Discussion What do You Guys think is the BDIF?

Draskk

Draskk

Blast From The Past
Member
Now, before everyone yells, "Garbodor!" let me say a few things. In the past few weeks since Guardians Rising has come out, we've seen the meta perfom about fifty seven different minuscule U-turns in different directions. Coming out of Seattle, Drampa/Garb looked to be heading to about Tier 0. Vespiquen was revived and Deciduplume completely fell off. Then, we saw Wisconsin, where Garbodor took one spot in the top 8, Vespiquen won, Metagross took second, and Zoroark/Drampa took third. Not to mention the fact that Deciplume creeped in play. Vikavolt Bulu also took eighth, helping Metagross in officially putting Stage 2s into the spotlight again. Now, fast forward to Mexico City, and standing right at #1 is Zoroark/Drampa. Two Garbodors seperate Zoroark and Greninja, which marks Greninja's first top 8 since Worlds last year, I believe. Gallade/Octillery, a completely forgotten about budget deck from a long time ago, managed 13th. Anyways, what I'm trying to say here, is we have old decks flying out of nowhere into almost BDIF status, some other old decks trying to readjust to Garbodor (Namely Volcanion and Turbo Dark), and a bunch of new decks all battling it out. Every tournament it seems like another BDIF contender is revealed. Personally, I think the BDIFs are Garbodor, Zoroark BREAK/Drampa-GX, and Vespiquen. But, I may be wrong. Let me know which deck you guys think is the best :)
 
Vespiquen is definetly Tier 1 :). There isnt really telling what the BDIF is, but the 3 you named are definetly about most. I feel like Tapu Bulu/Vikavolt is decent and has solid matchups, but its stilled outclassed by other things.

I love the resurgance of stage 2 decks, but I csnt bring myself to play them. Theyre too slow and not my style.
 
I question that there really is a BDIF in the new format. There are several decks that are more than viable and some forgotten decks can even make a comeback. With the next set Rainbow Road could be one of them. The inclusion of Marshadow GX helps the deck a lot. To me it seems that pokémon finally managed to install a format were several decks are competitive . Since each of them have distinct strenghts and weaknesses the choice of the deck depends a lot more on a person's experience with the deck and a judgment of the local meta. However, most competitive decks focus on beatdown. Mill and control received for less love and does not seem that viable due to the time constraints in tournaments.
 
Of course Garbodor is the BDIF. Why else would the other decks be considered good? They were around for a long time but barely figured with the Big Basics and all the rest. The other decks are basically creative ways of taking advantage of the Garbodor deck. When you have so much Garbodor, it isn't difficult to see why these hard counters are doing well.
 
There isn't a BDIF. BDIF is a term used only in Tier 0 metas. This isn't Tier 0. A true BDIF has no bad matchups, and is only beatable by itself. Take LuxChomp for example. That deck was a BDIF, because it was Tier 0. The only thing that beat it was itself. We have a lot of good decks this meta, but not a BDIF.
 
I'm sure BDIF means Best Deck in Format. They'll always be a best deck in format unless it's tied or something. Seems pretty lazy to just say that all the decks are the same.
 
wonderful_whismur said:
I'm sure BDIF means Best Deck in Format. They'll always be a best deck in format unless it's tied or something. Seems pretty lazy to just say that all the decks are the same.
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Not exactly. That's why tiers exist. There's a handful of decks that are better than everything else. Vespiqueen, Garb (both variants), Mega Ray, DeciPlume, and Turbo Dark are the ones at the top. and if you put 20 people on each of those decks, and has a tournament, top cut would be diverse. It wouldn't be all of X deck, it would be a combination of those. and because top cut is a combination, and not one solid deck, that means there isn't a BDIF, because they all got beat at some point. The correct term for our meta would be winning-est. The WDIF as it were. The deck that wins the most. Its not the best, because it still loses to other things, but it wins the most. And yes, there is a difference between the most winning-est and best.
 
wonderful_whismur said:
Of course Garbodor is the BDIF. Why else would the other decks be considered good? They were around for a long time but barely figured with the Big Basics and all the rest. The other decks are basically creative ways of taking advantage of the Garbodor deck. When you have so much Garbodor, it isn't difficult to see why these hard counters are doing well.
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Not really...for instance, Vespiquen was good anyways before Garbodor was around. Zoroark/Drampa was, yes, created to beat Garbodor, but it beats lots of other things too. Garbodor is definitely a top contender for BDIF, but like @TheDude133 said, it's not Tier 0. Vikavolt/Bulu and Metagross weren't made to beat Garb-they just do. Tons of things beat and have beaten Garbodor.
 
Which decks are never beaten? None basically except Shiftry (Next Destinies) in recent memory. But even that was beaten by Wobbuffet/Baltoy.

So instead of being resigned to the fact that Garbodor does get beaten by some decks, let's see which deck would perform the best. And that deck is Garbodor. Period. Can't imagine a meta dominated by Vikavolt.

It's like saying Grant Marley's No Damage deck is the meta just because it won a top 8.. It is an anti-meta deck just like the rest. Now the meta is Garbodor.
 
You and I sort of talked about this over on my thread, but I would call about 7 decks to be the best in format with over 10 more being viable competitors. Garboder changed the format in the most profound way, but by no means does that mean it's the best deck. It's only the best deck if you let it be. (I.e. play the old way which was to spam items and dig through your deck completely on turn 1). I just think people get confused because they think that since how you play and build your deck has become less item reliant, that means everyone is countering Garboder. Though that's true to an extent, it's not radical enough of a change to really say everyone is trying to directly counter Garboder. Again leading me to conclude that even though play style and deck build has changed, and in my opinion for the better, there are a plethora of decks at your disposal that can all do well in tournaments if you pilot them correctly.
 
I think Gyarados should be considered one of the better decks in this format, especially with Decidueye dying down over the past several weeks. Granted, it is still an auto-loss to Decidueye and promo Tapu Koko without techs like Mr. Mime and Machoke. In my testing, I've also found that it has a pretty good Garbodor match-up. I tend to not even worry about the number of items getting thrown into the discard pile, because of the decks ability to retaliate (as a one prize attacker) with a KO on either a Drampa or Lele and win the prize race. I'm really going to hate to see this deck leave the format later this year.
 
Everything they say about it is true, but Greninja is definitely one of the top tier best decks IMO. Yes I'm biased, having piloted it to an okay finish in the June tourney, but I prb wouldn't play it online again as PTCGO makes an already inconsistent deck nigh unplayable. But Shadow Stitching in this meta is just busted with so many ability reliant decks running around.

Besides that, Bees, VikaBulu, and Garb variants are the best. I've tested Zoroark a bit and I think it's overrated or at least only an elite deck in the hands of an exceptional player (ie not me lol), even more so than Bees.

You couldn't pay me to play old meta decks like Darkrai, Volcanion, or mega ray as I think they're just not that great in the new meta and only get occasional results because so many people are still playing them.

Otherwise, I'm flabbergasted someone hasn't figured out a way to make Yveltal work post-Garb. The card is just so good.
 
Best in format? At the moment, before worlds, I'm going to have to go with Zoroark/Drampa. Like you said, Garbodor was pretty much destined to be BDIF, however I believe Zoroark/Drampa is seriously stealing the show right now - it's super strong against the meta, and Zoroark BREAK is basically a stage 2, showing Stage 2s are back. For Worlds? Well, perhaps I'm biased since I will be playing this deck from BSH onwards, but assuming Kiawe won't see too much play in standard I am going to say Golisopod-GX. Sure, we're losing FOGP, but you can't look past 120+ for a single energy; Gallade is seeing plenty of play at the moment and, although it's only a little more likely to occur, that does 120 for 2 energy - and is a stage 2. 120 is a magic number as we know (knocks out garb, throw in a CB + a promo lurantis (Also, remember Golisopod can utilise the promo lurantis!) and you're doing 180 to basic GXs and EXs, killing off Koko, Yveltal, Lele, Lapras (well, it's weak), Tauros and many more) so I can definitely see it being a viable worlds pick.
 
Marowhacker said:
Best in format? At the moment, before worlds, I'm going to have to go with Zoroark/Drampa. Like you said, Garbodor was pretty much destined to be BDIF, however I believe Zoroark/Drampa is seriously stealing the show right now - it's super strong against the meta, and Zoroark BREAK is basically a stage 2, showing Stage 2s are back. For Worlds? Well, perhaps I'm biased since I will be playing this deck from BSH onwards, but assuming Kiawe won't see too much play in standard I am going to say Golisopod-GX. Sure, we're losing FOGP, but you can't look past 120+ for a single energy; Gallade is seeing plenty of play at the moment and, although it's only a little more likely to occur, that does 120 for 2 energy - and is a stage 2. 120 is a magic number as we know (knocks out garb, throw in a CB + a promo lurantis (Also, remember Golisopod can utilise the promo lurantis!) and you're doing 180 to basic GXs and EXs, killing off Koko, Yveltal, Lele, Lapras (well, it's weak), Tauros and many more) so I can definitely see it being a viable worlds pick.
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Baby Volcanion would sweep Golisopod and win the prize trade.. and Volcanion/Turtonator will see play next format. Just Saying.
 
I don't really like the term BDIF for this game, the way weakness works makes it very uncommon that there is a clearly superior deck. I'd say atm it's something like

tier 1
Zoroark/Drampa
Garb/Espeon
Vespiquen/Zoroark

tier 2
Volcanion
Ninetales/Decidueye
Metagross
Vikavolt/Bulu
Greninja

Decent decks that you'll see once in awhile but aren't really 'in the meta' right now
Lycanrock, Gyarados, Turbo Lap, Raichu, Sylveon, M-Rayquaza, Tapu Koko, Zoroark/Umbreon, Yveltal-EX, Darkrai

I think with BSH we'll see definitely see Tapu Koko come out as a serious contender, Darkrai-EX will make a return as well. Could see some Kiawe deck making a run but Lele in every deck heavily punishes that card. I think Gardevoir, Golisopod and Noivern are probably good enough to see some play.
 
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