Finished Mafia XLV: Heroes of Askr ~ The Winner Is...

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I think scattered is confirmed town since Felicia is the main protagonist of Fire Emblem Fates. If Felicia is a good guy (well in this case a girl), shouldn't that confirm scattered as good? I wish I would see what the ability is, sadly I can only see which heroes 1 person summons a night. :x
 
I think scattered is confirmed town since Felicia is the main protagonist of Fire Emblem Fates. If Felicia is a good guy (well in this case a girl), shouldn't that confirm scattered as good? I wish I would see what the ability is, sadly I can only see which heroes 1 person summons a night. :x
I don't think your alignment comes into play when you get a hero. @quakingpunch73 could you please confirm?
 
I think scattered is confirmed town since Felicia is the main protagonist of Fire Emblem Fates. If Felicia is a good guy (well in this case a girl), shouldn't that confirm scattered as good? I wish I would see what the ability is, sadly I can only see which heroes 1 person summons a night. :x
Since you can use this once a night, don't claim results for it in the future. That way, if someone claims summoning a hero and lies, you can catch them.
 
TLDR
-Backpedaling
-Lots of flipflopping
-Voting for inactives simply because they're inactive

Here's the backpedaling (and part of the voting inactive point):
##VOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi
This is a real vote. He's providing unnecessary levels of defense in his saying it was a ninja (though rainy's point was bad as all RVS is), is reaching hardcore calling those RVS votes pressure (and is shutting down some conversation in the process), and is just overall trying too hard.
Also, rainy please give a reason better than RVS for your RVS vote. I don't feel like having to say this again. Even Cel's "reason" was better than yours.
So it's a bad thing that I don't want brand new players to feel over pressured and end up getting themselves lynched as town? I don't think I was shutting down conversation, and I definitely wasn't trying to. They could definitely be scum and I'm actually finding Neurowolf a little bit shady right now, since he was active on Discord and he viewed this thread but said nothing. Same thing as to mirdo (except he wasn't on Discord; he was just viewing the thread). Also, you know very well how Lugia plays, NP. We play with him on Discord all the time. He has a tendency to freak out as soon as one vote lands on him and he has absolutely no experience with forum Mafia, so he might think an RVS is pressure.
So this post is threatening and pressuring?
Not really; just an observation, especially since Lorde hosted a game not too long ago where scum set up a Day 1 lynch on a townie fairly easily. I'd like to reference this thread: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thr...e-of-the-royal-palace-game-over.141375/page-2 where a little bit of pressure from what was basically an RVS snowballed into a lynch.
You're reaching harder than S Club 7.

I disagree with this entire post. Ninja wasn't defense it was observation along the lines of "ohey lookit dat das p cool" and nothing more. The point of RVS is pressure so obviously every individual RVS vote is also pressure, and there's nothing wrong with trying too hard.
But that case had actual reasoning given in the RVS. Why specifically would Neuro have any fear about being told, "Welcome to forum mafia!"?

This is the post I'm referring to:
That's no better for your case, because that's Gekki taking the higher ground and basically apologising for something he didn't have to apologise for rather than arguing semantics and distracting discussion. a.k.a he was doing the best thing for town in early Day 1.
Oh wait I can't read that you said it was just an observation. Not sure I believe it, but my line of questioning won't be able to progress if it is true:
##UNVOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi
##VOTE: Neurowolf

Have you read any past games? If not, I highly recommend you do so to familiarize yourself somewhat with how we play on the forums.
Note that all these posts are on the same page (Page 3)
Here's the flipflopping (And the rest of the inactive voting point):
But it's not a backpedal. Pressuring you in that case would have led to something like your 2 page extravaganza with rainy. Even if my gut read says that you are lying about it, your best (and only) defense would be saying what you had just said. Which would have led to a repetitious argument where someone is right but who knows which one? Which helps the town exactly 0.
There's no proof against anyone. The vote on Neuro is insignificant rn, so I feel no need to change it 'cause it still has a bit of use as pressure against the points made against him. If I had the time to put together a real scumread, I would. Gut is leading me towards you as scum for that misquote, but it also could have been an accident.

Though now that you mention it, I do have somebody that could use a bit of pressuring.
##UNVOTE: Neurowolf
##VOTE: Lugia_Likes2dab!

@lugia_Likes2dab! Why haven't you spoken so far?

[/QUOTE]
ISO on Morda:
This is some weird analyzing of XLIII, but wtv. The lowest part is him not reading the conversation, and beginning to tunnel me. I had responded to these comments before.

This tries to do a lot. He defends rainy, and then flops back by making rainy a slight scum read. This is a major scum strategy. He's working to get rainy, a townie, lynched, but is putting stuff as fallback because he knows that will fail. Also, reads lists are way scummy if you aren't about to die.

It's a decent question. Not really much to be gleaned from here.

This is the post that really tips me off. I've almost never seen any aggression from Morda, let alone this (reads to me as super passive-aggressive). That bottom half of the post is so unusual from him, and I can't help but think it's because he's scum again. Also, please explain where I did backpedal. Because I explained why I didn't and you haven't countered it at all. For the second time this game, he's ignoring what I'm saying to defend myself. And I believe that may be scum wanting to eliminate experienced players.
Finally, being exciting to "find a flaw" in my reasoning is something I read as scum wanting to capitalize on a small thing, not town wanting to find the best lynch. Because there have been plenty of reasoning flaws so for this game.

Good enough points there.

This flip-flop that he claims is for no reason really is certainly interesting... "All the other people" who got voted by me=2. Gekki has actually voted with intent to lynch more than I have. Also, he should know why posting vw helps town absolutely 0 by now.

This is also a good post. I was wondering the same about scattered.

tl;dr
Points towards scum:
-Scum Flip-Flop on Rainy's alignment.
-Ignores my arguments.
-Posts vw even if it helps nobody but scum.
-Uses shady reasoning (the last vote for me over Gekki for no reason, happy to find a flaw) that makes him seem opportunistic to lynch a vet.
-Extremely unusually aggressive.

Points towards town:
-He's asking questions that I was wondering myself.

For me, that one point is completely overwhelmed by that crazy aggression, ignoring me (in efforts to get a lynch on a vet), and the classic (and only helpful to scum) flip-flop and vw comment:
##UNVOTE: Lugia_likes2dab!
##VOTE: Mordacazir
Got one time idol result that Neuro targeted scattered (not tracker or watcher, just informed me of Player 1 targeting Player 2 last night), so I may as well claim it and confirm that Neuro likely did that (I'd suggest that if anyone else has a one-time investigative idol, they may as well say their result once it's used up, since scum can't doing anything nightkill-wise based off of it). Quote:

Looking back over yesterday, I didn't like how Gekki handled the Blob situation at all (considering that the reason for possible modkill was revealing being town), so:
##VOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi
Morda can wait.
TLDR:
-Off meta
-2 strange flipflops
-Led a mislynch on Blob (even though she was modkilled she would probably have been lynched anyways)

Morda's meta is being unaggressive; this game he's been the opposite. He's been aggressing someone since the beginning of Day 1.

Strange flipflop #1:
Camo and bb are really experienced players so take into account that he isn't as experienced as them.

You don't even mention lordes post? Shifting attention to NP again?
For now:
##unvote
##vote: GekkisaiDaiNi

@NinjaPenguin Your still scummy though and if gekki responds to lordes case I will switch my vote again to you.
@Jadethepokemontrainer @Blob55 Why do you have a vote on Lugia?
And changing my vote to NP again because if NP is lynched, we get information on multiple people (especially Gekki). And all the other people who got voted by NP.
It's not because his answer to lordes case, where he basically admitted to doing all of it.
##unvote
##vote: Ninjapenguin

And Celever has a double vote weight. @Celever This is still your RVS vote so please remove it.
Note that these two posts are within 5 posts of each other.

Strange flipflop #2 (Within the same post he defends and attacks rainy):
@GekkisaiDaiNi
1. Isn't really important right now because we don't know the alignement of 1 them.
2. He is acting slightly out of character, but I haven't played with him since dazzling star. Is still pretty scummy.
3. Where? I cant find it.
4. You are the one pressuring him. If he wouldn't react strongly he will get even more pressure. It isn't scummy.

I think this is a townie reaction. But that's out of character.

I just don't believe this honestly. Discord mafia is with a lot less players so it mist be different.

This isn't a "coached" reaction. Still don't understand why you think he's scum. Can someone catch me up on that?

You just kept pressuring him when he gave a good defense. That's why it's tunneling.
Reads list:
@rainyman123 - Slight scum - Don't believe Gekki's case, but he does hace a different meta.
And don't have a lot of time right now, will finish this when I come home.
-Rainy reacts in a strange way to even the smallest bit of pressure, and has mentioned an indie (which is strange; it could mean he's the indie since Quaking didn't announce whether or not there is an indie). He is also off meta; normally he is very passive and doesn't really defend himself; this game he's defended himself in a very panicky way. I think if there is an indie it's almost certainly rainy; but I don't think he's scum.

-Neuro has been posting fluffily and backpedaled a little bit (shade was cast on his first post, and he responded by switching his vote and saying "it was a bad post :/"). He is, however, brand new to forum Mafia, and there are better cases than the case on him.
 
TLDR
-Backpedaling
-Lots of flipflopping
-Voting for inactives simply because they're inactive

Here's the backpedaling (and part of the voting inactive point):








Note that all these posts are on the same page (Page 3)
Here's the flipflopping (And the rest of the inactive voting point):
Please explain more than this. Because unless you bold what you call flipflopping, I can't defend (this is the same point as Neuro; quoting 1,000 posts won't help explain the point at all). The other points I've defended (backpedal a million times, voting Lugia was to say, "be active", not a real vote; it's a pretty obvious difference imo) and you (and everyone else) still haven't rebutted them at all, so they're basically null as far as I'm concerned. You're also ignoring my arguments as much as Morda; and if either of you are town, you need to stop the tunnel vision or you'll lead a counter-lynch instead of voting Simsands.
Same thing with your Morda "case." What you call "flipflop" is a completely different thing in each post (one hedging alignment, another being vote flippy for no apparent reason). Your "case" on Morda is completely weak compared to my case on Morda, and almost seems like you tried to make it to devalue the points on him and actually strawman my argument into something much worse.
 
Please explain more than this. Because unless you bold what you call flipflopping, I can't defend (this is the same point as Neuro; quoting 1,000 posts won't help explain the point at all).
The posts speak for themselves. You voted for me, then Neuro, then Lugia, then Morda, then me again. The posts show that and there's nothing for me to add to it.
The other points I've defended (backpedal a million times, voting Lugia was to say, "be active", not a real vote; it's a pretty obvious difference imo) and you (and everyone else) still haven't rebutted them at all, so they're basically null as far as I'm concerned.
There was no reason for you to vote someone for the sole reason of getting them to be active; especially not twice, and especially not when there are much better cases with actual logic behind them. All you've said about the backpedal is "no it's not a backpedal" and it obviously is. Anyone who knows what the word backpedal means knows that it is.
You're also ignoring my arguments as much as Morda; and if either of you are town, you need to stop the tunnel vision
So this is ignoring your arguments?:
Could you explain this to me please? I honestly have never heard that a read list would be considered scummy. It's just a way to get to say opinions about everyone right?

Could you qoute your arguments because i haven't found them.

I'm only tunneling you because I don't want to start a 3-pages argument with gekki. And he is mew to the game so it might be his playstyle.

I am not that smart, bit also not so dumb to come up with that strategy. If I knew it would fail, why would I use this strategy.

Man, I'm bad at making jokes.

You backpedaled here

This is a backpedal right? And why do you think I'm scum, when I'm aggressive

I suggest you also read my scum games, like superheroes or http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thr...ver-town-wins-now-w-postgame-analysis.126822/

What is OOC?
Morda does have somewhat of a tunnel vision on you, but I don't. I just made 2 cases and noted 2 scummy things. How is that tunneling?
or you'll lead a counter-lynch instead of voting Simsands.
What does Simsands have to do with anything?
Same thing with your Morda "case." What you call "flipflop" is a completely different thing in each post (one hedging alignment, another being vote flippy for no apparent reason). Your "case" on Morda is completely weak compared to my case on Morda, and almost seems like you tried to make it to devalue the points on him and actually strawman my argument into something much worse.
I don't agree with all of your points on morda and some of them are outdated. I don't see why posting vw is scummy, and morda stopped tunneling you (the vote switch to Blob). He also stopped ignoring your arguments. Every other point against him was illustrated in my case.
 
Oh, just realized why posting vw is scummy, it makes scum aware of who has higher vw, so it paints targets on the backs of people who do. Is this correct @NinjaPenguin?
 
The posts speak for themselves. You voted for me, then Neuro, then Lugia, then Morda, then me again. The posts show that and there's nothing for me to add to it.
And this is an actual point. When you say flip-floppy, it means nothing. This means something. As for the point, it's called RVS, attention, inactivity, and then two real votes. You've been just as bad, except you have everyone who you vote as scumspects.
There was no reason for you to vote someone for the sole reason of getting them to be active; especially not twice, and especially not when there are much better cases with actual logic behind them. All you've said about the backpedal is "no it's not a backpedal" and it obviously is. Anyone who knows what the word backpedal means knows that it is.
Yep definitely twice! :)
And I've explained why it's not a backpedal and quoted it 1,000 times. Look at my argument and say something about it. Because this bs strawmanning is really getting on my nerves.
So this is ignoring your arguments?:

Morda does have somewhat of a tunnel vision on you, but I don't. I just made 2 cases and noted 2 scummy things. How is that tunneling?

What does Simsands have to do with anything?
I don't know what "this" is, but I'm sure I could tell you how it is if you bolded the expressed thing you wanted me to look at! K thx!
You're tunneling my alignment by refusing to acknowledge my argument. Maybe not only my case, but you literally don't listen to defense. That's tunneling.
I don't agree with all of your points on morda and some of them are outdated. I don't see why posting vw is scummy, and morda stopped tunneling you (the vote switch to Blob). He also stopped ignoring your arguments. Every other point against him was illustrated in my case.
Except he stopped tunneling and ignoring me because I called him out on it. Isn't that a backpedal flippity-floppity in your opinion?
And your "case" was a shamble of quoting posts and not explaining then.
Oh, just realized why posting vw is scummy, it makes scum aware of who has higher vw, so it paints targets on the backs of people who do. Is this correct @NinjaPenguin?
Not exactly. It just can just have a chance of incentivizing certain kills over others, and saying it our loud just allows scum to be lazy. Town has absolutely nothing to gain from knowing vote weights, and scum at least has something.
 
Oh and simsands was a case of me alignment tunneling bb as scum, which basically confirmed simsands (the real scum) as town in my mind.
When you're so confident you're right, you (in a general sense) don't listen to the obvious stuff in front of you, and it makes you a bad player. For example, I actually had a counter-claim on sim, but ignored it because I was so sure he was town.
 
And this is an actual point. When you say flip-floppy, it means nothing. This means something. As for the point, it's called RVS, attention, inactivity, and then two real votes. You've been just as bad, except you have everyone who you vote as scumspects.

Yep definitely twice! :)
And I've explained why it's not a backpedal and quoted it 1,000 times. Look at my argument and say something about it. Because this bs strawmanning is really getting on my nerves.

I don't know what "this" is, but I'm sure I could tell you how it is if you bolded the expressed thing you wanted me to look at! K thx!
You're tunneling my alignment by refusing to acknowledge my argument. Maybe not only my case, but you literally don't listen to defense. That's tunneling.

Except he stopped tunneling and ignoring me because I called him out on it. Isn't that a backpedal flippity-floppity in your opinion?
And your "case" was a shamble of quoting posts and not explaining then.

Not exactly. It just can just have a chance of incentivizing certain kills over others, and saying it our loud just allows scum to be lazy. Town has absolutely nothing to gain from knowing vote weights, and scum at least has something.
I think it's pretty obvious what I want you to look at when I say "see here" and put a quote beneath it... :/

Where did you try to prove it wasn't a backpedal? I don't see the post.

I've not been as bad as you flipflop wise, I've voted for two people legitimately and had an RVS. The entire prospect of voting for people because they're inactive is just dumb, and doing it more than once is just pointless.

It is a bit of a backpedal/flipflop on morda's part. Add that to my list of points against him.

Once again, the posts explain themselves. And I did also give a TLDR of points on him.
 
Okay, found your post on the backpedal. It's still scummy because voting inactives is pointless and gets the town nowhere. Otherwise your argument makes sense.
 
I think it's pretty obvious what I want you to look at when I say "see here" and put a quote beneath it... :/
.
No, because that post was irrelevant to you, and I thought you were trying to defend yourself. That being said, Morda stopping then b/c I called him out.
Where did you try to prove it wasn't a backpedal? I don't see the post.
Oh, poor little Gekki, it's not just one. Read this and rebut it:
But it's not a backpedal. Pressuring you in that case would have led to something like your 2 page extravaganza with rainy. Even if my gut read says that you are lying about it, your best (and only) defense would be saying what you had just said. Which would have led to a repetitious argument where someone is right but who knows which one? Which helps the town exactly 0.
Unless you meant something else like that post just implied. In that case, people are sometimes inactive because they think it gets them not lynched or killed, which allows them to play longer (which is false, btw, cause being inactive is not playing). When I vote Lugia, if he's that type of inactive, he'll potentially get fear he may be lynched (and therefore not get to play longer) and begin to post.
I've not been as bad as you flipflop wise, I've voted for two people legitimately and had an RVS. The entire prospect of voting for people because they're inactive is just dumb, and doing it more than once is just pointless.
Haha no. Votes aren't everything. Look at this gem of a post:
TLDR
-Backpedaling
-Lots of flipflopping
-Voting for inactives simply because they're inactive

Here's the backpedaling (and part of the voting inactive point):








Note that all these posts are on the same page (Page 3)
Here's the flipflopping (And the rest of the inactive voting point):
TLDR:
-Off meta
-2 strange flipflops
-Led a mislynch on Blob (even though she was modkilled she would probably have been lynched anyways)

Morda's meta is being unaggressive; this game he's been the opposite. He's been aggressing someone since the beginning of Day 1.

Strange flipflop #1:


Note that these two posts are within 5 posts of each other.

Strange flipflop #2 (Within the same post he defends and attacks rainy):
-Rainy reacts in a strange way to even the smallest bit of pressure, and has mentioned an indie (which is strange; it could mean he's the indie since Quaking didn't announce whether or not there is an indie). He is also off meta; normally he is very passive and doesn't really defend himself; this game he's defended himself in a very panicky way. I think if there is an indie it's almost certainly rainy; but I don't think he's scum.

-Neuro has been posting fluffily and backpedaled a little bit (shade was cast on his first post, and he responded by switching his vote and saying "it was a bad post :/"). He is, however, brand new to forum Mafia, and there are better cases than the case on him.
[/QUOTE]
You just declared 4 people as scum. You almost certainly voted Neuro Rainy and myself legit (idk if you voted Neuro, but you were certainly going after him at some point in time iirc). And Morda you're on the edge with. That's pointing the finger at tons of people. Actually pointing the finger myself: only twice.
 
No, because that post was irrelevant to you, and I thought you were trying to defend yourself. That being said, Morda stopping then b/c I called him out.

Oh, poor little Gekki, it's not just one. Read this and rebut it:

Unless you meant something else like that post just implied. In that case, people are sometimes inactive because they think it gets them not lynched or killed, which allows them to play longer (which is false, btw, cause being inactive is not playing). When I vote Lugia, if he's that type of inactive, he'll potentially get fear he may be lynched (and therefore not get to play longer) and begin to post.

Haha no. Votes aren't everything. Look at this gem of a post:
TLDR:
-Off meta
-2 strange flipflops
-Led a mislynch on Blob (even though she was modkilled she would probably have been lynched anyways)

Morda's meta is being unaggressive; this game he's been the opposite. He's been aggressing someone since the beginning of Day 1.

Strange flipflop #1:


Note that these two posts are within 5 posts of each other.

Strange flipflop #2 (Within the same post he defends and attacks rainy):
-Rainy reacts in a strange way to even the smallest bit of pressure, and has mentioned an indie (which is strange; it could mean he's the indie since Quaking didn't announce whether or not there is an indie). He is also off meta; normally he is very passive and doesn't really defend himself; this game he's defended himself in a very panicky way. I think if there is an indie it's almost certainly rainy; but I don't think he's scum.

-Neuro has been posting fluffily and backpedaled a little bit (shade was cast on his first post, and he responded by switching his vote and saying "it was a bad post :/"). He is, however, brand new to forum Mafia, and there are better cases than the case on him.
You just declared 4 people as scum. You almost certainly voted Neuro Rainy and myself legit (idk if you voted Neuro, but you were certainly going after him at some point in time iirc). And Morda you're on the edge with. That's pointing the finger at tons of people. Actually pointing the finger myself: only twice.[/QUOTE]
Mmkay first off, can you stop talking in this way? All it does is annoy me and add to the fluff someone reading your posts has to work through to understand your point.

I didn't "declare" anyone as scum. I made 2 cases and pointed out two odd things. Why is it a bad thing to look into multiple leads at once?

That's bad reasoning. Just poke people when they're inactive. Really all voting for them ends up doing is dragging conversation away from those who have real cases on them and distract the town.

I never voted for Neuro. Early on I made one post dissecting the first post he made in the thread, but I never really pushed it.
 
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