Discussion Tier List for 2018 Rotation

Adi

Adi

Aspiring Trainer
Member
The 2018 rotation is just around the corner, and I just wanted to create a tier list for it. I know we are just speculating until worlds and the new format comes, but here would be my tier list. I will update it regularly based on your comments, and if I think something should go on it or be moved.

Tier 1

Gardevoir GX
Volcanion EX
Garbodor/Variants

Tier 2

Alolan Ninetales GX
Metagross GX
Tapu Bulu GX/Vikavolt
Zoroak BREAK/Variants
Darkrai EX/GX
Golisopod GX/Variants

Tier 3
Quad Sylveon GX
Greninja BREAK
Lapras GX/Waterbox

Gardevoir GX: This deck has so much hype, and it has already proven to be doing well from what I've read and seen. This is all I'm going to say about this one because I'm pretty sure 90% of people agree with this choice.

Alolan Ninetales: This deck was already good before Burning Shadows, and it only got better because it gained baby Alolan Ninetales. Baby Alolan Ninetales is very good because so many decks are EX/GX heavy, and they haven't reprinted Hex Maniac. The only way to beat it is to Guzma around it which can be tricky if you haven't taken like 4 prizes.

Metagross GX: This deck is already a pretty good tier 2 deck, but because it matches up so well against the format (Gardevoir GX, Alolan Ninetales GX, Sylveon GX) I'm gonna put it into tier 1. Metagross GX has a hefty 250 health, which means Volcanion EX is one of the few decks that can OHKO it.

Quad Sylveon GX: The energy denial is good because decks in this format run on pretty hefty energy counts. Sylveon GX can pull a combo using Tormenting Spray, a stadium, Delinquent, and Red Card to put you down to 0 cards. Using Magical Ribbon it can pull 3 of these, and if they have one of the cards they can pull it of. Sylveon GX's Plea GX is also a really good GX attack because this meta is pretty heavy when it comes to setup deck.

Tapu Bulu GX/Vikavolt: Hitting for 180 with a potential Choice Band making it 210 is very powerful. The deck typically runs 3 cards to get a lot of energy back into the deck, so discarding isn't really a problem. Tapu Bulu GX's GX attack is also very powerful. Doing 150 and healing off all damage is crazy, and you can hit the magic 180 if you have a Choice Band on it. Plus Aether Paradise Conservation Area was made for this deck. That stops so many OHKO's on Tapu Bulu GX which gives you another turn to attack.

Volcanion EX: This deck is already pretty powerful in this format, and it gains Kiawe in the new format. Steam Up allows you to do a lot of damage, and you can keep on doing it if you have a Starmie down. This deck also has Turtonator GX which can deal a lot of damage with it's 160 base attack. Turtonator's GX attack is also very good in a lot of situations. Volcanion EX decks also run Ho Oh GX which can help against the water matchup.

Garbodor/Variants: His deck has been dominant throughout the current format, and doesn't lose much in the new format. Team Magma's Secret Base is replaced by Po Town, so Garbodor should still be pretty good in the new format.

Golisopod GX/Variants: I don't know that much about this deck, so I can't give you a very deep analysis about why it is tier 2. It is another pretty hyped deck, and people say it is pretty good.

Greninja BREAK: This deck is pretty good in this format, but it loses a couple good cards in the new format. The biggest is Dive Ball which hurts the consistency of the deck. This is really bad because you are basically setting up a stage 3 when you get out Greninja BREAK. People say Greninja BREAK loses Rough Seas, but basically no competitive Greninja BREAK runs Rough Seas. The new grass decks run faster then Greninja BREAK, and OHKO it so that is almost a auto loss.

Lapras GX/Waterbox: Lapras has always been a tier 3 possibly tier 2 deck in this format, but it loses Rough Seas. That kind of solidifies it's place at tier 3. Again I don't know much about this deck, so I can't give you a very good analysis about why it is tier 3.

Zoroak BREAK/Variants: I don't know very much about Zoroak BREAK decks, but I know they will probably be a tier 2 deck. The deck is pretty good in this format and I don't think it loses too much in the new format.

Darkrai EX/GX: I also don't know much about this deck, but I have heard it will be pretty good. I have considered putting this deck in tier 2, but I don't know enough about it to make a decision about that.

These are most of the reasons why I put each deck into the tier they are in. I am very open to changes if I read or see a reason to move or add decks. Any feedback is appreciated.
 
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I think Volcanion will be very strong, as it loses (almost) nothing and gains Ho-oh-GX and Kiawe.

Same deal with Metagross, it gains Necrozma-GX and drops barely anything.

As far as new cards go, I see Gardevoir-GX being a top tier threat, and potentially Golisopod-GX.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
Choice Band lets it kill pretty much anything and losing FoGP mean grass decks are slower than it. Field Blower gives it a easier time against Garb.
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Well since we are talking rotation, choice and field blower are already out. FoGP means deciplume is gone but grass decks that don't use it are still around like Bulu and Golisipod GX is plenty fast. But also greninja is losing cards like dive ball, rough seas, and vs seeker hurts since greninja doesn't use Lele.

So no, Greninja is not a better deck after rotation
 
I run Waterbox (Lapras, manaphy etc)


Apart from rough seas and VS Seeker deserting me, does anyone know if there will be any new cards to help improve the deck?

Cheers
 
The set up with Kaiwe is rediculous and I think it will be meta defining, turn 2 130+ damage is a lot to cope with and so far I havn't seen many direct awnsers to it. Not even Greninja BREAK, great as he is, a stage 2+ set up typically requires more as 1 turn to set up, where Kaiwe decks don't.
 
Greninja may be a dead end because of Promo Giratina. You might be able to counter it with Alolan Muk but then you can't run the pure Greninja TF build which is the best version of Greninja.
 
I think Gardevoir-GX is one of the best decks after rotation. It´s able to beat Garbodor and also punish decks that need a huge amount of energy in play.
 
JDA said:
The set up with Kaiwe is rediculous and I think it will be meta defining, turn 2 130+ damage is a lot to cope with and so far I havn't seen many direct awnsers to it. Not even Greninja BREAK, great as he is, a stage 2+ set up typically requires more as 1 turn to set up, where Kaiwe decks don't.
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The problem with Kiawe is that your turn ends without being able to attack. If you get KO'd by your opponent in the next turn - and there are going to be plenty of decks out there in August that will hit for a lot of damage really early in the game - you basically just blew your game.

Look at it this way: If you Kiawe on a Pokemon and you're going up against Gardy GX, Gardy will do AT LEAST 180 to you on the next turn. I'm not saying there's not a place in the meta for Kiawe - it's one of my top ten cards in BUS - but I'm not sure that it's meta defining.
 
21times said:
The problem with Kiawe is that your turn ends without being able to attack. If you get KO'd by your opponent in the next turn - and there are going to be plenty of decks out there in August that will hit for a lot of damage really early in the game - you basically just blew your game.

Look at it this way: If you Kiawe on a Pokemon and you're going up against Gardy GX, Gardy will do AT LEAST 180 to you on the next turn. I'm not saying there's not a place in the meta for Kiawe - it's one of my top ten cards in BUS - but I'm not sure that it's meta defining.
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You run three copies of Tapu Lele and Ultra Ball and try to get a turn one Kiawe, when you can't attack anyway. Or, if you go second, the only attack you would use otherwise is Power Heater.
 
Ho-oh GX with a kiawe can one-shot basically anything starting turn 2, so you outspeed garde.

Even after garde gets set up, they can OHKO you with 3 energy, but you can ohko them in return as long as you have any 2 of Volc EX/Choice Band/Kukui/Po Town, so they don't win the prize exchange THAT hard once they do get their slower deck ready.

Really, the only issue is setting up your second/third ho-oh, which turt does pretty well with nitro-tank.

I don't think it's BDIF material, but it's definitely worth considering whenever a 190 HP basic with no relevant weakness can start one-shotting things turn 2.
 
Alolan Ninetales doesn't lose much and gains the non gx ninetales with a safeguard esc ability. Tapu Koko gains acerola and super scoop up meaning it could actually be good. Greninja Break loses so many things I'm pretty sure it's just dead (dive ball, rough seas, level ball).
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
Choice Band lets it kill pretty much anything and losing FoGP mean grass decks are slower than it. Field Blower gives it a easier time against Garb.
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Forest rotating will definitely help Greninja and any Grass week mon for that matter.

But ninja is loosing more than it's gaining. Dive Ball, Level Ball, Rough Seas(not popular with Greninja, but a loss nonetheless) and finally TeamMates.

Some one will definitely work around all these but Greninja surely won't be as powerful.
 
Adi said:
Here are the decks I've heard will be really good in the new format.

Greninja Break
Gardevoir GX
Volcanion EX
Metagross GX

Here is a list of decks which I don't know if they will be good, but have potential.

Garbodor/Drampa GX
Alolan Nintales GX
Lapras GX Waterbox
Tapu Bulu GX/Vikavolt
Tapu Koko GX/Raikou

Both lists are pretty small, and I know there are other decks I'm missing. What other top decks will there be? Does anyone have a tier list? Any feedback is appreciated.
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What about Golisopod and Darkrai/Darkrai
 
So most of the cards Greninja is losing can be replaced. Dive ball can easily be replaced by Evosoda, Rough Seas by Lana or Max Potion, Teamates and Ace Trainer are the two cards that really can't be replaced. However, Guzma allows for the possible triple shuriken.

Greninja's biggest problem is Promo Giratina. If Greninja does become a very good deck, people will start teching in Promo Tina. Greninja then theoretically can tech in Alolan Muk, but that means you're no longer running the pure Greninja TF build, which IMO is the best Greninja deck.

So either way, there's always going to be a ceiling for Greninja. It'll be alright if you're climbing the ladder or PTCGO but considering a single Promo Tina will completely shut it down, it probably won't ever do well at a major tournament.
 
21times said:
So most of the cards Greninja is losing can be replaced. Dive ball can easily be replaced by Evosoda, Rough Seas by Lana or Max Potion, Teamates and Ace Trainer are the two cards that really can't be replaced. However, Guzma allows for the possible triple shuriken.

Greninja's biggest problem is Promo Giratina. If Greninja does become a very good deck, people will start teching in Promo Tina. Greninja then theoretically can tech in Alolan Muk, but that means you're no longer running the pure Greninja TF build, which IMO is the best Greninja deck.

So either way, there's always going to be a ceiling for Greninja. It'll be alright if you're climbing the ladder or PTCGO but considering a single Promo Tina will completely shut it down, it probably won't ever do well at a major tournament.
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When playing Greninja I rarely use TF anyway I don’t mind running Mike plus if you ditch TF you can run Lele and Baby Marshadow
 
Right I could be wrong. Post-rotation the pure Greninja TF deck might not be the best way to go.
 
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