Finished Mafia LXI: Forest Fire: Game Over!

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Ephemera

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new rainbow:

jade
amici
vom
scattered
lily
mega – null level around here
bb
cel

lily/scattered are my weakest townreads, would like to hear more from both of them.
Question to scattered: of the main wagons (me/cel), who do you think is more scummy?

Will reevaluate lily/scattered/mega D2, based on flip + EoD activity I guess.
jade/amici/vom towncore imo

will post an analysis on bb sometime today
 

Vom

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I don't think my flip should have any effect on Lily's alignment.
It doesn’t, but if you flip town it’s no longer worth pursuing since it’s based on the interactions between you two.
 

Ephemera

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It doesn’t, but if you flip town it’s no longer worth pursuing since it’s based on the interactions between you two.

uh, this doesn't make too much sense, but doesn't really matter.

Anyhow I'd like to hear more from most people, ngl. Activity levels for mafia are at an all time high, but I'd like to see more posts from mega, cel, lily, and scattered, and to a lesser extent amici and jade. Having high activity makes it harder for wolves to blend into the background, since with more posts = more potential places to slip, or at least a harder time on wolves to keep up the town facade.

(also ignore the fact that i think by this point my ISO fills up 4 pages – 80 posts. I've never 80-posted before in a single day phase. this is pretty cool ngl :p )

Side note, this is probably the most fun game of mafia I've played on PB. :D
 

Ephemera

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oml I have 96 posts how
this never happens lol

(kudos to bb and vom for keeping up with my manic posting style lol)
 

bbninjas

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Wallpost

Celever never ended up providing any quotes, but can we still get that indicative stuff?
I think I more or less explained those things in my later posts (I was going to wait but just didn't end up waiting rip). Basically "Cel sets up the implication that he has a lot of thoughts" and " he states he doesn't have stuff on other people, correct? Here, he says there's nothing to quote of my posts" I agreed with, but wasn't sure if it was intentional or not. What I wanted to find out was whether or not Celever had read posts that contradicted his misunderstandings. For example, was he going to quote a post where I had explained my "pitch" for a Cel lurker elimination. If he did, then indicative, if not then NAI.

I mean, no one else has commented on it until now so maybe I'm just wrong, but up until now I thought I was the one to start the push on Ephemera.
I think you put pressure on Eph first (here), but I think I articulated the first case (here).

I was gonna agree with the first half and (surprise!) argue against the second, but rereading your Fiery/Ephe theory doesn't seem too crazy. Of course, if Ephemera does get lynched today we'll know whether it's worth looking into more, but here's something about that for tomorrow since without knowing Ephe's alignment it's eh.
Should Eph be lynched today?

But independently of that, I would certainly not say Lily is the towniest player here - while it is not realistic to expect walls upon walls of ideas from a new player, it is realistic to expect at least one (1) thought/explanation for literally anything. Whereas in Fiery's case, she hasn't put out a single thought. She's been cooperative when people have asked her things, and has given out reads/feels, but at no point has she justified literally anything.

Now you could argue she hasn't been asked to, since she's been kind of forgotten in the Ephemera/Celever wagons with the Day ending, or that she hasn't been pressured (nobody wants to be that guy), or anything, but in my experience the #1 goal of new town players is to not get eliminated for saying the wrong thing or appearing to mindlessly follow. Basically, their goals align a lot with scum - which is really unfortunate - but they do it anyway without even realizing until someone teaches them better.
She hasn't articulated a single thought. That's different to not having one. Has anyone asked her for one? Because town usually doesn't volunteer that sort of thing. Oh you argue that in the next paragraph. Honestly, that paragraph doesn't actually explain why this logic doesn't work I don't think; and aside, the easiest way to not say the wrong thing is to just not say anything. New players figure this out pretty quickly - even if they can't exactly articulate. I don't think there's anything here that would make me rethink my read.

1) wiiiiiine, so much wine, i'm drowning in it

2) like the questions though, but need to see where this could go before this is AI

3) voting scum, and voting anti-town. See my response to the next quote for more.
This is sooooo scummy. It's not wine, it's very legitimate and is a serious point that should be considered in every lynch. Anti-town =/= scum. Scum tries to be anti-town, and town just end up that way. This is essentially a lynch a lurker, so you better justify to everyone why we should waste a lynch on a lurker based on NAI information. (And if it is indicative, then you should explain why.)

infoelims are the worst thing we can do lol. Eliminate scummy people. I don't like Cel's responses – I've seen Cel as relatively lowposting town (been teamed with him) and the tone/way stuff was conveyed was not like this. lolmetareads, but combined with the fact that it's just not good at all, my voting of this slot isn't just voting a lurker, it's voting a legit scumread.
Let's not pretend that you aren't scummy. Once again, you've defaulted to vague tone reads. When you spend 4 or 5 pages trying to build a case on Cel with nothing but "tone" and "don't like this", then I'm not suprised by Celever's recent "throw the hands up in the air" tone and overall disinterest in his posts. And since you're not addressing why Celever's posts are actually indictive, then yes, I would like to lynch someone who would actually give us information.

Will reevaluate lily/scattered/mega D2, based on flip + EoD activity I guess.
How on earth would Celever's flip affect your evaluation of those three people?

will post an analysis on bb sometime today
Good.
 

bbninjas

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The Summary of the Case On Eph
Obviously I think##VOTE: Ephemera is the best elimination today. There are legitimate, alignment-indicative scumtells on them, unlike Celever's wagon which is a lynch-a-lurker in disguise. Eph's flip will also give plenty of information as Eph has direct and strong ties with basically everyone. @Ephemera, I'd appreciate it if you respond asap - even if there's not that much detail in your initial post

The scumtells:
  • Eph consistently provided no tangible evidence, tells or objective reasoning for their townreads and scumreads. These reads cannot be questioned or debated, so it discredits players and generates distrust in them without having to give evidence.
Evidence: Eph refers to "tone" 7 times throughout the first 24 hours before they got called out on it. Said "there must be scum in the group of 4 voting me"
and
took 68+ hours to find enough evidence to build a case on one of them. Eph first mentioned the four here [#83 or #120], and took until [#225] to build a case.

  • Closely related, how a person reads Eph seems to affect how Eph reads that person. This combined with the lack of tangible reasoning suggests an agenda. Scum want to make friends with the people already vouching for them, and want to scumread those who scumread them(as they are not of any use to the mafians (this is OMGUS). Scum run a smear campaign against the players who scumread them (see above).
Evidence: When Amici townread Eph, Eph townread Amici right back. When Vom, bbn and Cel scumread Eph, Eph scumread immediately afterwards. When Vom reduced their pressure on Eph, Eph weakened their scumread on Vom. Why this coincidence?

  • Eph flip-flopped through the four people that voted them, which means Eph had no evidence from the start on those people. This means Eph decided that one of those four are scum, and then tried to wedge evidence and tells to fit that narrative. This also suggests an agenda (i.e. discrediting those pressuring them).
Evidence: Just take a look at Eph's vote progression: from bbninjas [#120] --> Megapod [#123] --> Celever [#162], and anyone reading the thread would know that this flip-flopping is not just in votes. (There was no non-RVS vote on Vom from what I can see, but anyone reading the thread would know that Eph has been moving in and out with Vom throughout the entire day.)
  • Other tells which I don't think are as significant, but other people might think they are: lots of WIFOM (wine, or "what ifs"), getting defensive after very little pressure, redirecting attention towards the four (sometimes instead of responding to the main points from those people)
tl;dr
  1. Coincidental reads: Eph's reads consistently lacked tangible evidence to back them up, lack of evidence suggests an agenda
  2. Agenda: Eph consistently discredited / smeared the people who voted for them
  3. Flip-flopping: Eph flipflopped between the four people who voted for them, scum-reading them first and finding evidence second
  4. Minor tells: WIFOM, gets defensive easily, redirecting attention
 

Scattered mind

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im back! so sorry for disappearing like that. im going to invest more time to compansate. I skimmed the thread and so i do need to do some rereads but:

celever's case is weak- The case seems to be basically that he is not as active like he usually is.. which is true but he does that as scum and town. There was one game I remember him being inactive across d2 and he was scum. But still, it's not enough to jump on that wagon and I imagine that if eph is scum- then the scum mate jumped on that wagon as soon as they saw the opputunity.

@Amici - why is eph not in your core?

ephemera is a wild card and I honestly don't mind voting them. The only thing that prevents me from doing that is the thought that there must be a better choice than that. But the day is close to ending so I might jump on that wagon myself.

I would actually vote Lily- normally new town players try to contribute or just stay inactive. history on this site shows that new scum players does things differently- they make sure they pop in and out even if they don't have something to say, and they make sure to answer questions but without giving away too much details or thoughts, which is what i see here with Lily. very similar play as mordacazir back in the game he played first as scum.

jade is scummy to me. They echo and they dont seem to commit much to any thought even in that meta read jade posted it looked as if they want to show that they contribute but they obsolutely don't want to reveal what they really think.

@Vom you are not the only one who says bb rubs them the wrong way, (a very funny english expression you got there) but since i remember you saying it im going to ask you- how exactly? and can you make a case or a clearer point?
 

Scattered mind

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Evidence: When Amici townread Eph, Eph townread Amici right back. When Vom, bbn and Cel scumread Eph, Eph scumread immediately afterwards. When Vom reduced their pressure on Eph, Eph weakened their scumread on Vom. Why this coincidence?

probably the strongest point I read about eph.
 

Scattered mind

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Look at me putting up with phone PB for yall smh

lmao @ the multi quote comment being read as sus. I caught up by vanity ctrl+Fing because I’m low efforting and it’s easiest to make reads based on the one thing I know (my alignment). The multi quote was 2 posts from Ephe being paranoid as hell over my RVS on them saying that I “targeted” them which is nonsense, and then bb’s “lets vote cel cos even if he’s town he’ll help out!” which is scum minded. I acc read the pages after I left in full and these are cemented with Ephe’s “I think I pinned Cel as scum here cos he gave up on his multiquote wall” and bb’s same except bb was more conservative so idk less scummy. MegaPod jumping on it is also ???

If me giving up on my multi quote wall is enough to gain 3 players’ attention (meaning at least one town) then that just consolidates my point that there’s not much to talk about or read into ahaha

and Nah Ephe I made the one line quip cos you and Amici were having the most NAI conversation ever but seemingly putting effort into it to look towny and I found it funny, I was never making reads off that

I don't like that passive play though. The more I look into it I understand the case on you. It's not really just inactivity and meta read. Can you really not see that? this post doesnt feel reliable.
 

Ephemera

just a little longer...
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okay. I have thoughts – a lot of them – on bb's case on me, as well as his behavior in general, but I'll get to that later on. That's gonna take a lot of time to work on, and to be frank I don't currently have the free time or concentration to spare to work on that case for the amount it should have. I'll try to get it out sometime tonight though.

A rebuttal, though:
Reducing my whole argument to tonereads is kinda sad – will address this more in my case (ohhhhh boy do i have a lot to say on this) but I've made quite a few points throughout the game:
Vom believes in what she's saying.
Jade's posts have absolutely no scummy agenda.
Lily's posts read like newbie town – because it's hard to be coached by a scumbuddy and not make it look like you're being coached.
Cel's behavior is not helping town, but more than that, he's not following through on impressions given and not giving information – the progression is all off, and it really reads like inconsistent projecting of town: one moment hanging back while seeming to analyze, playing like he notices amici and me, then coming out of the woodwork to defend himself and only that, abandoning his old angle with a halfhearted excuse and no read derived from it.
And so on.

Tone does initially color my reads, but as more information comes, I adapt my reads to them. Again, this is discrediting my solving over putting up your own solution.

Now, after that slightly irritation fueled rebuttal, updated read on scattered.

His new series of posts feel a lot like individual solving. While I feel like some of the thoughts could be fleshed out more, a case that's too perfect often is – it's more likely that town post what come to their minds, not a complete, step-by-step progression. Scattered's thoughts are naturally formed, with some of the inconsistencies natural reads have due to being spontaneous.

I'd put this slot as moderate townread, around amici/vom

New style of reads, I think there's enough info in the thread to start this style.

vvv - jade
vv - amici, scattered, vom
v - lily

(mega is wavering for me. one, there's not much material to read off of this slot, and two, I've seen things that seem like either alignment from each of his posts. I believe I pointed out an IIOA, hedgy style post earlier, while a more recent post didn't feel too off...

actually putting this into words I think this is kiinda weird. I can name what's been scummy about this slot but not what's been towny – people who've played with him feel like he's town? is that it?

okay, he can go in wolfreads then. If Cel flips town his vote is a little sus.)

w - mega
ww - cel, bb
www

(this style of reads is pretty simple: the more letters one has, the stronger my read – v is villager, w is wolf.)

case incoming on bb, it's nighttime and i'm not sure how long it's gonna take me to flesh it out, but it's coming.
 

Vom

livin' in a lonely world
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Should Eph be lynched today?
I still think Ephemera is the best elimination today, yeah.
She hasn't articulated a single thought. That's different to not having one. Has anyone asked her for one? Because town usually doesn't volunteer that sort of thing. Oh you argue that in the next paragraph. Honestly, that paragraph doesn't actually explain why this logic doesn't work I don't think; and aside, the easiest way to not say the wrong thing is to just not say anything. New players figure this out pretty quickly - even if they can't exactly articulate. I don't think there's anything here that would make me rethink my read.
As town that's exactly the sort of thing you should volunteer - your thoughts and thought process so that others can also see your pov, understand your points, and take them into account when forming their opinions. scattered puts his own reasoning here, which aligns with mine to some extent:
I would actually vote Lily- normally new town players try to contribute or just stay inactive. history on this site shows that new scum players does things differently- they make sure they pop in and out even if they don't have something to say, and they make sure to answer questions but without giving away too much details or thoughts, which is what i see here with Lily. very similar play as mordacazir back in the game he played first as scum.
While this is actually a meta read not specific to Lily herself and I don't think comparing two different player's metas (one of which we don't even have yet) is a valid reason, I agree with the concept that Lily doesn't feel like new town. Again, I don't think it's enough to warrant eliminating her over Ephemera or even Celever since it essentially ends up being Lim-a-Lurker 2.0, but it's good enough to not consider her vvv.

Also @scattered mind apparently I say that a lot, but I'll try backing it up. :v
 

Scattered mind

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I still think Ephemera is the best elimination today, yeah.

As town that's exactly the sort of thing you should volunteer - your thoughts and thought process so that others can also see your pov, understand your points, and take them into account when forming their opinions. scattered puts his own reasoning here, which aligns with mine to some extent:

While this is actually a meta read not specific to Lily herself and I don't think comparing two different player's metas (one of which we don't even have yet) is a valid reason, I agree with the concept that Lily doesn't feel like new town. Again, I don't think it's enough to warrant eliminating her over Ephemera or even Celever since it essentially ends up being Lim-a-Lurker 2.0, but it's good enough to not consider her vvv.

Also @scattered mind apparently I say that a lot, but I'll try backing it up. :v

Nah it’s ok! I merely observed the English language jargon.
What about my question regarding bb?
 

Ephemera

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...does bb have any major scumreads besides me? in fact – does bb have any significant townreads that are at least as strong as his tunnel on me?

I don't like it. Don't like it at all. Went down the ISO, and found that most of his posts are either sussing me out or refuting my arguments. There's been a little shade put on Vom as well, and a little attention given to amici, but those are small points in his ISO, and not expanded on much. As for townreads, we have the following:

Oh right! I thought Eph and Fiery could be scumbuddies if Eph is scum. Fiery seems to mainly respond to Eph and their read list is extremely similar to Eph's, but on the reread I don't think this is indicative.



However it's much weaker than I thought. Notice how Fiery finds Amici scummy, which deviates from Eph's readlist. This actually doesn't surprise me on town!Fiery. New town tend to find mysterious and aggressive people scummy, and helpful and polite and nice people townie. Amici acts a bit mysterious/secluded, so Fiery's read makes sense. By the same token, I'm fairly aggressive, while Eph, scattered and Jade all fit that "nice guy" bill. It makes sense that Fiery's list is similar to Eph's, because Eph is in Fiery's town reads and so Fiery is probably using Eph's posts as a starting point.

tl;dr All of Fiery_Lugia's reads matches what you would expect from a new town player; I think Fiery is towniest out of everyone here.

Okay, first bb puts a little shade on lily in association with me (pre-flip associative reads are bad 100%) then immediately retracts it to say Lily is the towniest person here.

...bb's top townread is based on someone looking new and not coached. I understand townreading for this. I even understand moderate townreading for this.
But saying Lily's the top town is a stretch, and I'm fairly sure bb should know that, and try and find other people as town rather than just go with the LHF new townie read as the best they have.

bb is super active in this game, but majority of his posts are throwing shade and casing me, with not much effort given into evaluating the other players.

It's limiting D1 discussion, focusing it on me quite a bit, and his discrediting of the cel wagon reads like scum railroading town into a) a D1 miselim, and b) a generally unproductive D1, wherein all discussion around me is wasted upon my flip.

I'm gonna step back a bit and go at this with a calmer mind, but expect a quotewall of me checking up through bb's ISO.

Overall, bb reads like scum aiming to outfox town, railroad them into a miselimination, and begin D2 with little info and not much shade.
 

Ephemera

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dang I choked last minute lol

Last sentence should read:

...begin D2 with little info and vague shade.
 

Ephemera

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oh. oh my god. i just realized – bb was the one to suggest the cel wagon in the first place!

Aside, I do have a question for you. What do you think about eliminating Celever today? He's a good player but difficult to read, so we either get a confo-town who can still post because eliminated people just become tree stumps; or we get a scum who is lurking and basically impossible to read.

we went from this, to this:

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)

Are you voting Celever because you think he's scum, or because you think he's being anti-town?

This progression on Cel is horrible. First bb suggests the wagon, it gains momentum for people's various reasons (if you want mine i've already placed them), and then changes his tune completely, discrediting everyone voting Celever.

This just doesn't make sense from a town perspective – you do not set up a wagon only to discredit the ones who go on that wagon. Absolutely not.

After I realized this, I went through bb's progression on cel.

Aside, I do have a question for you. What do you think about eliminating Celever today? He's a good player but difficult to read, so we either get a confo-town who can still post because eliminated people just become tree stumps; or we get a scum who is lurking and basically impossible to read.

the first mention of suggesting the cel wagon. at this point Cel still hadn't replied to most people's questions on him, so this suggestion was literally the "lynch-a-lurker" strategy that bb criticizes in his later post. We'll get to that later though.

Cel rightly calls this out as strange (which is not indicative of anything, this is something to call out regardless of alignment) here:

So I did a multi-quote but it was long and scared me so I deleted it to have another short post :U

Sorry for not being here was out all of yesterday and then slept all of today because #winning

Ephe is definitely the scummiest. OMGUS is uncharacteristic of them and they've done it like, all game, to the point of being paranoid in RVS and targeting people who RVS voted them. They haven't had the same solving as they usually do and things seem less town-minded. I haven't seen them play scum before but maybe this is it.

bb is currently the likeliest partner with Ephe imo. The "let's vote out people who'll still be useful after death as town" is a bad idea in this setup given the numbers and I think bb would've figured that out, being the numbers man he is.

So ##VOTE: Ephemera spiritually because my RVS vote on them's still there :U

pre-emptive note: my vote was indeed on cel at this point. I've stated my reasons for sussing and voting cel before and after his re-entry, and they were more than "lynch-a-lurker." Good on you for reading this note and further accusations of voting cel just for lynching a lurker will not be appreciated, thank you very much.

Okay, so we have bb's setup of a cel wagon, which, regardless of his intentions with the suggestion, catches traction.

Next major mention of cel, after Cel reenters the thread and posts (in my opinion, as well as bb's) an unsatisfactory answer.

If your long multi-quote consisted of those 2 posts from Ephe and the 1 post from me, then you lack of understanding of what's actually happened this day makes sense. It's just shown that you haven't actually read the thread. So many gross inaccuracies and over-exaggerations coming from your right now.

There has been plenty of things to talk about regarding the people who have actually been posting, and now people are turning their attention to those who have not been posting (and rightfully so).

@Celever Can you go back and read the thread and provide your thoughts on these things:

- Ephemera and their "coincidental" voting patterns
- Whether or not Amici has been scumhunting or otherwise helpful
- Whether or not Vom has been playing with the town or against the town
- Whether or not Fiery is being coached by scum
- A metaread on Jade, scattered, Mega and myself

If you don't understand what I mean by these, then you definitely need to go back and read the thread.

@Fiery_Lugia I would like you to vote in the next 12 hours
@Jadethepokemontrainer, @scattered mind you two need to vote one of the main wagons in your next post, or reaffirm or start a new wagon if you're unhappy with the main two

This post continues to pressure Cel and place suspicion on him. The bolded even continues to state the lurker aspect of the pressure/suspicion.

Then we proceed to the next Cel mention, barely an afterthought.

Oh right! I thought Eph and Fiery could be scumbuddies if Eph is scum. Fiery seems to mainly respond to Eph and their read list is extremely similar to Eph's, but on the reread I don't think this is indicative.

However it's much weaker than I thought. Notice how Fiery finds Amici scummy, which deviates from Eph's readlist. This actually doesn't surprise me on town!Fiery. New town tend to find mysterious and aggressive people scummy, and helpful and polite and nice people townie. Amici acts a bit mysterious/secluded, so Fiery's read makes sense. By the same token, I'm fairly aggressive, while Eph, scattered and Jade all fit that "nice guy" bill. It makes sense that Fiery's list is similar to Eph's, because Eph is in Fiery's town reads and so Fiery is probably using Eph's posts as a starting point.

tl;dr All of Fiery_Lugia's reads matches what you would expect from a new town player; I think Fiery is towniest out of everyone here.

The chance of scum being in any random group of 3 people is 59.5%, so I mean you're not wrong...

Why is your vote on Celever btw? I think I missed it

There are a few things wrong here. A) the suspicion and pressure have vanished, and bb states that he doesn't remember or understand the reasons for amici voting Cel.
Here, bb starts to distance from the wagon that he sparked, setting up for the kicker:

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)

Are you voting Celever because you think he's scum, or because you think he's being anti-town?

Conveniently removing himself from the Cel pressure + discrediting everyone on said wagon. A far cry from his initial interactions with Cel, and with little progression between.

Cel is still independently scummy, and I still want more answers and thoughts out of him, but bb's progression on cel is so much worse.

##UNCOMEBACK: Celever (but still come back lol we're not done with you)
##LOCKEDANDLOADED: bbninjas

Hope this case is to your liking ;)
 

Ephemera

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A few afterthoughts:
  1. a lot of bb's game, especially regarding me, revolved around discrediting me and taking away my agency. He's also shown this with some of his more minor reads and posts, such as the suspicion on Vom for weakening her read on me and supposedly backpedalling in a scummy way. He discredits my cases and continues to claim that they are simply OMGUS, disregarding all the thoughts I've put into them.
  2. the lack of major reads besides the suspicion on me is telling as well. First, he tells cel off for stating that there's not much to read into, but bb hasn't been doing too much reading into himself. It's been quite a lot of tunneling me, which translates easily to suddenly scumreading someone else once the miselim on me is scored.
  3. there's something i'm waiting and looking for in bb's reply to this case, which is going to be fun.
@everyone thoughts?
 

JadeGemTM

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The chance of scum being in any random group of 3 people is 59.5%, so I mean you're not wrong...
Alright my bad I guess, I'm bad at percentages :U

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
Guess I chose the wrong word? I was just trying to have fun with my verb choice, lol.

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.
Um but I don't really see it as a eliminate-a-lurker wagon. To be fair, I don't recall the last time I played with Celever in general, let alone him as scum, but I'm not basing my read on Cel off of meta right now. I'm basing it off of his posts, and his posts read genuinely scummy to me. Why would he say he has thoughts, but not talk about them? Also the fact that he says there is nothing to talk about in the 14 pages of discussion we have right now, and sort of just blowing it all off? Okay, of Ephe vs Cel right now, I simply see Celever as the more scummy one.

The Celever seems to waste one of our very few eliminations on someone who won’t provide much info if they flip town
Okay, I've got a question, what info does Cel's flip provide vs what info Ephe's flip provides?

Also, if a town member is eliminated, they become a tree stump and can still talk during the day, just not vote, correct? Or am I misunderstanding how that works?
 

Ephemera

just a little longer...
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Also, if a town member is eliminated, they become a tree stump and can still talk during the day, just not vote, correct? Or am I misunderstanding how that works?

pretty much. If we miselim a town today, it stings but not too much, since they'll be host-confirmed town, but the lack of a vote can significantly harm their thread presence and agency.

Gonna put this out there right now, because it needs to be said: If we ever miselim a town tree, we have to listen to and interact with them. Without a vote it's so easy for scum to just drown out the treestump, so as town it's our responsibility to make sure that the host-confirmed town player we have can still help us.
 
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