protect and Icy Wind instead of Tailwind is it viable/common to run it with an Assault Vest if Sitrus Berry/Leftovers are already on another team members? I imagine it would help to take special hits well, while allowing to invest more EV's in Defense/S.ATK.
If Tailwind is the main reason why people use Suicune I guess the answer is not.

I also wonder if Talonflame can be even better core mate for Tailwind Suicune, as it can partly covers Suicune's lack of Protect, if choosing to go for Snarl, and it also able to use Taunt to make it easier for Suicune to set a Tailwind ( Talonflame can set its own Tailwind but having them both can make it much easier plus Talonflame is a fast Taunt user which can be a great combo to almost ensure Suicune would be able to use Tailwind on the same turn).
 
scattered mind said:
Interesting. With Snarl instead of Protect and Icy Wind instead of Tailwind is it viable/common to run it with an Assault Vest if Sitrus Berry/Leftovers are already on another team members? I imagine it would help to take special hits well, while allowing to invest more EV's in Defense/S.ATK.
If Tailwind is the main reason why people use Suicune I guess the answer is not.

I also wonder if Talonflame can be even better core mate for Tailwind Suicune, as it can partly covers Suicune's lack of Protect, if choosing to go for Snarl, and it also able to use Taunt to make it easier for Suicune to set a Tailwind ( Talonflame can set its own Tailwind but having them both can make it much easier plus Talonflame is a fast Taunt user which can be a great combo to almost ensure Suicune would be able to use Tailwind on the same turn).
Click to expand...

One of the main selling points to using Suicune is Tailwind. It is designed to be a support Pokemon. It doesn't do enough damage on its own to make AV worthwhile. In VGC you have to think of your team as a whole, not just individual Pokemon. This is a Suicune I've done and it can work really well:

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 Spe
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Snarl
- Tailwind

The EVs let it outpace +1 Mega Salamence under Tailwind. It also is able to survive +1 Double Edge from Mega Salamence and KO back with Ice Beam taking the recoil damage into account.

If you have Talonflame on the same team, I really don't think it wise to have both out at the same time because then you really are limiting your damage output. Without Life Orb, Talonflame loses a lot of power and KOs. It's hard to not have Focus Sash if you are running support Talonflame because you are depending on it to set up Tailwind.
 
Got it. I thought so.
Thanks for the set. So Suicune can pair better with Heatran than Talonflame overall since Heatran can do great damage to both opponents with Heat Wave/ Earth Power which helps to not limit my damage output while Suicune being a more supportive Pokemon.
 
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