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Standard Still Trying to Fix Beast Box

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by Wechselbalg, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Wechselbalg

    Member

    I realised the reason why Beast Box is not that popular in the current competitive meta is because people were mostly trying to build it with 1 basic energy and Naga+the UB-GX that matches the chosen basic energy type. However, due to the fact that Naga is a single energy attacker and that some of the non-GX UBs can also contribute for a single energy I think Beast Box should be built with a bit more freedom and not the "min-maxing" mindset that the usual competitive deck should follow.

    When building Beast Box, you also have to take into consideration which UBs have the most firepower while also being a partner that make up for Naga's bad qualities. For example, right now Buzz is still the best UB, but pairing it with Naga is not that good of an idea, as both are weak to psychic in a meta where Dawn Wings suddenly went "from zero to hero".

    Dusk Mane is an ok partner, but you can't just put in a 4-3 Naga line and 3-1 Dusk Mane-GX/baby split and call it a day, as Dusk Mane's attack costs way too much and also requires you to discard 3 energy, and with the condition of Beast Ring, it is impossible to consistently chain KOs with Dusk Mane with just Beast Ring as energy acceleration.

    So, the list I propose is the following:
    1 Buzzwole
    2 Dusk Mane Necrozma PR-SM
    1 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX
    1 Kartana-GX
    1 Dawn Wings Necrozma-GX
    4 Poipole
    3 Naganadel-GX
    1 Tapu Lele-GX

    4 Ultra Ball
    3 N
    2 Super Rod
    3 Professor Sycamore
    4 Cynthia
    4 Weakness Policy
    3 Guzma
    4 Float Stone
    4 Ultra Space
    3 Beast Ring

    1 Beast Energy
    3 Fighting Energy
    8 Metal Energy


    I actually don't play a Lele in my current list and put in 1 Ultra Recon Squad instead, but I figured I'd already get roasted for including Weakness Policy - with Ultra Recon being on the list too it would have been too much :p The reason I personally don't want to play a Lele is simple - I don't want to bench anything else other than UBs. I figured that, in order to avoid bricking on turn 1, two Leles are better anyway, which is just too much for this deck and instead I tried to put in as many draw supporters as possible. But of course you can always play the 1 Lele.

    Weakness Policy: Naga needs to be the main attacker, period. Otherwise Beast Box will not work as you can only rely on Beast Ring to accelerate energy. You will most likely only use Dusk Mane-GX once (or twice if you're lucky) to take a KO. However, most of the time Naga can't take any OHKOes by itself (only exception is Choice Band+Beast Energy on less than 190 HP GXes) and Dawn Wings with Malamar demolishes it with little to no effort. In order to try and mitigate this problem I decided to include Weakness Policy instead of Choice Band, since you will be relying on baby Dusk Mane to fix the numbers for Naga anyway and Dusk Mane-GX doesn't need Choice Band most of the time to get a KO.

    Why not play Buzzwole and only basic fighting energy if I'm already playing Weakness Policy anyway? Because there's no room for Elixirs, and without Diancie, Choice Band and Strong Energy, Buzzwole suddenly isn't the absolute monster it usually is.

    Baby Buzz is too good to pass up, that's why I made a 8 metal/3 fighting energy split, but I guess you can also go 9/2. It OHKOes Zoroark and safeguarders and in every other case 120 for 1 basic energy from a 130 HP 1 prize attacker is never a bad thing. When the new Celesteela gets released I will definitely need to find room for 1 copy. (But not more as it is also a very bad starter and I want to decrease my chances of starting with anything else other than Poipole or baby Dusk Mane. Plus its attack cost is way too high if the condition isn't met.)

    2 Super Rods because you need to be able to recover after a Parallel City or two.

    I think 4 copies of Ultra Space are needed, as you only have 4 Ultra Balls, can't afford to use Brigette and you can only draw cards with supporters. Therefore, being able to search out 1-2 (Ultra Ball+Space) UB every turn is very important. You also need to counter Parallel City.

    As long as Float Stone is in the format, I think Dawn Wings is a no-brainer for any Beast Box build. Kartana's use is obvious, but if you were able to get by without having to use Dusk Mane for the GX attack, you can also use Blade-GX to close games, as you're mainly playing metal energy.

    Thanks a lot for reading and feel free to share your thoughts about the idea of the list!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018


  2. Wechselbalg

    Member

    BUMP!

    I updated the list, if anyone's interested, and decided to go the full basic metal energy route instead. I realised that Ultra Space is a red herring in the current meta (took me long enough) and is bad as it only provides advantage to Buzz and Malamar decks while not providing you with anything that you cannot achieve with other trainer cards that don't help your opponent. Also, instead of constantly having to worry about being paralleled, I decided to add two copies of it to the list. I added Mysterious Treasure and Nest Ball to the list as additional search cards instead of U. Space. I don't play any Field Blowers because there are only two Pokemon with abilities in the deck and if Garbotoxin is online I can still switch with Guzma.
    I also removed the Kartana for a second Dusk Mane-GX because it was way too situational and is completeley useless without Ultra Space anyway. The deck runs pretty well and I do think it's mostly because of the inclusion of Parallel City. I kept the policies though because Dawn Wings is just too strong against Naganadel and I still don't think that Choice Band matters that much for this deck.

    2 Dusk Mane Necrozma PR-SM
    2 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX
    1 Dawn Wings Necrozma-GX
    4 Poipole
    3 Naganadel-GX
    1 Tapu Lele-GX

    4 Professor Sycamore
    4 Mysterious Treasure
    4 Ultra Ball
    2 N
    1 Super Rod
    2 Nest Ball
    4 Cynthia
    4 Weakness Policy
    3 Guzma
    2 Parallel City
    3 Float Stone
    3 Beast Ring

    1 Beast Energy
    10 Metal Energy
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. TuxedoBlack Old School Player
    TuxedoBlack

    Member

    Interesting list. Your detailed thoughts are appreciated.

    I too had added Naganadel GX to my "build and Test" list awhile ago. My interest stems from a long history and experience of utilizing 1-energy attachment Pokémon. So, following are just a few thoughts for your consideration:

    Given that you plan to leverage 1-energy attachment Pokémon, why not also incorporate a few Max Potion in order to "tank" your main attacker, Naganadel GX? Along this same "tanking" concept, why no Bodybuilding Dumbbells? No doubt the Weakness Policy can potentially provide an advantage in certain matchups and the investment of a 4 count for this particular Tool is probably necessary. However, a Max Potion + Bodybuilding Dumbbells combo could also be a more viable option.

    Why no Mt. Coronet which would facilitate retrieving discarded Metal energy. I fully understand the value of Parallel City, but, IMO, Mt. Coronet should be a strong consideration too in this case.

    Your card-draw engine consisting of 4 Cynthia, 2 N and 4 Professor Sycamore seems a bit excessive, even with 1 Tapu Lele GX. Have you considered utilizing a few Professor Kukui?

    With 4 Mysterious Treasure and 4 Ultra Ball, are the 2 Nest Ball really that helpful, especially with the current 10 card-draw Supporters?
    Suggested deck changes for your consideration:

    -1 Cynthia
    -3 Float Stone
    -2 Nest Ball
    -2 Professor Sycamore
    -4 Weakness Policy

    +3 Bodybuilding Dumbbells
    +1 Escape Rope - can't be field Blower'd away
    +1 Guzma - IMO, this count should be max'ed-out; it's that good
    +2 Professor Kukui
    +2 Max Potion (or 1/1 split with Acerola)
    +3 Mt. Coronet

    I hope you find these comments helpful.



     
  4. Wechselbalg

    Member

    Thanks for your input TuxedoBlack!

    The Dumbbells+Max Potion combo is something I might try in the future, as I included Weakness Policy only to be able to take a hit from Dawn Wings or regular Necrozma. While the Dumbbells don't help against Necrozma, they still allow Naganadel to tank a Dark Flash and, unlike Weakness Policy, Dumbbells could also be useful in other MUs.

    However, I'm definitely not going to swap Parallel City for anything else. I think in the current meta, if your deck can afford to run Parallel City, you should be playing this over any other stadium, especially if you need to keep your bench full in order to be able to apply pressure to the opponent. I also don't see how Mt. Coronet would help this deck, as you can only attach 1 energy manually per turn and the rest of the acceleration comes from Beast Ring. I also don't think that swapping 3 Float Stones for 1 Escape Rope is a good idea. Sure, it can't be blowered away, but 1 copy is unreliable, even if you only need to use Invasion to switch your active once or twice during a match. However, 2 copies are just too many.
    Kukui is a bad choice imo if you have no means to get it back from your discard, since if you get it as your only early draw supporter while you're still trying to set up you pretty much lose. It's one of those awkward situations again where running only 1 is unreliable with no VS Seeker or Puzzles, and 2 copies are too many. Same goes for Acerola in a meta where hitting for huge numbers is not an issue. I might try swapping another Cynthia or a Sycamore for a 4th copy of Guzma though, just to make sure that I have at least 1 copy left in the deck for late game.

    The Nest Balls are to get out the Dusk Manes or even a Poipole without having to discard anything, but if I try the Dumbbells version I will swap them for the two copies of Max Potion.

    I run an excessive amount of draw supporters in this deck because if I can, I want to avoid benching Lele, as it decreases Naga's damage output and otherwise the deck has no options to get ahead. (And I'm definitely not going to use Oranguru.) Just because I have this many draw supporters doesn't mean that I plan to use every single one in a match - they're there in order to ensure that I don't brick while I'm still setting up or if I get Ned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  5. Dark Espeon Dark Avatar
    Dark Espeon

    Member

    Hi Wechselbalg,

    Nice deck. I am not sure about Beast Box without the added benefits of some of the metal non-GX attackers. In this list I would consider these modifications:

    - 4 Mysterious Treasure (cannto search for the metal part of this deck)
    + 1 Beast Ring (only reliable mean to fuel Dusk Mane Necrozma GX)
    + 2 Nest Ball (additional search without discard)
    + 1 Guzma (You will need four of them)

    Not a fan of weakness policy but you specifically stated to retain it in the list. Personally I believ the deck will become much better with Stakataka GX and Celesteela. These cards provide the deck with two ohko options and with these cards added to the list I would also include Choice Band back into this deck.
     
  6. Wechselbalg

    Member

    Yeah, Weakness Policy is bad, but I could not think of anything better to stop Dawn Wings from just ripping through the whole deck. (Except for Dusk Mane, but that is not the main attacker.)

    I'm a bit cautious with too many Beast Rings as I really hate it when they clog up my early game hand, but I might try the list with 4 copies. The reason I don't want to swap all of the Treasures for Nest Balls is because Treasure also grabs Naganadel and Poipole in addition to Dawn Wings, and these are the ones you want to get out as soon as possible. (Except maybe for Dawn Wings.) You pretty much only need Dusk Mane-GX when you can Beast Ring to it.

    I still don't really believe that Stakataka will contribute much to the deck but I am looking forward to the new Celesteela.
     

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