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Standard Swampert / Empoleon

Ivy_Profen

Ivy_Profen

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokemon:

  • 3-1-3 Empoleon DEX
    3-1-3 Swampert PRC
    2 Manaphy PRC
    1 Jirachi EX
    1 Exeggcute PLF
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:

  • 2 Sycamore
    3 Skyla
    2 Fan Club
    1 N
    1 Colress
    1 Lysandre
    1 Trump Card
    1 Teammates
    1 Archie's Ace in the Hole
    2 VS Seekers
    4 Ultra Ball
    2 Switch
    1 Superior Energy Retrieval
    1 Professor's Letter
    1 Startling Megaphone
    1 Dowsing Machine
    4 Rare Candy
    1 Ether
    2 Muscle Band
    1 Rough Seas
Energy:

  • 9 Water Energy

Strategy:
Basic strategy is to set up empoleon and Swampert. Once they are both set up you can put any card on the top of your deck and then draw it with diving draw. When multiple are set up you can grab even more cards.

Manaphy is in the deck to help set up early game.

Low support count allows for more stuff to fit. Though the deck itself is still really consistent.

Turn 1 Archie's Ace in the Hole does happen every so often and when it does its pretty great.

Ether allows for 1 turn charge of Swampert.

Either way this deck is pretty good. Much better than Slurpuff imo. As it has a secondary attacker for 1 energy. It has 2 different weaknesses. The combo of the 2 abilities is pretty strong.

Any thoughts on what to tweak to make it better?
 
First thing I see, is Jirachi is a liability when you're trying to make a favorable prize trade. Everything else is worth 1 prize, so losing Jirachi can put your prize trade behind a turn. I understand choosing Ultra Ball over Dive Ball specifically to help Archie's Ace, but you should still want at least 1 Dive Ball for Skyla purposes. I'm not entirely convinced on Archie's Ace though; I've found the most reliable ways to set up a turn 2 Stage 2, are 4 Skyla, 4 Dive Ball (Or 3 Dive Ball and 1 Ultra), 4 Rare Candy, and at LEAST 2 teammates. Probably more. Another thing that might help overall, is swapping a Manaphy out for an Emolga. Setting up your bench is often the first thing you'll want to do, and Emolga gives you a free retreat cost to help you a little bit more throughout the game. Manaphy still has its uses though, and I do like its inclusion. Ether sounds unnecessary, to be honest. Acro Bike also works well with Swampert, but I'm not sure if it's necessary, or if there's room for it. Miltank also works well with both of them, but again, the deck doesn't have much room.

Overall though, it sounds like a pretty good deck. I love how the Swampert/Empoleon engine works with Trump Card. Being able to return your discard pile to your deck and get anything out of it is pretty great.

Alright, so basically, I'd suggest:

-1 Manaphy, +1 Emolga
-3 Ultra Ball, +3 Dive Ball
-1 Archie's Ace, +1 Skyla
-2 Ether, +2 N
-1 Jirachi, +1 Teammates
-1 Fan Club, +1 Energy Retrieval
 
Whats good about Ether is that you can diving search for an energy and attach 1 more energy to the the swampert so you can attach 3 energy in 1 turn. Thus being able to attack in 1 turn.

I find Manapy more useful than emolga, being able to draw a new hand when the deck itself has so few draw support is pretty important imo.

Jirachi is for the same reason. With such a small draw support line, the Jirachi is almost need. It changes a certain loss to a chance of winning. Sure it becomes a liability while on the field. But i rather it be a liability, rather than drawing dead while i have ultra balls in hand. This also means ultra balls are better than dive ball.

I have considered dropping 1 ether for a stadium. With the ability to diving draw+search you can easily reuse the same card ever turn if you wanted. With both dowsing machine, trump card, and all other stuff. The new undulating Ocean can heal your pokemon. But it also stops fairy garden, dimensional valley, ect. Just crippling decks that need their stadium.

Archie's Ace isn't super important. Though it has made some pretty crazy plays thus far. Im not sure what would be more helpful. With teammates, you get 2 cards from your deck. But this deck can already do that, so idk if its that worth it for a supporter.
 
Just curious, but why do you play this with Empoleon over Slurpuff? They both have insane synergy with Swampert. I assumed you prefered to attack with Empoleon, but you would need a thicker line if that was the case. I'm also curious to know what you think about Miltank in the deck.

Ether is pretty good in a Swampert build, being able to power up Swampert's rather large Energy requirement in one turn, and it's not like you have to hope there's an Energy on top of your deck since you can just put it there. I had hoped few others would have thought of the synergy, but I guess not.

Another thing is your Sycamore count. I'm usually a fan of maxing out Juniper, but I think this is the one deck that honestly doesn't need it. Once you get set up, you don't need to play Juniper unless you are able to play out your hand. I built Swampert / Slurpuff with one, but I'm probably going to cut it for something else. If you ever need to draw big, Colress should be fine. I'd take out the Sycamore for more N. It's good early game to get you set up, and then late game, you drop your opponent's hand size while still drawing everything you need. I might also find room for another Teammates because I feel like that's an important card you won't want to be prized or you will want to draw into while you're still setting up. And the search once you are set up is stupid.

I've thought about, but not tested a few techs for the Seismitoad match up, which is pretty bad in theory. Enhanced Hammer would be nice to get rid of DCE's. I want to play around with Leafeons, but I'm afraid another 2-2 Stage 1 line would hurt consistency, given that the one match up I'd need it in, I can't really set up to search it out. Still, Leafeon would be a beast with Training Center and resisting Water.
 
I wonder what's the point when you can do the same strat with Slurpuff, which is only a stage 1? One stage 2 line is hard enough to set up, much less two stage two lines.
 
Edited first post a bit.

I tried slurpuff. It does work a little. The main problem is that you cant attack with it. Swampert takes 3 energy + to attack. Which is not ideal to rely on. Being able to attack with empoleon for 1 energy is so good since it does damage based on bench size. It can do up to 120 with max pokemon and muscle band, which is generally enough for most non Ex that doesnt put your main attacker in harms way. While anything with alot of HP can be taken out with Swampert with a enough energy investment.

What makes the addition of Empoleon even better is that it is weak to Electric, while Swampert is weak to Grass. This is good in that you can at least play around your weakness. While with slurpuff, its almost an auto loss against grass deck. Even a simple tropius.leafeon OHKOs Swampert. Empoleon also allows you to draw 2 cards instead of just one. Which may not seem like a huge deal, but it kind of is, when this deck needs to set up asap.

I'll admit that 2 stage 2 pokemon just seems so bad. With such low draw support as well, this deck on paper seems like it should be so terrible. But for some reason, its so good. It sets up at least one part of the combo turn 2, most of the time. After that it doesnt take too long to set up the rest. Once you set up 1 of each. You can basically win by taking whatever you need most to destroy your opponent.

As for the supporter count. I've been playing Shiftry for a while now, and this is very similar to the best supporter line i could come up with, since shiftry has such huge draw power. Once it gets set up. Juniper/N/Colress are all worthless dead cards. Throw in Jirachi for the consistency and Leaf Draw to victory. I've usually end up playing with about 20+ cards in hand.

Seismitoad is still a huge threat to this deck as far as i can tell. But it just seems like it would be such a waste to tech for such a bad match up. I could only think of adding Leafeon to help counter it. But it would just make the consistency so much worse and take up at least 4 slots. Grass is still kind of a bad match up if they target down Swamperts. But Empoleon makes the match up much more playable.
 
I agree that a deck with two Stage 2 Pokemon to set up can sound bad, but these are the two Pokemon you'd want to do that with. The fact of the matter is, once you set up one of them, you can set up the other pretty quickly.

Yes, I understand Ether being able to set up a Swampert in one turn, and the synergy with its ability. But I really don't know how much that's necessary. If you start with a Mudkip, you can already get 1 energy on it Turn 1. All you'd need to worry about is the two more once it evolves. And if you only can get one Energy, then you have Empoleon to attack with. I guess I haven't played the deck, so I don't know for sure. But I'd rather the consistency of being able to set up Pokemon quicker than energy.

If you have Dive Balls in hand, you shouldn't be drawing dead. At worst, you're evolving a Basic/Stage 1, or getting a Manaphy out to give you a new hand. Essentially, all of your Pokemon have access to drawing support. You just need to get them out there. Jirachi is far from necessary. I used Greninja/Empoleon for a while, and Jirachi wasn't necessary there, even though one of my Stage 2s was useless for drawing. You really just need to get one Stage 2 out to essentially be set for the entire game.

That's also the reason why Teammates is so good. Let's say you start with say, two Mudkips. Maybe you have a Dive Ball in hand. You start by attaching an energy to the benched Mudkip, and save the Dive Ball for now. Your opponent then goes, and knocks out your active Mudkip. You use Teammates for maybe Rare Candy, and a basic, Professor's Letter, whatever you need. Teammates gives you a Stage 2, guaranteed (I guess the only exception being if you don't have any evolving basics down), the turn after your opponent knocks out their first Pokemon. With Swampert, you're at least choosing which card you draw next. With Empoleon, you're drawing an extra two cards a turn. Either way, you should be in good shape from there. Get your first evolution, and the rest will follow.

"Archie's Ace isn't super important. Though it has made some pretty crazy plays thus far. Im not sure what would be more helpful. With teammates, you get 2 cards from your deck. But this deck can already do that, so idk if its that worth it for a supporter."

The point of Teammates, and really, what most of your supporters should be for, is to set up your first Stage 2. As you said, a lot of your supporters become dead cards once you're set up, so why not play the supporter most likely to get you a Stage 2 out the fastest?
 
The problem with using 2 turns to charge a swampert, is that you cant consistently keep up with EX decks that can OHKO it. That one Ether can be used over and over with diving draw/search if need be. So you can go from 0 energy to 3 energy in 1 turn so you can attack. Its hard enough to keep up with EXs that can OHKO, while Swampert takes a lot more. But if it takes 2 turns to charge, you are probably going to lose.

Jirachi grabs you that supporter that turn. Before you attack. So thus it allows you to grab that juniper get 7 cards. Use those 7 cards, then use deep sea swirl to get 6 new cards for next turn. Whats better there? Dive ball and waste a turn grabbing 6 card for next turn? Or play jirachi and grab 7 cards now and then 6 cards for next turn. This deck will probably be so inconsistent without jirachi.

You can say Jirachi is terrible, but even with jirachi, they still need 5 KOs to win in total.

If the question was which is better. Teammates or Archie that would be no question. Teammates is better. But with VS seekers there are already access to 3 teammates, without trump card. However since there is already 1 teammates in the deck, making it 2 Only increasing the plays to 4 Teammates. I see what your saying about yeah it will help you get out that 2nd step more consistently than Archie if not for the ability to search it out with Jirachi.

Theres no question that this deck is playing Jirachi. With jirachi it plays ultraball instead of diveballs. With access to ultraballs, the possibility of turn 1 2nd step. So with the combo, turn 1 you can potentially get Swampert doing Hydropump or w/e with 3 energy and a muslce band for like 130 damage. Granted its probably not going to happen. But with just adding 1 card in the deck.

It also allows you to get a 2nd step on the field whenever you have only 2 cards in hand. Grab an ultraball with diving search, diving draw to make your hand 3 cards. Ultraball for JIrachi. Jirachi for Archie's Ace. Play it and slap a 2nd step on the bench and draw 5 cards.
 
I would recomend changing the energy retrival to a superior energy retrival so you can get four energy instead of only the two especially since you are playing the exeggute to keep discarding.
 
I guess that does make sense. I was thinking since you can only drop 2 per turn at most. But this deck does just keep its hand around for a while so 4 is probably better. I'll change that.
 
Yes yes yes, I know how Jirachi works. I never said it was terrible. I just said this is not the deck to be using it in. If I could get someone to trade me 3 Swamperts on PTCGO, I'd prove this deck can work without it. But okay, for now I'll stop trying to talk you out of Jirachi.

You're COMPLETELY missing the point on Teammates though. Yes, you have access to 3 of them throughout the game if you really need them. But you only have access to ONE at the start of the game. You have a 8/60 chance of drawing that one in your starting hand+first draw. The fact of the matter is, you want it on Turn 2-3, depending on how fast your opponent sets up/KOs your first Pokemon. Having access to one on turn 2-3 pretty much guarantees you at least one Stage 2 that turn. Therefore, you want to maximize the odds of drawing it in your first hand or after using your first supporter. I honestly don't care if you take out Juniper, N, Archie, or what for more Teammates. This deck just explodes with access to Teammates early on. The only reason I'd suggest taking Archie out for it is Archie's requirement to work isn't nearly as easy to fulfill as Teammates in the early stages of the game. This makes Archie less consistent at getting a Stage 2 out early game, when you need them most.
 
If the point is to play teammates turn 2 then that it wouldnt be much better with 1 more. To access teammates with jirachi in the deck you can grab it with.
4 Ultra balls
1 Jirachi
2 Pokemon Fan Club
1 Teammates

Thats 8 ways to hit teammates turn 2. Adding 1 more doesn't really change too much. I mean if anything i would change dowsing machine to computer search. To give me a total of 9 ways to hit that teammates in 2 turns. Granted i might actually use computer search instead of dowsing machine because trump card is just so good with this deck. being able to set up quicker is probably better.

To make any real difference in grabbing it earlier would be to make it like a 4 of or something like that. Which just wont work for a deck with such little space.
 
I've been trying the deck on PTCGO, and it is really a lot of fun. It's one of my favorite decks to play with right now. I've won 7/10 matches so far. One loss was due to all four Rare Candy being prized, and I think the other two were Seismitoad locking me before I could evolve anything. Anyway, I'll share the list I've been using.

2 Emolga
3-1-3 Swampert
3-1-3 Empoleon

4 N
4 Skyla
3 Birch
3 Teammates
1 Lysandre
1 Trump Card

1 Computer Search
2 Muscle Band
4 Dive Ball
4 RC
2 VS Seeker
2 Switch
2 Prof. Letter
1 Energy Retrieval
1 Superior Energy Retrieval

9 Water Energy

I'm sure I'll be doing more testing with it, especially when I can get some Manaphy on PTCGO. But hey, I'm glad you made the list and gave me a starting point. It really is a fun and effective deck.
 
Yeah. I haven't actually tried it with the Sycamores yet, but to me, this seems to work out well. My thinking is that with two stage 2's, all 4 Rare Candy are often needed, and it's too high of a chance of discarding multiple Rare Candy/Stage 2's/Stage 1's early game. So I didn't really want them early game. Even with a Trump Card, I dislike the risk, because if you don't have the entire combo out, it can be difficult find a time to use Trump Card early on to get all those pieces you discarded back. Mid game, this deck doesn't really need to wipe its hand due to Diving Draw thinning the deck and Swampert searching out anything you need. So shuffle supporters work there just as well.

All that being said though, I've been thinking of a variant that uses a light supporter count, with Acro Bike, Roller Skates, etc. instead. The idea behind that being to run through your deck setting up the combo, use Trump Card at some point (Maybe several times even), and get back anything that was in your discard pile when you need it. The big issue with that is Seismitoad stopping the entire item draw engine. I really haven't figured out how to solve that yet.
 
I've been in awe of this deck's synergy ever since another league player crushed me with his variant of it. I'm running it on PTCGO now, though, and I just can't get it to run smoothly. It's almost a given that whoever I send out first will be knocked out T2, especially if I go second. I do a similar build as CruelBear does, but I'm just not getting it to click. I think the light supporter route is best, which I have yet to try, but then you're SOL when up against Seismitoad. I want to love it (mostly because I just bought a playset of Swampert from eBay...), but I don't know how to make things better.

If your starting hand has Mudkip and Piplup, who do you usually send out to be your active? Do you find your active getting knocked out T2 most of the time? Would adding a Seismitoad EX (or Suicune?) be beneficial, or just muddle things? I think it'd be nice to have it out to stall for a bit while you set up, but who knows...
 
You should try adding Jirachi. it makes it set up so much faster. My deck sets up pretty consistently. And once it does its pretty scary.
 
PsychedelicBreakfast said:
I've been in awe of this deck's synergy ever since another league player crushed me with his variant of it. I'm running it on PTCGO now, though, and I just can't get it to run smoothly. It's almost a given that whoever I send out first will be knocked out T2, especially if I go second. I do a similar build as CruelBear does, but I'm just not getting it to click. I think the light supporter route is best, which I have yet to try, but then you're SOL when up against Seismitoad. I want to love it (mostly because I just bought a playset of Swampert from eBay...), but I don't know how to make things better.

If your starting hand has Mudkip and Piplup, who do you usually send out to be your active? Do you find your active getting knocked out T2 most of the time? Would adding a Seismitoad EX (or Suicune?) be beneficial, or just muddle things? I think it'd be nice to have it out to stall for a bit while you set up, but who knows...
Click to expand...

In that case, I send out Piplup first, and try Charming my opponent to death. But in all seriousness, it depends on what else is in my hand. Assuming I have access to whichever one I want (ie, a Dive Ball and Rare Candy in my opening hand), I usually tend to go for a Swampert first, so Piplup would be the first to be sent out. Maybe this weekend, I'll try getting the item version of the deck perfected, but I'm not sure how much I can focus on it, since I'm not running it for States (Just bought a playset of Greninja, and can't really afford to switch decks now). You're right though, the big issue is Seismitoad. The only ways I've found to help against it in this deck, are Rough Seas to help stall longer, and/or Xerosic to break the trainer lock by discarding DCEs.
 
Hahaha I just had a match with you a couple hours ago CruelBear, so long you share the same name on PTCGO. I can post the list I was using against you if you are curious to see it.

I went with the item based variant to capitalize on Archie's Ace in the hole. I will say that in the current format there are a lot of tough things this deck has to deal with. The first being N. The list I use can often rely on the chosen top deck card to set my next turn in motion, or I have culled my hand perfectly to get an Archie's Ace that next turn. N totally disrupts my flow without fail every time unless I legit have dead draw at the beginning of the match. Seismitoad obviously is a tough opponent to play against. When using a speed based item draw version you should probably accept the auto loss. I will admit I have to try to Xerosic trick you mentioned in our match, as I wrote off Seismitoad as the wall to ruin me. Lastly, VirGen totally cuts through the deck like butter due to Swampert's grass weakness. The way I like to play the deck is to use Swampert as the main attacker, so my Empoleon line is not very strong. As others have stated, I like using Empoleon over Slurpuff as it can act as a backup attacker, and has done so many times for me when Swampert goes down and I need a turn to build another up with energy. Another thing I have noticed is that Mega Pokemon can often throw a wrench in Swampert's fun with how much HP they have. It may be a case where I need to learn how to go about tackling their huge hit points in a way other than stacking energy on Swampert and getting the OHKO.


This deck is always a blast to play, and is one of the most fun I've played since the HG/SS block. The feeling of getting that turn 1 Archie's Ace is beat by nothing. I am very curious to see how the deck's viability will change once rotation hits if we see it become an XY on format. Obviously we will lose Empoleon, but who knows what we will see in the next coming sets before then, as rotation is a fair bit away.
 
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