Discussion The Gross Misuse Of Ultra Beasts

BrandonHappened

Ghosts and Fairies are kinda my jam
Member
I have a few problems with how Ultra Beasts were handled in the TCG if I'm honest, and I'm gonna break them down.

1. Introduced in SM4
Honestly, I thought that was a bad move, they could've made SM5 the Ultra Beast set and had them star alongside Necrozma, or at least had the set to themselves, instead of the messy way they were shoved at the end of the SM base era.

2. GX
No no no. Not GX's, they should been special UB cards. Like instead of a UB with a GX move and a red skin thing, they could've just been Kartana (UB), Guzzlord (UB) and so on.
Giving them a new mechanic would've given them more potential I think.
They probably wouldn't function without GX moves, but they would definitely work with...

3. Ultra Moves that cost Ultra Energy
Ultra Energy, required for Ultra Moves (UB'S GX moves sort of), discard them after use.
An Ultra Move would cost 2 Ultra Energy, and as they'd be a Special Energy you could only have 4. If Ultra Moves are as good as GX moves, then make it so the Ultra Energies are sent into the Lost Zone.

4. Ultra Space instead of Lost Zone
They renamed LvX to BREAK, so why not rename the Lost Zone to Ultra Space? Maybe even use an Ultra Wormhole card (probably named Ultra Grabber or something) to get cards back from there.

Thoughts?
 

Shfinx

Meta Slave btw
Member
I'd at least like to dream that them keeping the lost zone is to keep it consistent for people who play alternate/unlimited formats. I agree that it would be cool to have UB cards, not just GX Ultra Beasts with a little symbol on them. Though they did this for team plasma, and pulled that off quite well, in my opinion. I think overall they're doing it fairly well. Sure, it would have been timed better. Yeah, they could have been cooler. Yes, they'd probably be fun with some Plasma Lugia EX style attacks (requiring UB energy). But I mean, it's still pretty good. They are being careful to release UB support, and make sure that it matters if something is an UB or not. In that way they're succeeding in making the cards unique.

TL;DR: I agree, but it's still pretty good as is in my opinion.
 

AuraJackle

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Well the are regular ub's and gx ub's seems like they did it that way so that they could have stronger ultra beast with the weakness of gx's
They have handled ultra beast quite well I think they get a unique function with prize cards and there a fairly diverse amount of things they have done with them so far I for one look for word to what the ultra beast block will bring to the game.
As far as lost zone/ultra zone thing the reason for not doing that seems to be that they brought back the lost zone just for prism cards as of now and I think forever there's not gonna be any real interaction with the lost zone outside of prism cards which makes it more of a prism effect not ultra beast
 

crystal_pidgeot

Bird Trainer *Vaporeon on PokeGym*
Member
I do feel like they could have been a unique mechanic that could have been cool to have in the game but they are no different than other Pokemon-GX. I was actually expecting something different.
 

Otaku

The wise fool?
Member
I have a few problems with how Ultra Beasts were handled in the TCG if I'm honest, and I'm gonna break them down.

I'm not one to shy away from criticizing the powers-that-be when they do something wrong. I'll share my thoughts, and I apologize if my wording sounds harsh; I'm not skilled enough at communication to make things sound softer without making what I say three times as long... and with a bunch of annoying emoticons. ;) So I'll just preface it all by saying if I sound "angry", I'm not. I might be worried or irked if there is something I really disagree with, but I'm not frothing at the mouth or anything. XP

1. Introduced in SM4
Honestly, I thought that was a bad move, they could've made SM5 the Ultra Beast set and had them star alongside Necrozma, or at least had the set to themselves, instead of the messy way they were shoved at the end of the SM base era.

This is a solid position, but not an unassailable one. There are two opposing dilemmas; introducing too many new mechanics at once, and the failure to establish a new, firm foundation for the latest generation. Unfortunately, we've got so many new gimmicks, one per set might not be fast enough and all added to a single set would be overwhelming. Even something that might make sense, like alternating one new then, two new things, one new thing, two new things, etc. may have been a problem because marketing (or the like) may have insisted [insert gimmick] was released to coincide with [insert non-TCG but Pokémon thing].

2. GX
No no no. Not GX's, they should been special UB cards. Like instead of a UB with a GX move and a red skin thing, they could've just been Kartana (UB), Guzzlord (UB) and so on.
Giving them a new mechanic would've given them more potential I think.
They probably wouldn't function without GX moves, but they would definitely work with...

Ultra Beasts did get their own designation; it is just that they can be either regular Pokémon or Pokémon-GX. Giving them a full-on new mechanic needlessly complicates the game and makes it that much more difficult for the designers to balance things out. Frankly, there are too many unnecessary mechanics as is. I mean, I'd love to scrap Pokémon-GX and Mega Evolutions and just go back to Pokémon-EX being used to represent Legendary and Pseudo-Legendary Pokémon.

Or better still, do away with all of that for the time being, and the designers learn how to properly balance "regular" Pokémon even if it means our Legendaries are a bit less epic than we'd like. ;)

3. Ultra Moves that cost Ultra Energy
Ultra Energy, required for Ultra Moves (UB'S GX moves sort of), discard them after use.
An Ultra Move would cost 2 Ultra Energy, and as they'd be a Special Energy you could only have 4. If Ultra Moves are as good as GX moves, then make it so the Ultra Energies are sent into the Lost Zone.

Why? Is this something based on the video games? Something you came up with on your own? Seems too complicated, and too vulnerable to many contemporary strategies to prove viable. I'm all in favor of power crunch to get the game where I think it ought to be, and I'm even willing to have to wait for a rotation (maybe even two) for it to really prove good, but I'm just seeing more unnecessary clutter, at least at this point. The TCG is inspired by the video games, but it is not the video games, and it suffers whenever the powers-that-be forget this.

4. Ultra Space instead of Lost Zone
They renamed LvX to BREAK, so why not rename the Lost Zone to Ultra Space? Maybe even use an Ultra Wormhole card (probably named Ultra Grabber or something) to get cards back from there.

Same =/= Similar

BREAK Evolutions are likely a revision of the Level-Up mechanic, but they work differently, much like how Pokémon-ex, Pokémon-EX, and Pokémon-GX all have a lot in common but are not only distinct mechanics because the rules say they are, but because there truly are differences between them. This is an issue because you're using it as the foundation for your argument.

There is a better example of what you are saying. Abilities are the successors to Poké-Bodies and Poké-Powers, which in turn succeeded Pokémon Powers. According to the game's rules, Poké-Bodies plus Poké-Powers equal Pokémon Powers. When cards of the two eras interact, something that affects Pokémon Powers affects both Poké-Bodies and Poké-Powers, and something that states it affects both Poké-Bodies and Poké-Powers also applies to Pokémon Powers; however, something that only affects Poké-Powers or Poké-Bodies won't affect Pokémon Powers. Abilities would just be Pokémon Powers by another name except it has been ruled they aren't.

The other issue is that the entire point of the Lost Zone is that no cards return from there. Other TCG's I've played have set up an equivalent mechanic for their games and it doesn't tend to end well when that "removed from play" area suddenly interacts with a lot of other cards, including those that can reclaim cards from the "removed from play" area. This also reminds me of how frustrating I find the Fossil mechanics we've had over the years. The original concept never really worked well, which is why they kept trying to tweak it and tweak it and then game up and replaced it... twice. At this point, I'd think the logical next step (whether it is truly the right step or not), is to just say "Screw it!". Just make them like everything else. Maybe include a small designator like has been done with Ultra Beasts so that there can be some cards that support and/or counter them, but no built-in specialty mechanics for the Pokémon themselves.
 

BrandonHappened

Ghosts and Fairies are kinda my jam
Member
I'm liking these criticisms tbh.
Thing is the gimmicks will settle post-rotation this year, since EX and BREAK will be gone from rotation.
I think UB's needed their own mechanic completely because the in-game lore states that while they're technically Pokémon, they're also kinda not at the same time.
Lumping them with regular GX's takes away how special UB's actually are.
Maybe some of the mechanics I came up with were a little complicated, but It's still better than being shunned aside and not made the main focus, they're so badly used I think, they're treated like Dark/Light/Team [X] Pokémon, but they have so much potential
 

Otaku

The wise fool?
Member
I'm liking these criticisms tbh.

Yay!

Thing is the gimmicks will settle post-rotation this year, since EX and BREAK will be gone from rotation.

Some of us play Expanded. ;)

Lumping them with regular GX's takes away how special UB's actually are.
Maybe some of the mechanics I came up with were a little complicated, but It's still better than being shunned aside and not made the main focus, they're so badly used I think, they're treated like Dark/Light/Team [X] Pokémon, but they have so much potential

Different strokes, then; I like that they took a page from the Team Plasma playbook; Ultra Beasts are their own thing, but through a simple designation mechanic plus any cards printed that reference Ultra Beasts.

Oh, and just to be clear, being an Ultra Beast is separate from being a Pokémon-GX; I don't recall if they've released yet in English but we've seen some non-Pokémon-GX Ultra Beasts revealed among the Japanese cards.
 

gumball51321

*thumbs up*
Member
Ultra Space might just be a new stadium. If I guessed, it might be something like
"Pokemon knocked out by Ultra Beast Pokemon go to the lost zone. Discard all cards attached to Pokemon knocked out in this way"
Either that or "Ultra Beast Pokemon do 10/20 more damage to Pokemon -EX and Pokemon -GX."
 

PMJ

happy thoughts
Forum Head
Articles Head
Elite Member
Advanced Member
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Making Ultra Beast a designation rather than its own specific, unique mechanic was a good idea. The last thing we need is more unique Pokemon types.
 
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