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Alt. Format Ultra Necrozma GX for Post Rotation (WIP)

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by Duo, May 24, 2018.

  1. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I've been digging around other options to see what decks are going to be good coming up, and it seems pretty clear that Ultra Necrozma GX has a leg up on a bunch of other decks. The Ultra Necrozma GX/Malamar combo is basically the same concept as Dusk Mane Necrozma GX/Magnezone, but the base energy requirements to swing are much lower, your support Pokemon is a Stage 1, not a Stage 2, and Mysterious Treasure offers an absurd amout of consistency. I'd say this power creeps Dusk Mane Necrozma GX pretty hard unless steel types get unbelievable support.

    At the same time, while I am rebuilding Gardevoir GX as a deck that I have on hand (and conveniently would slaughter Ultra Necrozma GX due to its Fairy weakness), I wanted to build a deck that will take advantage of the newer cards and the Ultra Beast theme. Also having a deck that isn't Stage 2 centric would be nice.

    Pokemon x17

    Ultra Necrozma GX x3
    Necrozma GX x1
    Dawn Wings Necrozma GX x2
    Malamar x4
    Inkay x4
    Tapu Lele GX x2
    Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo x1

    Supporter x13

    Cynthia x4
    Sightseer/Sophocles x4
    Guzma x4
    Pokemon Fan Club x2

    Item x11

    Mysterious Treasure x4
    Nest Ball x4
    Choice Band x3

    Stadium x4

    Altar of the Moone x4

    Energy x14

    Psychic Energy x9
    Metal Energy x4
    Beast Energy Prism Star x1

    Let me explain some of my decisions since I'm sure there's a healthy amount of ??? going on in some people's heads (and likely that will be the case even after I explain my decisions). As a basis of construction, I am focused on this deck's consistency before anything else, which is why you don't see cards like Judge in here.

    Ultra Necrozma GX x3 - The main attacker of the deck, and a beautiful one at that. Increased the count to 4 to compensate for removing Ultra Ball.

    Dawn Wings Necrozma GX x2 - Mostly needed for the ability to switch into the active. Malamar is only capable of putting energy onto the bench, so you would like to have something that can consistently make that possible. Guzma & Switch are easy solutions to making this ability not a hinderance for when we need to attack. Increased count to 3 to compenaste for removing Ultra Ball.

    4/4 Malamar Line - This deck can't exist without Malamar in the picture. Well, it can, it just wouldn't be that good. Increased the count to 4/4 because of the removal of Ultra Ball. That will be explained later. Also, Malamar is your win condition. If you don't set up 2 you don't win.

    2/2 Zoroark GX - Simply mandatory to replace our lost draw power from N and Sycamore rotating out. You need the ability to draw cards as often as possible.

    As much as I love Zoroark GX for the draw power and discard outlet, the fact of the matter is that bench space is a realistic issue.

    Tapu Lele GX x3 should be self explanatory. Perhaps you can get away with only 2 copies in this deck in favor of a 4/3 Malamar line due to Mysterious Treasure making Tapu Lele GX even more easy to grab than ever.

    Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo x 1 - Alright, I just want to say that this is an amazing tech card. 60 damage to any GX in play is a fantastic number to widdle away for Ultra Necrozma GX to need less energy to get going. The cost of this tech is that I have upped the count of Steel Energy by 1 in order to make it more playable as well as just make Ultra Necrozma GX more consistent. The other thing about this is the ability to OHKO Gardevoir GX with a choice band attached. Ultra Necrozma GX is weak to Fairy, and you want something that can net you a prize efficient exchange in that scenario. It also OHKOs Sylveon GX naturally, so you can punish a Gardevoir GX's set up. It's also an Ultra Beast and benefits from the rest of the UB themed kit.

    Necrozma GX x2 - This plus Ultra Necrozma GX gives you access to the best in-theme AoE damage you can have access to in this deck. The max potential of Ultra Necrozma GX is 360 damage, and the max potential of Necrozma GX is 600 damage, though realistically speaking, it's more like 300 damage and 400 damage, respectively. Increased count to 2 to compensate for removing Ultra Ball. This combos nicely with...

    Lunala Prism Star x1 - I don't think this needs explaining. You can make an Ultra Necrozma GX OHKO anything next turn with this card.

    Tapu Lele (SM45) - Coming out in the SM7 blisters, this is the Tapu Lele with Magical Swap we've all been wanting for forever. When you combine the AoE power of the Necrozma GXs with Magical Swap, you can suddenly start taking multiple KOs in one turn against ANY deck as opposed to just covering Fairy types. Couple this AoE strategy with the explosive single target damage of both Necrozma GXs as well and you have yourself a lot of damage coverage.

    Cynthia x4 and Guzma x3 are standard. I don't think there are any other supporters that would help out this theme deck specifically. You should not need Steven with how much consistency Mysterious Treasure already brings to the deck.

    Sophocles x4 - This is a deck that likes to see its energy in the discard pile, and this card can help that happen should you naturally draw all your Pokemon and not have discarded a lot through Ultra Ball and Mysterious Treasure. Also, since this deck actually has no bench space to play Zoroark GX, Sophocles is effectively 2 Trades in 1 turn. It's not a bad back up supporter, and it has no hand size restrictions to its playability.

    Sophocles may or may not be obsoleted by Sightseer in the future. I will be testing out both, including a combination of 2/2 split between them.

    Lillie x1 is something I've taken a very fond liking to. If your opening hand conditions are correct, you can open the game incredibly strong, perhaps seeing over 10 cards through your opening hand. Amazing potential that's always worth 1 slot, and almost a guaranteed turn 1 play with 4 Mysterious Treasure to grab Lele.

    Steven's Decision x1 - This is here for when your prize conditions are correct to grab all the Beast Rings you need along with any other cards. Steven's Decision also isn't a bad turn 1 play when you can't attack anyway.

    This supporter is far too slow for this deck and doesn't end up searching anything that leads anywhere. The more I play with Steven's Decision, the more that I feel like it's only meant to be played with the new Metagross and nowhere else.

    Mysterious Treasure x4 and NO ULTRA BALL - Every Pokemon in this deck is searchable with Mysterious Treasure, and with the addition of 4 copies of Sightseer, we would be running a total of TWELVE discard outlets between 4x Ultra, 4x Treasure, and 4x Sightseer. After playtesting this deck for 20 or so rounds, I've realized that this deck has too much discard power and no actual control. You just run out of handsize and run yourself into a dead end playing so much discard. Putting in 4 Sightseers and removing 4 Ultra Balls fixes this problem - it controls the amount of discard we have while adding control to our hand management. Adding 3 copies of Nest Ball allows us to keep our Pokemon counts relatively normal and searches out all the important pieces without discarding for it.

    Choice Band x3 to help out with Ultra Necrozma's mathematics. You technically have 4 choice bands thanks to Beast Energy. Ultra Necrozma hits in increments of 100, 180, 260. You will want a Choice Band to make that 180 hit 210 instead, which is a much better number that OHKOs Zoroark GXs and all Basic GXs. Stack Choice Band with Beast Energy and you can swing 240 on 2 energy discards.

    Switch x4 to help out with mobility. Altar of the Moone requires you to attach energy to Dawn Wings Necrozma GX which makes it worse than Switch. All energy should be going on attackers and attackers only.

    Beast Ring x2 - I always want to see one in the mid-game, but I don't want to overdraw these in the early and late game. They're a great back up strategy for immediate momentum reversal in the instance that you don't have Malamars ready to go at the right time. Dropped from 3 copies to 2 copies to max out on 4/4 Malamar.

    Rescue Stretcher x1 - Between Zoroark GX, Ultra Ball, and Mysterious Treasure, this deck has a lot of discard outlets. Rescue stretcher is here so that you can safely discard Pokemon for hand advantage and not have to worry about not having those Pokemon for later.

    Altar of the Moone - Running a 4th copy helps with stadium wars and gives you more consistency on your retreats. Just keep a Psychic energy on a Dusk Mane Necrozma GX and you have full mobility with Altar of the Moone in play.

    Field Blower x1 - Just here to blow away Choice Band and some stadiums. Honestly considering cutting Field Blower altogether since this 1 copy is unsearchable in this particular deck unless I opt to run 1 Steven's Decision.

    Energy Recycler - This allows you to go crazy with Ultra Ball/Mysterious Treasure to discard energy cards and not be afraid of having no energy in deck for the early/mid game when you meet the prize requirements to play Beast Ring. It allows you to make sure you have the right ratio of Metal & Psychic in deck whenever you need it as well. Steven's Decision allows you to see this card whenever you need it, (use him to search out 2 Beast Rings and 1 Energy Recycler if you need it. Guaranteed energy pool on play.)

    After playtesting, you just simly never need this card. You can play and manage your resources in such a way that you can leave 6 or more energy in your deck by the time your opponent takes their first KO to make all 3 of your Beast Rings live.

    Energy Pool of 8/4/1 I feel will be much more stable than 8/3/1. That 4th steel energy increases the draw rate of steel by quite a bit now that we lose Professor's Letter post rotation. Ultra Necrozma GX can't get going without Steel, so I feel that this is a good call.

    I am still a huge fan of the 4th steel energy since the extra copy reduces the need to play Lady every game just to see them.

    As always, feedback and discussion is welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018


  2. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    Sooo, why no Altar of the Moone? No more Parallel, so there's a big chunk of playable stadiums in decks that aren't replacing yours anymore.

    It might also be a good idea to drop Zoroark for more supporters. The deck already struggles with bench space and clunky hands. Throwing another 2-2 stage 1 might actually hurt more than it helps. Remember that you're playing Mysterious Treasure, so Marshadow from Shining Legends could be a cute option. Copycat is pretty good, Judge is probably needed, and Altar post rotation should be a no-brainer.
     
    Duo likes this.
  3. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    Why no Altar of the Moone? Because I forgot that card exists (lol). Thanks for the reminder.

    You might be completely right about the Zoroark GX. I know bench space is tight, but for the time being I felt it was fine to default dedicate some space to it.

    Copycat and Judge I think depend on playstyle. I don't think every deck should be running Judge if your set up is more important than interupting your opponent's set up, which may not be so difficult in this deck since we have lots of easy set up options while being a Basic + Stage 1 deck, not a stage 2. That being said, I think 2 Judge and 1 to 2 Copycat would probably be the better decision over a 2/2 Zoroark GX line. Sort of teetering on the 1-2 Copycat, because if I run 1 Copycat, then I can run 3 Beast Rings.

    On top of that, the 3 Switch would just be replaced with 3 Altar of the Moone since I'm smart and didn't remember that card exists.

    Thanks for the feedback.
     
  4. Merovingian Rooty tooty water shooty!
    Merovingian

    Articles Staff Member

    Here’s my question.

    Malamar / Necrozma Lise several things to the rotation and it’s not going to setup as fast.

    Have you proxied the deck and tested how early it can get up and running? Also, why not BUS Necrozma, as (where we currently stand), pure Psychic Necrozma is more consistent, but has trouble hitting numbers. Ultra Necrozma is less consistent, but more powerful. If you do proxy the deck, maybe also look into BUS Necrozma-GX.
     
  5. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    It's probably more consistent than any other deck post rotation. Zoroark loses Evosoda and a major draw supporter, so just getting Zoroarks can be a big problem. I do agree with a Necrozma-GX to have more options though.

    Play 2-2 Judge Copycat split. Once you set up, disruption at the same time as drawing is good, since you can Dawn Wings, Psychic Recharge, and retreat to attack again. Copycat is just great. 3 Beast Ring is pretty unnecessary since the window to use it is so small, and because you're less likely to have Psychic Energy in the deck if they're in play or discarded. Not to mention they're hard enough to draw into without using that space for more consistency.

    Why is Dusk Mane here? There are so many better non-GX attackers, and you want to set up to OHKO things. I say it should go for a 4th Altar. Drawing them is a necessity, and when you don't need them, they're discard fodder. Dusk Mane is just another Pokemon that takes bench space and takes your super precious Metal Energy just to not OHKO anything.
     
  6. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I have a full description box for why Dusk Mane is in here in the OP, but I'll do a recap of it.

    Ultra Necrozma GX is weak to Fairy, making Gardevoir GX/Sylveon GX your actual worst nightmare right now. Naturally, you would want a steel Pokemon that is capable of taking immediate revenge KOs.

    Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo has synergy in the following ways:

    1. As an Ultra Beast, it benefits from Beast Ring and Beast Energy.
    2. The steel typing allows you to OHKO Sylveon GX with the 2nd attack and OHKO Gardevoir GX with either Beast Energy or Choice Band equipped.
    3. The first attack to snipe 60 damage on any GX makes it great for attacking opponent basic GXs like Buzzwole GX, Ultra Necrozma GX, Dusk Mane & Dawn Wing. When you're playing a mixed energy deck like this one, there will be times where you will draw Steel not Psychic energy. This gives you a 1 card outlet for that, and it also makes almost every meta relevant basic GX Pokemon only 1 Psychic energy discard away from a KO, with Choice Band (60 from Dusk Mane + 100 from 1 Psychic discard + 30 from Choice Band/Beast Energy = 190). 190 damage is a beautiful number right now, and since everyone is playing Tapu Lele GX, you will always have a free target for the 60 snipe. It's a very energy efficient attack that prevents excess discarding on UN GX in the right situations.

    Also mentioned in my OP, when the Psychic Type Tapu Lele with Magical Swap comes out, there's a good chance that I will be replacing Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo with it, but for the time being I wanted to consider it as a viable option. Gardevoir GX/Sylveon GX is going to be an incredibly consistent deck post rotation due to Magical Ribbon and Alolan Vulpix, and I fully expect it to make a comeback for at least a short period of time. If you can find a better counter to Fairy type decks that has better synergy than Dusk Mane Promo, then please let me know. I don't know every card in the card database anymore.

    I'm not sure I agree with you on Copycat/Beast Ring ratios as most Buzzwole GX lists I see are running 3 copies for the consistency. Here's how I see the two cards:

    Copycat requires your opponent's hand state to be in a perfect situation, and it also requires your hand state to be in a perfect situation to make it really worth playing. The number of times your opponent will be sitting on 6+ cards while you're sitting on 3 or less while having Copycat be the best supporter for turn and not Cynthia or Guzma is incredibly rare, in theory.

    Beast Ring, on the other hand, has a higher ceiling if played at 3 copies than 2. Thanks to Steven's Decision, you can actually search out all 3 copies of them in one turn if that ends up being the best possible play. If you have at least 2 UN GXs in play, you can slam 4 energy into one UN GX for a guaranteed OHKO and then 2 energy onto another. Once you discard 3 Psychic from the one in the active, you can next turn Malamar the energy you just used onto your 2 energy UN GX and have it ready to do 180 damage already. If your max Beast Ring count is only 2, you can never pull this off from 0 energy UN GXs on bench/in play.

    Long story short, You can only play one Copycat in the situation that makes the card useful, whereas you can actually play all 3 Beast Rings within the window of opportunity that you have at 3-4 opponent prizes.

    I honestly believe that Copycat is FAR more situational, and it doesn't gurantee any follow up with whatever setup you might have since you're drawing random cards. Beast Ring, on the other hand, has guaranteed results when played within its window of opportunity. That's just the way I think.

    @Merovingian

    I am in the process of obtaining playsets of all the cards I'm lacking from new expansions and will be playtesting the deck vs post rotation Gardevoir GX/Sylveon GX, which theoretically is one of its biggest weaknesses due to fairy typing. I think the idea of 1 copy of Necrozma GX isn't a bad idea because its GX attack is situationally much better than UN GX. At the same time, I can't ignore the Fairy weakness of UN GX and think that some form of 1 prize attacker that can OHKO fairy will be important for reasons explained above. The playtesting I'm going to do will also help me decide if I actually need that as a tech or not. If not, then I can make room for other cards.

    Friendly reminder that this is a WIP deck as post rotation has not happened and no one has 20/20 vision of the upcoming meta. Please keep on throwing out suggestions. I might turn them down right now, but that doesn't mean I won't reference them later, and other people may agree more with you guys than me so all the information we can get the better.
     
  7. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    Baby Dusk Mane doesn't hit for Weakness with the first attack, and you won't have time to power up the second attack, the Gardy player will not allow that.
     
  8. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I'm never looking to hit for weakness with the first attack. It's to get 190 HP or lower basic GXs in KO range of a 1 energy discard from UN GX with a Choice Band or Beast Energy. That means Buzzwole, Ultra Necrozma, Dusk Mane, and Dawn Wings, and Tapu Lele GX. That's a LOT of viable targets.

    Also you are wrong about it not having time to power up. I mentioned before that as an Ultra Beast it has synergy with Beast Ring. If a Gardy player KOs your UN GX, they are at 4 prizes. You play a Beast Ring to search out 2 steel energies from deck, then Malamar or manually attach Psychic. You can charge up the 2nd attack on the same turn you place him on your bench.
     
  9. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    Oh duh, Beast Ring. I skimmed over your comment, so I missed that part :p. It still seems like it would be inferior to something like regular Necrozma-GX that can blow something up for 190-250, and have the Black Ray option. Or Mimikyu, which can copy Infinite Force for a LOT.
     
  10. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    It depends on the meta really. I don't like regular Necrozma GX because we don't have Max Elixir, Beast Ring doesn't work on it, and we need at least 3 energy to get anything done. I don't see a point in a more expensive attacker than hits for less damage per energy discard. I would only run it for the GX attack, which is tough for me to justify vs Dusk Mane Promo which has 2 attacks, the first one which is useful in any match up because Tapu Lele GX exists, and the second one which counters Ultra Necrozma GX's weakness and can be accelerated much sooner than regular Necrozma GX ever can.

    If Gardy/Sylveon sees little to no play (which I doubt, personally), I would just go ahead and roll the regular Necrozma GX.

    Mimikyu copying Infinite Force will rarely get you the same OHKO as Dusk Mane, and with its low HP count it can get slaughtered with little to no effort. If you have the 1 steel energy on an Ultra Necrozma GX after discarding Psychic, it only takes 2 energy and a choice band or 3 energy (1 DCE and 1 fairy) to OHKO you. If you Copycat a 3 energy Gardevoir GX with 2 energy on yourself, you're only hitting 150, 180 max choice banded, and you are guaranteed to lose Mimikyu next turn. And before that, Sylveon GX takes OHKOs on Ultra Necrozma GX for free. Attach DCE, Secret Spring once, and then Sylveon GX can sweep your whole board of Ultra Necrozma GX's and Plea GX your Malamars away.

    Dusk Mane Promo can also survive a Sylveon GX attack or a full bench Zoroark GX and live for more than one turn.
     
  11. AFEX Serena is too cute!
    AFEX

    Member

    Heres the thing i got wrong with UNecrozma, How are you always gonna keep a steel energy on that thing? If you cant, thats a loss to Mill/Stall decks, Where as BUS Necrozma GX takes only psychic energy to roll, meaning no potential loss to stalls and mills, which I like.
     
  12. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    In the situation with Mimikyu, you can accelerate multiple Energy with Malamar. It doesn't matter if Mimikyu gets slaughtered as long as it wins the prize trade. Also, because Max Elixir is no longer a factor, 4-4 Malamar seems busted. No Parallel, no Garb, no problems. Getting 3 on the field sets you up for a long time(4-4 means that you don't get punished for prizing or discarding Malamar).
    Mimikyu also copies Buzzwole, the mirror, big Dusk Mane, and can shuffle itself back in the deck against Greninja GX, which will surely see a lot of play when Acro Bike Friend Ball, which also may not be optimal for keeping Energy. Anyway, you get the point, Mimikyu is clutch. Also, who's to say Sylveon won't Plea a baby Dusk Mane with a metal back into your hand? If they know what you're up to, they can stop it. However, another way to go about this is to combo baby Dusk Mane with Black Ray to snipe GXs off your opponent's field.
     
  13. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    It's not a matter of keeping it on, it's a matter of finding it. Mill completely dies from rotation. No more Flare grunt, Handiwork, or Puzzles.
     
    Merovingian likes this.
  14. AFEX Serena is too cute!
    AFEX

    Member

    Send me a link for friend ball?
    Never saw it.
     
  15. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    With 4 copies of basic steel and 1 copy of Beast Energy Prism, that's 5 energies that you can draw into to hit the steel requirement. It's more common that drawing into 4 DCE in a DCE deck, i.e. Gardevoir GX.

    We also play 3 beast ring for if we lose an early 2 prizes, and 1 Steven's Decision which can search 3 of any card in the deck. If the opponent purposefully stalls to prevent us from using Beast Ring, that just gives us more free time to find 1 copy of steel and set up even more Malamars.

    Finding steel energy is a non-issue in my eyes.
     
  16. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    I'm too lazy to link it.
    Basically, you search your deck for a Pokemon with the same type as a Pokemon you have in play. So like Evosoda, but to hand. It's really good.
     
  17. gumball51321 *thumbs up*
    gumball51321

    Member

    You're not wrong. But what I meant by that is that finding them is more of a problem than keeping them on. Everyone gets bad draws from time to time. Plus you're not factoring in that there's no aggressive draw power, so your odds aren't as high as find 1/4 Energy in a format you draw much more cards in.
     
  18. Merovingian Rooty tooty water shooty!
    Merovingian

    Articles Staff Member

    https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Friend_Ball_(Skyridge_126)

    Friend Ball lets you get a Pokemon from your deck that's the same type as a Pokemon your OPPONENT has in play.

    Friend Ball can be a very dead card depending on your opponent.

    I have been playing control decks for a very long time. And believe me when I say that I have tried scouring for a way that something like Sylveon-GX or Regigigas control could still work.
    There is no control option post-rotation. We need to wait until AT LEAST SM8 for any semblence of control coming back
     
  19. Merovingian Rooty tooty water shooty!
    Merovingian

    Articles Staff Member

    I think that Fairy decks are going to be a non-issue. I can see Metagross-GX decks functioning post-rotation as a weird cross of VikaBulu and Malamar. Between that and all that Steel support we got in Ultra Prism could come back to haunt Fairy decks.

    Also, Stakataka-GX will be a thing. People are sleeping on it. Which, fine, that just means I'll be able to get a playset on the cheap.

    I'm going to call it now: Gardy decks are going to be Tier-2 material. It's a clumsy Stage 2 deck that's going to lose to decks that can attack for minimal Energy or have a way to get rid of a lot of it (Malamar / Necrozma). And VikaBulu is a much better Stage 2 deck that clearly outspeeds it--and even that deck is outclassed by Malamar.

    I know I kind of went in a few different directions with that, but as far as being worried about Fairy-type decks go. I can see people using them in the first month or so, but they will drop off the map.


    Also, I'm really on the fence with Baby Dusk Mane. You don't have enough Steel Energy to support its second attack. If you're going to use it, what little time it's actually going to be used will be its first attack. I'm willing to bet that its second attack will be collecting dust.
     
  20. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I've bricked on Fairy Energy running 8 in Gardevoir GX, so I get what you mean but that's a non-factor since all decks can brick.

    I am factoring in the loss of draw power. It doesn't really matter when a deck like Ultra Necrozma GX runs 4 more ways to find Tapu Lele GX than your average deck to find Steven to search for Steel on turn 1 and the fact that the loss of N means that Alolan Vulpix and Sylveon GX become much more reliable. We don't need to Sycamore bricked hands when we can just search for the cards we need and expect to keep them most of the time now.
     

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