Finished Werewolf XXXIII: Order in the Court!- Congratulations Law!

[Scattered mind]

Btw - In case the term is not in the doc
Echoing- repeating something another player has already said.

Btw 2 - What do you think about the KX case ?

 

[thegrovylekid]

I'm not sure which game you are referring to (I cant remember a situation when Camo and Yeowie were both scum >.>), but note that in this scenario, Camo appears to be pushing for Yeowie while there was another lynch to fall back on. The fact that there was votes piling on you (and presumably not Yeowie) also meant that the lynch likely would not go through, so Camo could take the opportunity to gain some towncred.

That was Melee.

Camo. Keeps. Defaulting. To. Lynching. Celever.

You know, I'm really curious as to how you know this. I've been keeping track of what Camo actually gets into the thread and he hasn't gone after Celever AFAIK.

 

[Skyleaf2000]

Btw 2 - What do you think about the KX case ?

I'm...not exactly sure how to put my thoughts on him into words, but I'll do my best. My mind works in images.

Imagine a stage with a huge spotlight ring lighting most of it. People are standing and wandering all over this stage. The more I study them in-game, the deeper red-colored they become on the stage. People are identified as strange (perhaps scummy) to me when spots of other colors flicker across them. More flickers appear when they've made weirder posts.
Right now, Celever is dark pink. Not red, because I don't know everything about how he plays. You and Simsands are very very close to white, because I get next to no read whatsoever on you two. However, Simsands has next to no "scum flickers" because he seems to be Phoenix.
However, not everyone is in the spotlight. King Xerneas is a good example. He stands at the edge of the light, mostly in but partly out. He's completely white, but he's had a couple small scum flickers. He seems to mostly avoid everyone's gazes but if you manage to spot him he will stay put, meeting your eyes firmly and neither seeming scared nor angry.

Does that make sense? If not, please ask questions.

 

[double o squirtle]

King Xerneas is at L-3

 

[Scattered mind]

Skyleaf- This is more like saying what are the vibes you are getting from KX. I am asking about the current case on KX.

 

[Celever]

So I won't seem like I'm bandwagon-ing, I'll do this really quickly before I make my statement. ##UNVOTE: Celever
@Celever , I remain unsure who truly identified Phoenix first, but whether you were first or second, what in the heavens could you possibly accomplish with this?

Literally all I could see this accomplishing is getting an instant target for scum, and maybe satisfying your emotion for a second. I know how good it can feel to deliver a sudden reveal, but I can't see how this would do anything but hurt town. If he's Phoenix, scum now know and will want to kill the high prosecutor. And from Simsands' recent posts, he seems to agree with being Phoenix.
Maybe you did see TGK slip and reveal him. BUT THERE WOULD STILL BE A CHANCE SCUM WOULDN'T SEE WHAT YOU DID. What did you hope to accomplish by "outing Phoenix?"
All I can see happening is bringing Simsands into the spotlight and making him a particularly delectable treat for scummies.
Have I missed something, @Celever ?

As scattered mentioned, others were asking about this on the past couples pages -- particularly Robin. If you read back over those posts, I think you'll find your answer! If you see something you still don't understand, just ask about it though. <3

Because of these two things Celever said. And that bandwagoning is generally a negative thing, as far as I can tell.


To reply to you, Cel, read http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/werewolf-xxxiii-order-in-the-court-day-3-trial-murders-murders-everywhere.131958/page-68#post-2797998
In addition, lately it has seemed like you're mainly just trying to get votes off of you, and I'm having difficulty telling who you're trying to make people vote on, instead of you. Are you trying to make us vote TGK? What about this?

I want people to vote for Xerneas. I thought that was fairly clear, given that the whole time I was talking about TGK I kept reiterating that I by no means think he's scum, and that not clean =/= definitely scum. Also my huge case on Xerneas and vote being planted on him should have been an indicator :U
##UNVOTE ##VOTE: King Xerneas. I don't think I took my vote off Carson yet, right?

Camo ALWAYS goes after Celever. If he didn't, that would be scummy, and Camo's way too smart a player for that.

Before this game, he hadn't "gone for me" since Werewolf XXVII, IIRC. Maybe in PMD too, which was still 3 games ago. We're on XXXIII now, which is a pretty long break really. You're exaggerating big time. We argue sometimes, but anyone who's paying attention to these games will have noticed that we're not arguing as much any more. Therefore, Camo had an ulterior motive to arguing with me this time besides just "we always argue, so let's pretend to". Especially when, in my only other game as scum on this site, me and Camo were on the same team and intentionally didn't fight (Harry Potter). You're pretty much on my hit list tomorrow, because I think you're really scummy lol. I'm half tempted to make a case on you now because there's a lot of evidence I could piece together to indict you and a part of me thinks you're better than Xerneas, but I think switching momentum from one to the other is too tough a feat at this point.

You know, I'm really curious as to how you know this. I've been keeping track of what Camo actually gets into the thread and he hasn't gone after Celever AFAIK.

....*sigh*

I don't think I should have to do this, but no one else has done so. Did you just say Camo hasn't gone after me in this game? Or did you mean beyond the grave? Because like, I'm 99% sure that you've quoted something from him saying I'm scum. >_>

 

[thegrovylekid]

I don't think I should have to do this, but no one else has done so. Did you just say Camo hasn't gone after me in this game? Or did you mean beyond the grave? Because like, I'm 99% sure that you've quoted something from him saying I'm scum. >_>

He hasn't really gone for you from beyond the grave except for maybe 1 or 2 messages. PMJ has gone for you from beyond the grave, that's probably who you're thinking of.

 

[Celever]

He hasn't really gone for you from beyond the grave except for maybe 1 or 2 messages. PMJ has gone for you from beyond the grave, that's probably who you're thinking of.

Well you've quoted Camo going after me, and you're clearly only leaking stuff which Camo asks you to, so the only logical inference we could have made is that he is still pursuing me, and to an extent he still is. You always have issues with perspective in werewolf, and it's happened a couple times in this game alone. Remember to think about what the person you're responding to knows as opposed to what you know -- we don't have access to the dead chat!

 

[thegrovylekid]

Well you've quoted Camo going after me, and you're clearly only leaking stuff which Camo asks you to, so the only logical inference we could have made is that he is still pursuing me, and to an extent he still is. You always have issues with perspective in werewolf, and it's happened a couple times in this game alone. Remember to think about what the person you're responding to knows as opposed to what you know -- we don't have access to the dead chat!

He's actually entirely stopped pursuing you.

 

[Celever]

He's actually entirely stopped pursuing you.

Well we couldn't know that.

And if he's scum, that's his best course of action; Camo wants me lynched, and bb is using his pressure as evidence that I'm town. Therefore, him ceasing to pursue me is good evidence I'm town too! :v

 

[thegrovylekid]

And if he's scum, that's his best course of action; Camo wants me lynched, and bb is using his pressure as evidence that I'm town. Therefore, him ceasing to pursue me is good evidence I'm town too! :v

It's more like he's forgotten you existed than he's actually stopped pursuing you. He's instead trying to convince me that PMJ is an indie.

pmj1234567890
lol
143
Camoclone

05-10-2016
07:04 PM ET (US)
I suspect he still has a win condition he is able to fulfill but I don't know that for sure. Be careful around him.
142
Camoclone

05-10-2016
06:57 PM ET (US)
Second of all why would scum use an ability on PMJ that hides their flip when you are still alive? That makes literally 0 sense.

 

[Skyleaf2000]

Skyleaf- This is more like saying what are the vibes you are getting from KX. I am asking about the current case on KX.

Do you mind compiling the case on him? It helps me when I have all the facts right in front of me rather than having to read through several pages of mixed ideas. ^^;

 

[Reinforce]

All right, I'm finally here and settled, time to read and catch up.

 

[Celever]

Do you mind compiling the case on him? It helps me when I have all the facts right in front of me rather than having to read through several pages of mixed ideas. ^^;

The vast majority of the logic being used is derived from the case I posted a couple pages back. <3 There have been some advancements here and there since then, but if you've been reading along you should have noticed it.

 

[Scattered mind]

King Xerneas claimed very early his role with the list of role names, explaining how he fear that he might not survive the night. That list had the safe claim of Professor Palutena- the indie. The scum team then killed PP night 1. Myself and others believe this is not a coincidence, and that the real idea behind KX's ability is to help the scum team finding the Indie, and that the reason KX claimed that so early is to appear town.

 

[Scattered mind]

And btw, Celever's full case on KX is on page 61.

 

[Scattered mind]

I don't know @Celever, I was actually reading Jabberwock as townie because of the post he blamed Camoclone over a similar sentence he made in another game where Camo was scum. (before there was anything on Camo) My logic is that scum Jabberwock is often avoiding scumhunting and more talking about any other thing. Though he is really quiet lately.

 

[Celever]

I don't know @Celever, I was actually reading Jabberwock as townie because of the post he blamed Camoclone over a similar sentence he made in another game where Camo was scum. (before there was anything on Camo) My logic is that scum Jabberwock is often avoiding scumhunting and more talking about any other thing. Though he is really quiet lately.

I think that avoiding scumhunting is exactly what he's done today! Days 1 and 2 he was fine, but his planting his vote and then trying to stay as under the radar as possible during Day 3 are super scummy lol.

 

[Celever]

Oh, this was something I meant to bring up earlier but never did. It is relevant to your question @Skyleaf2000, so you should read this post too:

Phoenix Wright's utility is to be clean. Not only does an important role name not necessarily equal a strong role, but in this game, Phoenix shouldn't have a strong role. Why? He can be cleaned, and a clean townie with a power role is a dangerous combination. Both of our hosts are new and this isn't at all an obvious connection to make during game design, so I'm not going to say that it's a huge point which is going to change our lives... but I feel like a lot of the newer players are assuming that more important characters get more important roles, when that isn't at all the case.

 

[Scattered mind]

Hmmmmmmm

And bb was surprisingly ready to agree to sim's case. It took you four minutes to read through all of that and have it convince you that Cel's a decent lynch? It's taken me ten to skim through it a few times and get a general idea of what sim's charging Celever with, and I still don't agree with a lot of it.

Jabberwock admits that the initial case on Celever is weak. (while trying to push a lynch on simsands).

I'm going to take this as meaning that if Camo had to convince everyone to go along with what he said, the scum team has some pretty experienced players who aren't Camo. ##VOTE: SIMSANDS

Still trying to push for simsands lynch.

Actually, just realized that as per Vom's and KoN's game, simsands' scum meta is taking the lead to an extent, but I don't think he would argue over this. Just feels off. I'm still leaning scum on him, but *sigh*. Not worth a vote. ##UNVOTE: SIMSANDS.

backpedaling?

I'm convinced Celever is either scum or indie. I've noticed him readily agreeing to what I said twice over the course of the last day without any preamble.
I accused simsands of being scum because he didn't take Celever's scum claim as sarcasm, and Celever said he agreed with me and offering a halfhearted excuse for not calling it out before.
Later, I mentioned that bb couldn't've read through sim's entire case on Celever in the space of four minutes, and Celever jumped on that too.) Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but this sort of buddying doesn't feel like Celever's playstyle at all. It almost makes me feel like he's trying to frame me in the event that he flips scum.

And then he starts speculating about the vig being an indie. That seems a little out there, no? Rather reminiscent of what I was called out for in Fire Emblem: making a far-fetched claim that I only could have thought of had I known it to be true.

##UNVOTE ##VOTE: CELEVER

The reason why Jabberwock votes for Celever is because Celever tries to buddy him to make him look bad if Celever flips scum. (who's worried about that? sounds like something a scum player would try to avoid. town players don't need to care if someone that is scummy agrees with them, since all it means for them is that that player is trying to look townie).

It doesn't really match up with what I've seen of your town meta in the last couple of games. Granted, I haven't played that many games, but I also don't have any better ideas. My vote's going to stay on you until I see a good reason to take it off.

Celever agreed with points I made in more than one game. (all in which he was town). So do you really have no better idea for a lynch ? What is the reason you vote Celever? What do you think about the case on KX?