Finished Mafia XLVI - Salem Forces ~ ENDGAME

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NinjaPenguin said:
Wynaut Quaking?
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Because you've got more votes and we need a trial.
Mariano11887 said:
The only thing I am a little more convinced is Jabber being a Coven. I am unable to analyze if he is the Necromancer or the Poisoner and the consequences of lynching one or the other. We need to lynch a Coven, and he is the most coven-like (apologies of the term doesn't exist) of the 3 persons metioned in this post. ##VOTE: Jabberwock
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Mariano I swear I've said this before. You haven't actually told me––or anyone––why I'm "coven-like". Come up with a case––even just a few points––and I'll gladly tell you why you're wrong. But if you can't explain what makes you think I'm scummy, then that's just another form of tunnel vision.
quakingpunch73 said:
This is because Jabber is NP's Coven Buddy, like I've been affirming for a while. I do feel more confident about Jabber being Coven compared to NP right now, so ##Vote: Jabberwock
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Oh goody, a wagon. C'mon quaking. Same goes for you––tell me why you think I'm scummy and I'll be quite happy to show you why your points are invalid.
quakingpunch73 said:
I'm sorry, but Mariano can't be 100% cleared, not unless Lorde confirms that he is Doctor. I've said it on page 19 that there's a 95% chance that he's town and I still stand by that claim, but he's still not 100% cleared and probably won't be. There's still a chance, however small, that he is Coven or Jugg, and not seeing that could screw over the town, like it did in Dazzling Star. Now stop twisting my words and look at the bigger picture.
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@NinjaPenguin if you can't see this, then you have no right to tell Mariano that he's tunneling.
 
Jabberwock said:
@NinjaPenguin if you can't see this, then you have no right to tell Mariano that he's tunneling.
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There's nothing else that explains the lack of both kills, especially the Juggernaut's, which can only be stopped by Doctor, BG, Guardian Angel, or Crusader. Crusader would have killed somebody, GA would be revealed in the day update, and BG would end in two people dead. The only explanation (besides Doctor) is that Jugg didn't kill and Mariano has Basic Defense/nobody killed. Which would mean he's some anti-town we don't know of yet or a Coven/Jugg doing a play that assumes the other faction won't kill. Both are incredibly doubtful imo.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
Who the heck designs a safeclaim with bussing in mind?
That may be safe for you, but the fact you'd have to claim something dooming your teammate isn't safe. Let alone the fact that everyone would ask "why didn't you claim this earlier?"
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From my end, I've seen some incredibly bizarre hosting choices from Lorde's part in this game, such as half of the game not being town aligned and a player recieving a safeclaim that is the role of another player. Who is to say that there aren't a few more of those that most players aren't aware of?
Jabberwock said:
Oh goody, a wagon. C'mon quaking. Same goes for you––tell me why you think I'm scummy and I'll be quite happy to show you why your points are invalid.
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Like you said earlier in the post, we need a trial to happen this late into the day. I'm fairly certain that you're scum for two reasons: claim and process of elimination.
First, you claimed vigilante, a role that is unprovable until it is used to kill someone, commonly claimed by evil roles, and a role which has no reason to exist in a set-up where there are 4 other confirmed killing roles in place.
Then, there's the fact that I know that I'm the Surv, scattered is 100% confirmed town from his ability, Mariano is 95% town from his role and ability, and morda is likely Jugg imo due to the fact that Jugg has no town equivalent so Surv is a good safeclaim for them, and indies usually tend to blend into the background in my experience, which morda fits to the T. This leaves you and NP as the likely Coven. I feel more confident with a vote on you than a vote on NP because his claim holding up, even though it's easy to fake, which puts little doubt into my mind. This means that you are the most likely coven to me.
 
Jabberwock said:
Mariano I swear I've said this before. You haven't actually told me––or anyone––why I'm "coven-like". Come up with a case––even just a few points––and I'll gladly tell you why you're wrong. But if you can't explain what makes you think I'm scummy, then that's just another form of tunnel vision.
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Nowadays, it's more because process of elimination. Scattered is town, I am Town, we all agree Morda is Jugg, one of the Coven spots is being disputed between NP and Quaking, so you take the remaining Coven spot. There are no other players.
 
TBH, the only players who have any need to do any scumhunting are Mariano and scattered. We all know from our POV that all the other players are almost surely the Jugg and Coven, and all we can really do is try to decide who is which role and I guess try to convince you two. Which has been all I'm trying to go, same sorta goes for Morda, and Jabber and Quaking are still living in this strange fantasy that we should be doing something besides that.

That's why my efforts are on showing all you guys how Quaking is Necro and not Poisoner or Jugg. That's all I can do. And that's why multiball endgames are often so annoying.
I'm also gonna point out that I highly dislike how every player is sheeping on all my work to get the read that morda is Jugg and then is saying I'm doing something not useful. I'm trying to help the best I can, and from how you guys talk about morda, at least I've somewhat succeeded on my job.

I can understand why you guys want to hang Jabber; it's the safest move for you and I respect that. I'm just worried that by leaving a Necro alive who is now super likely to hit me with that shot, we'll drop another game where I've figured everything out. And I hate that.

So I'd post something rebutting how everything in Quaking's post uses logic that's super flimsy, but it unfortunately all works out from his POV. And I really can't say anything against it besides that from my POV, it's all complete rubbish. It's just the way it is. And that's why this endgame is just so strange.

Woo thanks for reading this rant I guess lol. Just wanted to tell you guys how I'm feeling. :D

P.S. And before you ask "why is Quaking voting Jabber then?", it's because he knows he can still win this game if he distances himself from Jabber enough that Morda will go after me (thinking that I'm the Coven, not Quaking), and then he can just kill Morda and win.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
I'm just worried that by leaving a Necro alive who is now super likely to hit me with that shot
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Shoot, I meant to drop this after I changed my mind trying to reason through why that bus was going on. Disregard this; Quaking is going for that plan I wrote in that P.S. I'm pretty sure.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
TBH, the only players who have any need to do any scumhunting are Mariano and scattered. We all know from our POV that all the other players are almost surely the Jugg and Coven, and all we can really do is try to decide who is which role and I guess try to convince you two. Which has been all I'm trying to go, same sorta goes for Morda, and Jabber and Quaking are still living in this strange fantasy that we should be doing something besides that.

That's why my efforts are on showing all you guys how Quaking is Necro and not Poisoner or Jugg. That's all I can do. And that's why multiball endgames are often so annoying.
I'm also gonna point out that I highly dislike how every player is sheeping on all my work to get the read that morda is Jugg and then is saying I'm doing something not useful. I'm trying to help the best I can, and from how you guys talk about morda, at least I've somewhat succeeded on my job.

I can understand why you guys want to hang Jabber; it's the safest move for you and I respect that. I'm just worried that by leaving a Necro alive who is now super likely to hit me with that shot, we'll drop another game where I've figured everything out. And I hate that.

So I'd post something rebutting how everything in Quaking's post uses logic that's super flimsy, but it unfortunately all works out from his POV. And I really can't say anything against it besides that from my POV, it's all complete rubbish. It's just the way it is. And that's why this endgame is just so strange.

Woo thanks for reading this rant I guess lol. Just wanted to tell you guys how I'm feeling. :D

P.S. And before you ask "why is Quaking voting Jabber then?", it's because he knows he can still win this game if he distances himself from Jabber enough that Morda will go after me (thinking that I'm the Coven, not Quaking), and then he can just kill Morda and win.
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Do you have anything to add in this post that isn't AtE? Almost everything in this post is unnecessary. By posting my thoughts on the players in this game and rebutting your points, I'm conveying that my thoughts to the other players and therefore, trying to convince them who to lynch. This post has so many examples of scummy AtE in it, from the "I can't do anything else" to "I told you so!!!" to the passive-aggressive smiley face at the end of the post. If you can't contribute meaningfully at the moment, then don't clog up the thread with an AtE-fest that adds little to the conversation.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
There's nothing else that explains the lack of both kills, especially the Juggernaut's, which can only be stopped by Doctor, BG, Guardian Angel, or Crusader. Crusader would have killed somebody, GA would be revealed in the day update, and BG would end in two people dead. The only explanation (besides Doctor) is that Jugg didn't kill and Mariano has Basic Defense/nobody killed. Which would mean he's some anti-town we don't know of yet or a Coven/Jugg doing a play that assumes the other faction won't kill. Both are incredibly doubtful imo.
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I can accept Occam's Razor as reasoning for your reads, but Mariano's not confotown. There are plenty of reasons––however far-fetched––why Mariano could have survived a kill or two in this game. Idk what any of those roles do, but I think it's completely fair to say that this game deviates a fair bit from ToS canon.
quakingpunch73 said:
First, you claimed vigilante, a role that is unprovable until it is used to kill someone, commonly claimed by evil roles, and a role which has no reason to exist in a set-up where there are 4 other confirmed killing roles in place.
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A'ight fine, you wanna play the WIFOM game? If Lorde wants safeclaims to be as safe as possible, then why would she make a safeclaim out of what's apparently the scummiest role in the game? You can't have that both ways.
Then, there's the fact that I know that I'm the Surv, scattered is 100% confirmed town from his ability, Mariano is 95% town from his role and ability, and morda is likely Jugg imo due to the fact that Jugg has no town equivalent so Surv is a good safeclaim for them, and indies usually tend to blend into the background in my experience, which morda fits to the T. This leaves you and NP as the likely Coven. I feel more confident with a vote on you than a vote on NP because his claim holding up, even though it's easy to fake, which puts little doubt into my mind. This means that you are the most likely coven to me.
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Okay so I'll assume for a moment that you are in fact survivor, 'cause if you're coven/jugg there's literally no point to the rest of this.

The whole bit about survivor being a good safeclaim for a juggernaut? That's the same as the WIFOM thing about me being vig; you gotta stop basing your reads on the safeclaims Lorde would and wouldn't assign, especially since you've already noted that Lorde has been making an effort to provide anti-town with the safest possible claims.

IDR mord ever being an indie before this, so I don't believe you can base a read on him off any kind of meta. Simple cause-and-effect; indies usually tend to blend into the background, sure, but mord does that as town or as scum as well iirc.

Or you just really don't want to bus your scumbuddy NP. That's a distinct possibility as well.
Mariano11887 said:
Nowadays, it's more because process of elimination. Scattered is town, I am Town, we all agree Morda is Jugg, one of the Coven spots is being disputed between NP and Quaking, so you take the remaining Coven spot. There are no other players.
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You're convinced that there's no way both NP and quaking are coven? Rn that's where I'm expecting coven to be; NP's scum meta involves a ton of bussing (like we saw last game, if you wanna read through that) and quaking is weirdly hesitant to vote him.
 
Day 4, Vote-Count #3​

- All votes are in chronological order.
- The players being voted are in alphabetical order.
- The player with the most votes is tagged.
- The majority to put on trial is 4.
- There have been no trials yet today, meaning you have 3 trials left.

@Jabberwock (2): Mariano11887, quakingpunch73. T-2
mordacazir (0): quakingpunch73, Jabberwock, NinjaPenguin.

@NinjaPenguin (2): Mariano11887, mordacazir, Jabberwock. T-2
quakingpunch73 (1): NinjaPenguin.

Reminder, the deadline is Wednesday December 6, 2017 at 7AM EST, or about 51 hours from now.
 
Jabberwock said:
You're convinced that there's no way both NP and quaking are coven? Rn that's where I'm expecting coven to be; NP's scum meta involves a ton of bussing (like we saw last game, if you wanna read through that) and quaking is weirdly hesitant to vote him.
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I'm not convinced of anything that is not officially confirmed by Lorde, that's something I learned from this game, a bit late though. It's logical that you expect coven to be NP and Quaking because any other option would make you be seen as Coven.

@Lord o da rings I don't know if it matters or it is allowed, but Gekki liked last Quakings's post.
 
quakingpunch73 said:
Do you have anything to add in this post that isn't AtE? Almost everything in this post is unnecessary. By posting my thoughts on the players in this game and rebutting your points, I'm conveying that my thoughts to the other players and therefore, trying to convince them who to lynch. This post has so many examples of scummy AtE in it, from the "I can't do anything else" to "I told you so!!!" to the passive-aggressive smiley face at the end of the post. If you can't contribute meaningfully at the moment, then don't clog up the thread with an AtE-fest that adds little to the conversation.
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@That Bolded Part Then why was me trying to show how you could be scum useless. When the arguments go your way, you're cool. When they don't, you try to stop them.
In fact I did have something to say. Not only did I say that you and Jabber were not focusing on trying to do what I consider to be the only task you can, I helped myself brainstorm why you're bussing Jabber.
The AtE is mixed in because it's my honest thoughts, but you're taking those "scummy examples" as stuff that honestly isn't that scummy. You honestly can't do anything else in this game and if you want to make Camo's simley face case, go ahead I guess? And "I told you so!!!" is twisting my words and honestly, a bit rude.
But if we stop and think for a moment, are either of our arguments actually being listened to? The players talking the least are the ones that we see as not in contention for Coven, who have to actually stop and decide which one of us should be lynched. So let's give them (particularly scattered and morda) the time to catch up, so we can actually get thoughts from the people whose thoughts aren't actually forced to be set in stone by the situation we're in.
 
Mariano11887 said:
I'm not convinced of anything that is not officially confirmed by Lorde, that's something I learned from this game, a bit late though. It's logical that you expect coven to be NP and Quaking because any other option would make you be seen as Coven.
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By that logic you can write off NP, quaking and me all three as scum.

NinjaPenguin said:
But if we stop and think for a moment, are either of our arguments actually being listened to? The players talking the least are the ones that we see as not in contention for Coven, who have to actually stop and decide which one of us should be lynched. So let's give them (particularly scattered and morda) the time to catch up, so we can actually get thoughts from the people whose thoughts aren't actually forced to be set in stone by the situation we're in.
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Trying to limit discussion is scummy. End of story. I agree that scattered and mord need to catch up, but that's on them.
 
Jabberwock said:
By that logic you can write off NP, quaking and me all three as scum.
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By my logic, NP will try to mark Quaking and you as Coven, as well as Quaking will try to do it with NP and you. And that is what's happening. Between you 3 there are 2 Covens.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
Then why was me trying to show how you could be scum useless.
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I'm sorry, but where in the post did you try to show that we could be scum by presenting new information?
NinjaPenguin said:
And "I told you so!!!" is twisting my words and honestly, a bit rude.
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How is this twisting your words? You said a variation of "I told you so!" here:
NinjaPenguin said:
we'll drop another game where I've figured everything out. And I hate that.
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@Jabberwock, like I said earlier, Lorde has made strange hosting decisions this game FMPOV, like having half the game not be aligned with the town. The main reason morda is Jugg imo is due to not counterclaiming earlier when I claimed survivor which any normal surv would have done in that situation.

@scattered mind
@mordacazir
@Mariano11887

We have a little over 36 hours to make a decision. Your thoughts are extremely valued in this discussion, and the only way someone can get on trial is with your help. Please read up and post your thoughts, and potentially a vote (in scattered's case) ASAP.
 
Day 4, Vote-Count #4​

- All votes are in chronological order.
- The players being voted are in alphabetical order.
- The player with the most votes is tagged.
- The majority to put on trial is 4.
- There have been no trials yet today, meaning you have 3 trials left.

@Jabberwock (2): Mariano11887, quakingpunch73. T-2
mordacazir (0): quakingpunch73, Jabberwock, NinjaPenguin.

@NinjaPenguin (2): Mariano11887, mordacazir, Jabberwock. T-2
quakingpunch73 (1): NinjaPenguin.

Reminder, the deadline is tomorrow at 7AM EST, slightly under 24 hours from now. It's now or never for a trial!
 
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