Discussion Made-up Pokémon Types

[Mitja]

Ever since GS added Dark and Steel, most of us have probably at some point entertained the idea of "what if ____ was added as a type?"



And for quite a while, that topic has been slipping into the darkness, since it took a long time for GF to actually decide to add another new type, Fairy, in Gen 6.



One of the more common suggestions we've kept seeing throughout the generations is a "Light" type.

And I think that was one of the reasons why the addition of Fairy was quite exciting to watch, and highly surprised so many people. The speculation leading up to it was very diverse, ranging from people saying it makes no sense (or perhaps still thinking it's dumb today) to others embracing it for not being so bland and simple (I'd consider myself very much in the latter end of the spectrum).

Some did see Fairy as what they thought of as a Light type but with a unique twist and flavor added to it that it actually made it interesting enough to justify the addition.

Anyhow..

I'd be interested in sharing my own "top 5" fanmade types that I've been thinking about lately, hearing your ideas, as well as maybe get a discussion going on the following questions:

1. What makes a new type plausible, or worth adding? Or what makes it a terrible choice? (concept, effect on type chart, potential old candidates)
2. When a new type is added, how many old Pokémon getting retconned would be acceptable? (is it okay to change previous types, or only if it replaces Normal?) And if it would require a lot of retcons, would that mean the type is therefore not plausible?
3. How many types are too many? 18? 20? 30? Do we even ever want more...or would anyone actually prefer if GF reduced the number of types?
4. What about the current 18 types, are any of them poorly thought through? Redundant? Underused or not yet living up to their potential? Or perhaps just mis-named in context of what their actual concept seems to be?

 

[Mitja]

1. The first thought is probably something along the lines of: it has to be unique, bring something to the table that the other types don't cover yet. But while a good general idea, I would argue that this isn't necessarily a requirement for a good type.

For example, there could be some sub-theme that seems to be covered by one or more types already, but it is far enough from the core concept of the actual type, that it may be worthwhile "splitting" that aspect off of the original type to make something separate.

Of course new additions should add more balance to the type chart if possible, rather than make it even more chaotic. Similarly, no new type should be added simply for the sake of balancing the type chart, if the concept itself isn't appropriate.

Another indication of an implausible type is how it fares when retconning of old Pokémon is considered (which also takes me to answering #2)
-if there is no old Pokémon that would make obvious candidates to represent the new type, it would mean that the type would have to rely very heavily on introducing A LOT of new pokemon for itself to catch up with the rest. Also, just generally, if there isn't any candidates to be found in over 800 unique monster designs, the type is probably too radical and simply doesn't fit with the rest of the franchise. I could only see such a type working if it had some story-explanation similar to Mega evolutions...like say if some big event caused Pokémon to mutate and gain a "Mutant" type that gave them new powers they didn't have before... but personally that sounds more like a one-time addition akin to "shadow pokemon" in Colosseum/XD rather than a full permanent new type.
-if there is too many "obvious" retcons, but most of the candidates already had dual types from before. That would "change" aspects of old Pokémon rather than just adding something new. It might be acceptable if there was a very small number of special cases where you would have a dilemma about retconning a Pokémon (for example if there was a pokemon that was very clearly an insect, and on fire, but also was the most obvious candidate for the new type, so you wouldn't know which type to replace), but if it otherwise seemed to be easy to implement.

I think Fairy did very well in that regard. It was easy to add to a few single-type Pokémon, adding a new flavor to them without taking away from their previous type, and the only cases where it actually replaced a type, it was merely replacing Normal in its "default-type" role.

3. We started with 15 already, so I say bring them. A handful more wouldn't suddenly make it an absurd number that crosses some line. Of course it means learning about the new types and getting used to them and their retcons...but isn't that a good thing? Personally it takes me back to the beginning, when EVERY type was new to me. Besides, anyone who just joins the franchise has to learn about them anyway, and 3 more or less isn't what's going to scare them away.

4. I do feel like several of the current types are not getting the core ideas across with the names, but for most of them I can also see why the name was chosen.
Let's take Ice as an example. If you take the name literally, you would think it's exclusively about ice. Frozen water. It's actually more specifically about cold, low, freezing temperatures. But Ice is a simple word that feels more "elemental", so that's what they went with.

There is also things like "Ghost"-types not being literally dead Pokémon (we do battle real Pokémon ghosts like the Marowak in Lavender), but merely abnormal, sometimes gaseous creatures, that are often associated with spirits and morbid as well as scary themes, have an elemental association with shadows and darkness, night-time and show phasing abilities. In other words, they are most of the time just ghost-like creatures, but still only on the edge towards actually being ghosts.

Another would be Grass (I mean, clearly it's not just about grass, it's about plants in general), Bug (it includes all sorts of insects as well as arachnids etc. but it's a reference to bug-collecting and possibly also a nod to the kamen-rider superheroes popular in Japan etc..), Rock (Mineral would be more accurate for example, but sometimes it's not even about literal rocks, but just having sturdy bodies/armor) etc.

But the #1 most misleading type is clearly the Dark type.
The name makes it seem like an elemental darkness-related type (Ghost is actually closer to that), but it's actually an intentional mistranslation, since it's literally called the Evil type in japanese. And it doesn't take much research to notice that that would be much closer to what the type is really about: dirty tricks, mean moves, sneaky tactics.. playing unfairly.

I think this mistranslation is also one of the biggest reason why people come up with the "Light" type so often, because they want to complete a type duo that they aren't aware doesn't need completing (since with the original name, one can think of Fighting or Psychic as counterparts for example).

Sorry if it seems stupid for me to be replying to myself in my own thread XDDD (is it me or is the forum kind of quiet in the recent months?)

 

[Mitja]

So I'll start with something not too radical, one of the more obvious and common suggestions: a Sound type.



And it's an obvious one because:
-sound is already a move mechanic in-game (a move can be a sound move, which makes it ignore Substitute and not deal any damage to users of the Soundproof ability)
-most sound-based moves right now are Normal type anyway
-there has been a Pokémon every now and then that was themed around sound.



Turns out the potential selection of retcons is expectedly small, but nonetheless quite diverse, I'd say it would have a better start than Fairy even (in other words, without having to add 5+ generic Sound-families)

A handful compromises were made however. Most notably,
-Seismitoad losing its Ground type, which didn't seem wrong considering it learns almost no Ground moves on its own, and all its association with ground comes from causing tremors with sound waves to begin with. (if GF ever start making more moves than "Flying Press" to be dual typed, it'd be simple to make Earthquake both Ground and Sound type)
-Kommo-o losing its Fighting type. Also merely learns a single move with a Heart scale, while its signature move Clanging Scales is a sound move.
-Noivern losing Dragon, and Flying shifting to secondary role. Since it is currently Flying/Dragon (rather than Dragon/Flying), Dragon seems to be the less important type for its concept, but with the introduction of Sound, that would clearly be even THE prominent type for a Pokémon that is categorized as "the sound wave Pokémon".

 

[Mitja]

Next up is a type that is less clearly defined and is usually met with immediate criticism along the lines of "Flying exists already", but is a personal favourite of mine: a Wind type.

While it is indeed true that Flying currently covers any unflavored wind-concepts, there is also plenty of moves and some Pokémon that are associated with Wind but are not in any way related to the Flying type (Leaf Storm, Fire Spin, Whirlpool, Blizzard, Ominous/Silver/Fairy wind, etc. - and Shiftry comes to mind)

The main but minor reason why the idea of a Wind type has grown on me is this:

The types of this trio have bothered me since they were introduced. Yes, technically, they all have a secondary shared Flying type, and Tornaduses distinguishing "elemental" type just happens to also be Flying, which makes it a pure Flying type, but it just doesn't look right ;O;

Anyhow, in addition to the elemental more literal wind-aspect of it, the Wind type as I envision it would also include any strong association with agility/speed (hence also including Pokémon like Arcanine, Dodrio, Ninjask..), as well as using means of affecting the opponent at a distance, either by spreading spores/harmful particles via air or gases etc. (hence Weezing, Aromatisse, some of the butterflies/moths). Moves would include things like Gust, Extremespeed, Hurricane, Razor Wind, Air Slash, Smokescreen, Defog etc, while also having the gimmick of there being a diverse selection of dual-typed moves (like the examples I listed above).



Some of the prime retcon examples would of course include Tornadus

But also my favourite new Wind types, the beast trio

Because they are the perfect example of retcons to "my" version of the Wind type that had absolutely nothing to do with the Flying type before.
They're fast land-dwelling creatures, but essentially have storm-clouds on their backs.
Also, something interesting now happens in their existing relations to other legendaries:


It also finally fixes the ingenious type combination of Gyarados
who would then actually have its type reflect its association with storms.

One more thing to note about this type is that the Pokémon themselves don't exclusively have to be either fast or capable of creating storms. Just being lightweight and comfortable drifting on air currents could count as a trait deserving of the Wind type.


I had a single big dilemma however:

Shiftry. It's tengu the japanese wind demon. I settled on keeping Grass rather than Dark, simply due to the evoluton method involving a Leaf Stone.. although if that was retconned to a Dusk Stone, one could argue that dropping the Grass type would be more appropriate (keeping the Dark type that Nuzleaf only just gained beforehand) by pointing at some of the Pokémon that have plants as part of their design but are not themselves Grass types (Florges, Comfey).


As for concerns about the Flying type ala "wouldn't Wind just steal most of the Pokémon from the Flying type?", here is a picture to show that the Flying type would still be very alive post-retcon:

 

[Scattered mind]

There are 3 types of Pokemon types imo: elements (including subjects of nature like rock, ice), mystical creatures (dragon, fairy, ghosts) and abilities (to fight, to use psychic powers, to fly)

So you can go in many different ways-

Mystical creatures: I picked those who are versatile in most general

Demon
Troll
Serpent
Alien
Angel

Abilities:

Dance
Healer

Elements:

Digital?
Light
Gas

Also there is bug type.. that really doesn't fit anywhere. It's like a really big animal kind, so maybe throw there Fish type?

So yeah these are what I came up with. I'll think about more details behind some of them later, but feel free to use these to speculate/invent/whatever for this discussion.

btw: I didn't talk about Normal type, but who cares about that one, right?

 

[Mitja]

Heya

There are 3 types of Pokemon types imo: elements (including subjects of nature like rock, ice), mystical creatures (dragon, fairy, ghosts) and abilities (to fight, to use psychic powers, to fly)

I have a similar system actually (that I've changed like 4 times by now, this is the one I've been satisfied with for the longest time):


Species-types in mine are types that can relate to what kind of creature the Pokémon is, or can be worn as an armor.
And I see Ground foremost as one of the "abilities", like a counterpart to Flying. Not about literal earth, but just the concept of a firm ground that you can dig and disturb to cause damage due to the fact that your opponent is likely stuck on the ground as well.
That viewpoint also makes Ground and Rock more distinct, which helps a lot as an analogy for Flying VS Wind, where the former is also an ability, while the latter is more the actual element.

Demon
Troll
Serpent
Alien
Angel

Dance
Healer

Digital?
Light
Gas

Troll/Demon - could you find some examples out of the existing 802 Pokémon that would somewhat represent the essence of these types? I'm having a hard time thinking of any. Demon specifically sounds to me like it would be what Ghost is (if you just ignore the name ghost), morbid shady creatures... which reminds me about Sableye, probably the closest to a candidate fro Demon? Perhaps the Deino line swapping out the Dark part?

Serpent - while I can see some of the snake-like Pokémon (Arbok/Serperior/Milotic) as easy implementation, I also imagine it would clash with Dragon, since Dragon is a "wider" mythical creature type that encompasses seprents to some degree. I guess my point is, Dragon is already one of the less represented types, and getting any Pokémon that would qualify for a Serpent type (which would be an even smaller group) would still not make Dragon more than uncommon. An analogy I can think of is if there was an arachnid type added (which would just take the few spiders we have from Bug, and possibly include some crabs and scorpions, and it would still be a bigger group than Serpent). One dilemma case I see for retconning would be Onix/Steelix.
Further type ideas along those lines that "Serpent" made me think of are: Slug, Lizard/Reptile, Mammal, Dino, Beast..

Alien - I have something coming up in the next post that is relevant to this one

Angel - good and not necessarily ethereal spirits.. sounds very close to Fairy. It's just missing the religious connotation, but I'm not even sure whether that would be a good thing or not.

Dance - I was actually thinking it would make sense if anything dance-related would be covered by Sound. I mean, types often include themes that their names don't directly imply, but otherwise naturally synergize with. Think of the Sound type as the "Music" type (notice I have Bellossom and Maractus as Sound retcons for example). This does remind me that I forgot to mention a "dilemma"-case for the Sound type. I couldn't find a way to make Ludicolo part Sound. It's interesting actually, because just like with Shiftry, it's the evolution method that's preventing me from making Ludicolo Sound/Grass (it evolves via Water Stone).

Healer - I guess if something as specific as "Poison" is valid, then you have an interesting point there. I can't think of more than 3 families as candidates though (Chansey, Audino, Alomomola...perhaps Meganium?). How about calling it a Life type? Also, I was a bit surprised that Fairy didn't grab anything and everything that such a type would entail for itself (Chansey and co aren't actual Fairy types and the moves relevant are either Psy or Normal), but I would propose to merge whatever a hypothetical Healer type would encompass with the Fairy type.

Digital - makes you immediately think of Porygon.. but can much else be done with it beyond that one line?

Light - not in the sense of goodness and life, but rather as pure elemental light, right? I usually dismiss it simply because any examples are probably already Electric and happy with that. I was going to browse what Pokémon learn some generic light-moves, but realized there really aren't any such moves to begin with. Flash isn't learned by anything noteworthy.. so I'm curious what the list of candidates would be besides Ampharos and Lanturn.

Gas - I was thinking of naming the Wind type an Air type instead, but since I decided to also have it include focus on speed as one of the aspects, Wind felt more suitable. It's also more broad in things you can spread through the air for indirect damage (spores, ice particles, heat, sand, and poison or smoke of course).

As for Fish... I went down that route as well, will make a post about my take on that one later.

 

[Mitja]

On to my next type. This one was heavily promted by the mascots of Sun/Moon: Cosmic

The idea is to get anything to do with aliens and space in general into one type. If Flying is "above" Ground, then Cosmic is "above" Flying. It includes themes like shooting stars/meteors, planets/moons/stars, vacuum/void, light/x-rays/radiowaves, gravity manipulation, and of course creatures that are:

Alien

Currently, anything space-related is handled by Psychic, but not exclusively to the point that you could easily say it is a redundant concept, since Fairy also has it's share of it (mostly moon related though).

But I felt like there is enough flavor (themes I listed above) there to make a full type out of it, so I gave it a try, and was actually quite surprised by the number of retcon candidates I found:


Main representatives and the closest to being actual aliens would be:

Of course the biggest flaw is the presence of combinations with Psychic (as well as the handful of cases where Psychic was actually replaced by Cosmic).

Main dilemma was whether the following Pokémon should have one of its types replaced:

I'm still unsure about leaving it untouched. There are heavy references to brainpower in the whole evolutionary-line, but it's also screaming to be a Cosmic type.. (not to mention it wants to keep STAB on Meteor Mash after that is turned into a Cosmic move)

In context of the Energy-Strategy-Species topic, I'd consider Cosmic as a Species type (which further differentiates it from Psychic being a strategy type, and makes the Psychic+Cosmic combo akin to Rock+Ground or Ghost+Dark)

EDIT: already changed my mind on Beldum++. There is too much piling on for it to be Cosmic (Meteor Mash, UFO-looking, "repelling earths natural gravity", as well as increasing type diversity for Cosmic) against the sole "superior intelligence" reasoning on the Psychic side

 

[A Dragon of Destiny]

@Mitja I noticed you added plastic and aquatic types, I assume you will be doing type evaluations on those as well. Right?

 

[Mitja]

@Mitja I noticed you added _______ and _______ types, I assume you will be doing type evaluations on those as well. Right?

Aw crap I forgot to blur them out in the Cosmic image and now you've spoiled them ;P

Yes, currently writing a post about the latter

 

[Mitja]

And now into the most "redundant" type idea I would like to present anyway.

My premise was this:
Water is the most abundant type, to the point where every 6th Pokémon on average is a Water type (133 out of 802), which is slightly mind-blowing. So if any type could use a "split" into 2 separate types, it's definitely Water.

One of the side-effects of splitting Water would be that it might give some of the forgotten Water Pokémon a new chance to distinguish themselves from the rest. It would also make "Water starters" feel more special (I never liked how the Fire starter was one of very few options to add a Fire type to your team in most games, while not just having loads of alternatives to the Water starter, but also forcing you to either have 2 of them or use your starter as a HM-slave.)

But of course the question is, "what could you possibly separate from Water?"

And the answer seems to me as clear as day.

On one side, you have Water as an element. In the same way as Fire, Electric and Ice are elements. Pokémon usually conjure them out of thin air to attack their opponents with them.

On the other side, you have water as an environment, which requires special skills to use to your advantage, similar to Ground and Flying types.

These 2 sides are not necessarily inherently linked.

A Pokémon can be a master of Water as an element, but have zero survival skills underwater or ease at fighting in water:


And the opposite is true as well. A Pokémon can be a creature that naturally survives in the sea or rivers, but doesn't use Water itself as its element of choice when it comes to battles:


The best name I can come up with for the latter category: Aquatic type.
(Marine would imply sea-only, Fish would exclude a lot of underwater creatures like crustaceans etc... if you have any other ideas, tell me)

So this Aquatic type could be considered like a strategy-type (swimming/diving, drowning the opponent, hiding and dodging in water) as well as like a species-type (fish, all sorts of sea-dwelling creatures, amphibians etc.)


And for direct comparison, here are the Pokémon I'd leave as elementally Water-flavored:

Notice how distinct I managed to make these 2 types in terms of strengths and weaknesses, as that is an additional reason adding onto the plausibility of the type.

I did try to make some "counterparts" that used to both be Water type more distinct by changing the one more fitting of them to Aquatic, while leaving the one more prominently associated with the element as a Water type.


One minor detail that would be a side-effect of this is that the Hoenn mascots now look elegantly perfect type-wise:

They now both start with a pure type representing their "side", with their "element" only fully coming to fruition in their Primal formes.

 

[Scattered mind]

I like the idea of separating Water to Water and Aquatic. It fits your way of splitting the types, which I think is the most decent way by far.
If so, here is another similar approach:
Dark--- Dark & Trickster

Dark: As an energy, like Dark Pulse, Dark Void, Night Slash
Trickster: as a strategy, like Fake Tears, Sucker Punch, Bite, Foul Play.

And then Pokemon like Bisharp, Umbreon, Mega Gyarados and Hydreygon would stay Dark, while others like Zoruark, Sneasel, Greninja and Krookodile.

Will respond later on the other points.

 

[Scattered mind]

Troll/Demon - could you find some examples out of the existing 802 Pokémon that would somewhat represent the essence of these types? I'm having a hard time thinking of any. Demon specifically sounds to me like it would be what Ghost is (if you just ignore the name ghost), morbid shady creatures... which reminds me about Sableye, probably the closest to a candidate fro Demon? Perhaps the Deino line swapping out the Dark part?

Troll would be a species that is monstrous, big, yet not very smart, or having a silly nature. Examples:

Snorlax
Exeggutor
Lickitung
Granbull (totally fitter than Fairy)
Slaking
Exploud
Conkeldurr

Notice that there are a lot of Normal Types here, so that's also good as an attempt to eradicate this weird type.

As for Demons, yeah I guess Ghost types are doing top demonic looking creatures what Bug type is doing to spider Pokemon.

Angel - good and not necessarily ethereal spirits.. sounds very close to Fairy. It's just missing the religious connotation, but I'm not even sure whether that would be a good thing or not.

Yeah this one is totally redundant with Fairy existing. They are both species.

Digital - makes you immediately think of Porygon.. but can much else be done with it beyond that one line?

Challenge accepted! Aaand I failed.

Light - not in the sense of goodness and life, but rather as pure elemental light, right? I usually dismiss it simply because any examples are probably already Electric and happy with that. I was going to browse what Pokémon learn some generic light-moves, but realized there really aren't any such moves to begin with. Flash isn't learned by anything noteworthy.. so I'm curious what the list of candidates would be besides Ampharos and Lanturn.

I agree. Both Electric and Fairy cover all of Light's reasons to exist.

 

[Mitja]

What could possibly be a fifth type I'd want to add to all of this you might be wondering?

Take a look at this seemingly random group of Pokémon:


I saw some potential in "weird" Pokémon designs. At first I wasn't sure what exactly I'm looking for, but the contrast of Steel and Ghost was on my mind.
Both feature some biologically radical creatures (a lifeform made of gears or magnets? lifeforms that don't have mass and go through walls?), and then it occured to me there could be another type inbetween, playing a role opposite of Steel.

You've probably heard of the "amorphous" egg-group. Basically it includes Pokémon that don't have a fixed body structure. That's the first aspect that fit nicely as a real tangible contrast to Steel (unlike the ethereal nature of ghost-types), creatures who have deformability...plasticity in their nature to some degree.

A generic example Pokémon design of the type I was looking for, could be described like "an orange rubber blob with tentacles" xD

But in addition to that (I mean, not all Steel types are abstract machinery-inspired designs either, some are merely covered in armors made of metal alloys for example), the type would also include aspects of wearing and using unnatural materials (with, but not exclusively, a focus being polymers) or toy/appliance-like appearances.

I present to you my most WTF made up Pokémon type so far:


The main gripe I have with it, is that I can't include Mimiyku and Rotom in the selection due to them being distinct dual types already.

I like the idea of separating Water to Water and Aquatic. It fits your way of splitting the types, which I think is the most decent way by far.
If so, here is another similar approach:
Dark--- Dark & Trickster

Dark: As an energy, like Dark Pulse, Dark Void, Night Slash
Trickster: as a strategy, like Fake Tears, Sucker Punch, Bite, Foul Play.

And then Pokemon like Bisharp, Umbreon, Mega Gyarados and Hydreygon would stay Dark, while others like Zoruark, Sneasel, Greninja and Krookodile.

I wanna point out some of the japanese names here.
Night Slash is originally called "crossroad killing", and Dark Pulse is literally "Evil Pulse" (you can also notice that the description talks about an aura of horrible thoughts).
So there isn't really much literal "darkness" in the current Dark type to begin with. Which might actually be a good reason to add one (it would make sense to address these glaring intentional mistranslations first though..)
But in that case, the existing competition you are looking at is the Ghost type, as they are the prominent night-time creatures and that type is where all the relevant moves are (half of the ghost type moves simply have "shadow" as the first part of the name)

Now I wonder how "Dark" can be fixed though... renaming it to Trickster? Sounds a bit long. How is Shady type? Dubious type?...Coward type? Mean type, Vile type...

Troll would be a species that is monstrous, big, yet not very smart, or having a silly nature

Ah I see where you're going. Bewear, Darmanitan, Magmortar and Electivire?
Emboar, Rhyperior, Golem, if they weren't all dual types. Am I on the right track?

 

[Scattered mind]

Yes, you are not sure what would be their relations with the other types, though.

 

[Mitja]

Did a full Plastic group picture now, just because I was curious to see if it falls apart or makes it look even more convincing xD

Yes, you are not sure what would be their relations with the other types, though.

Well Psychic would beat them for one, as well as resist them, and they'd probably get tricked by ghosts.. They could resist projectiles, so the Rock type specifically.

...I think I've just described the Fighting type x__x

Well Fighting also has it's share of dumb big guys :'D

 

[Celever]

1. What makes a new type plausible, or worth adding? Or what makes it a terrible choice? (concept, effect on type chart, potential old candidates)

I think that at the end of the day the most important decision about new types is what essential new thing they bring to the table. Back in Gen II, Dark-Type served as an antithesis to Fighting- and Psychic-Type, fulfilling the role far better than the previous antithesis, Poison-Type. Steel-Type was an important addition to the series as a whole as it opened up avenues to create more artificial Pokémon based on machinery. Later, Fairy-Type was introduced to balance out the type chart, which was a great change to the series as a whole, and on top of that actually serves as the true "Dark-Type" in Japan, given its innumerable connections with night time, nothing moreso than the moon, which was previously a staple of the Dark-Type in the west. Adding new types for the sake of adding new types is, imo, a very dangerous road to go down.

2. When a new type is added, how many old Pokémon getting retconned would be acceptable? (is it okay to change previous types, or only if it replaces Normal?) And if it would require a lot of retcons, would that mean the type is therefore not plausible?

For me, a number can't be placed on the exact type, but every change needs to have very good reasoning behind it, and only apply to Pokémon who, if the type had been around when they were first designed, would feel like the Pokémon was designed specifically for that type. The clearest example I can give for this is the Magnemite family in Generation II. They had metallic bodies, and one of their iconic traits is their magnets. These are intrinsically linked with the whole idea of the Steel-Type. With the Fairy-Type, the lines were blurred a little more. Pokémon like Clefairy were obvious changes for the Fairy-Type given their fundamental connection with the moon (they live in Mt. Moon for goodness' sake) but on the other hand, certain change were, imo, unnecessary with the introduction of the Fairy-Type, such as Marill, Cottonnee and Mr. Mime. They don't scream Fairy-Type enough to elicit the change as far as I'm concerned, as changing things about old Pokémon is a dangerous road to travel. Thankfully, though, the Fairy-Type was a massive success, and all the Pokémon who had design changes seem to have gained fans as a result. I don't think this is a rule though, and shouldn't be relied on.

3. How many types are too many? 18? 20? 30? Do we even ever want more...or would anyone actually prefer if GF reduced the number of types?

I actually think that there are currently too many types if we just think about the number. Even in Generation I when there were only 15 types, the type chart was bloody difficult to learn because every type interacts with every other type. With 17 types, I know a lot of people who had a lot of difficulty with every type matchup even after having played the series for multiple generations. However, with every edition in the series, it is slowly becoming more and more beginner-friendly. If players simply battle in-game, they are now literally told the type matchups of any move they could make. This addition, assuming it remains in the series, opens the door for more types IMO, as learning the type chart can become more gradual with directly affecting gameplay and hurting beginners who haven't had as much experience by that point. After all, every game in the series is designed directly to have beginner friendly attributes and to be fairly pick up and play.

4. What about the current 18 types, are any of them poorly thought through? Redundant? Underused or not yet living up to their potential? Or perhaps just mis-named in context of what their actual concept seems to be?

I think that, on paper, there are a few poorly conceptualised types. Bug-Type, for example, could easily be merged with Grass-Type for a "wild" or "nature" type. Dragon-Type is a little too specific, and could be a "scale" type instead. Fighting-Type would be better off as a "valour" type, and Ghost-Type better as an "animation" type, as it incorporates re-animation of spirits but also has a wider scope for things like Banette and Mimikyu, which use the type without it making absolute sense. However, as the series has progressed, I think it's given each and every type an absolute and indispensable identity. For example, while both Bug- and Grass-Type have an association with status moves, Bug-Type status moves are more "annoying" such as Infestation or String Shot, trapping an opponent or affecting their stats. On the other hand, Grass-Type is associated moreso with healing or actual status conditions through moves like Leech Seed or the Powder moves, while also having the differentiating factor of Sunny Day. While on paper there may be some types which aren't brilliant conceptually, in practice and over the development that the series has gradually seen over time, I honestly don't think there is a single type which could ever be removed.

I actually have always had an opinion of a particular type I would like to see in the series, and I also have some thoughts on the types you've already posted. I will pay this thread more time when I have it and make more posts, as it's a really interesting topic, and I love you well-thought out ideas, Mitja!

 

[Jabberwock]

I'm gonna hop in on this discussion as well; I love seeing debates about the nature of Pokémon design (and I also love reading your content @Mitja ) and I thought I'd toss in my own two cents.

Plastic might be my favorite of the new types you've brought up, because it's just so original––I don't think I've ever seen any fan type remotely like it, haha. It made me go look at a list of Egg Groups to see what other possibilities there were, and noted that there were quite a few named "Water", lending credence to your "Aquatic" type idea. Anywho, I wanted to ask about the name. I reckon you were going for plastic in a sense of amorphous polymer-y stuff, basically stretchy blobs, yeah? A bit like these guys? I could totally see that, and it definitely works as a theme among all those Pokémon, but my concern is that "plastic" as a word tends to connote something "cheap" or "artificial", not so much "amorphous". In light of that, d'you think perhaps "Amorphous" itself, despite being the name of the Egg Group, would work instead as the name of the type? Or maybe just "Morph". Idk, I just had trouble associating things like Regigigas, Mewtwo, and Silvally with plastic.

Was also wondering about your classification of the Porygon line as Plastic rather than Cosmic, as Porygon-2 has several Pokédex entries that mention it being developed for interplanetary exploration, and Porygon-Z's mention it being intended for inter-dimensional flight. I admit Cosmic was where my mind first jumped when I read scattered's suggestion of a Digital type.

When I looked at the Egg Groups, "Monster" seemed to me like a prime alternative name for "Dragon". Beyond that, I could see "Legend" working, particularly since so many Legendary Pokémon are Dragon-type.

Also, d'you happen to have lists of retconned moves for each type? I'd love to take a look at them if you've got 'em.

For new types, I was thinking kinda abstractly, and came up with "Time". I know it sounds like just another thing that Psychic can cover, but hear me out. Lots of Pokémon in Unova and Kalos in particular harken to a time several thousand years before the events of the story, where some old civilization constructed and used Pokémon like Golurk and Aegislash. I started looking for more Pokémon like this, and there are quite a few I could see working as part-Time (which now that I think about it has some ridiculous other connotations, haha––maybe something like "Ancient" instead). I'd imagine Fossils are quite literally the original Alolan forms, as the Rock-type aspect of them comes from their being turned to rock over several million years. Perhaps, millions of years ago, Kabutops wasn't Rock/Water, but Time/Water, Ancient/Water, w/e. There are some obvious other candidates for this (Celebi), but I reckon Dialga probably shouldn't be part-Time, as that leaves Palkia in an awkward spot.

 

[Mitja]

Thanks, I'm glad some people like these

Yeah, the 3 Water egg-groups have been interesting to me for a long time, as they seem to be making distinction between just superficially water-related Pokémon, actual fish Pokémon and seafloor creatures. I've always wished they'd be renamed to something that would make that more clear.

I hesitated with Plastic initially as I was trying to find a better word, but it's all either too long and complicated (a type name has to be as easy and tangible as possible, even if its name doesn't accurately describe the concepts in the end), the closest I got to an alternative was Rubber. Something like Synthetic is too sophisticated and also implies a necessary artificiality that I'm trying to avoid (since lots of the "Plastic" candidates are in no way artificial, they merely have an unnatural feel about them).
The type has really grown on me, as it reminds me of how I felt when Steel was added..it was just so unexpected and unique.

I guess I didn't look close enough at Porygon.
Looking at its DEX entries, I could see Porygon2 being Cosmic, but by the time you get to Porygon-Z, it could possibly also be Ghost

Dragon certainly seems to have an "epic" use in addition to literal Dragons.
A comparison I usually bring up is the contrast between the DPt and BW mascots.
They're both powerful legendary trios, and both have a shared Dragon type.

Despite the Unova Dragons having the more colorful elemental types, they are the trio that has Dragon as their primary type, because they are actually refered to as the legendary Dragon Pokémon in the games. Whereas for Dialga/Palkia/Giratina, the secondary Dragon type is never referred to, it just relates to their epic appearances.

So I could see a reason to split the "legendary" aspect from the Dragon type, and make the Dragon type a more tame like a Monster, Dinosaur or Serpent type..
The issue would be that the new Legend type would not be able to be made good use of for retconning previous epic legendaries, since a lot of them already have dual types.


I very much prefer the "Ancient" type to a more general Time one.
Baltoy/Claydol (Ancient/Psychic)
Golett/Golurk (Ancient/Ghost)
Regirock/Regice/Registeel (Rock,Ice,Steel/Ancient)

I'd have to disagree on the whole fossil-subject (I'm a proponent of the idea that fossil-Pokémon are literally clones, resurrected to be exactly like they were millions of years ago, and that them being Rock-type is actually the crucial reason why their DNA was preserved well enough to be able to be brought back in the first place. I also feel like the Rock-type is integral to their designs, ie if they weren't Rock type, they'd also look vastly different.. not to mention that apart from Tirtouga, Rock is even their primary type, rather than something just slapped on as an afterthought, while Tirtougas secondary Rock type also serves to point out that it's not a rule either, implying that the Rock type "placement" varies based on design...like for any non-fossil Rock Pokémon), but that's a whole nother topic ;P


Oh and I was looking at move retcons while making those types as well, I've included them here:
http://saiph-charon.deviantart.com/gallery/63735668/Fake-types-Retcon-Project

All of them have better starts than for example Fairy had (it had to come up with an entirely new list of moves for itself (besides what, Charm and Moonlight?)

 

[blahblahbal]

I like the ideas behind these. I thought about the Plastic-type dilemma, and maybe it could be called Abnormal. Since there is a Normal type, I suppose this could be a tad too similar. I've thought about Sound and Cosmic. I also worked around the far too common name 'Light' and came up with Sunshine. Here is a type chart that I made using an online program on a website (can't remember the website's name :/):



I know it doesn't include Cosmic, but that's because I didn't think about it when I made this chart.

To be specific, here is a list of the Pokémon that could be retyped to Sunshine or part-Sunshine:

Spoiler

Meganium
Bellossom
Sunkern
Sunflora
Espeon
Castform (Sunny Form)
Lilligant
Volcarona
Florges
Helioptile
Heliolisk
Lycanroc (Midday Form)
Solgaleo

I'm probably missing a few that could be classified as Sunshine. It wouldn't be a large type, that's for sure. And I know you dismissed this type simply because it can be covered by Fairy and Electric. That's all well and good. But we can dream, can we not? xD

EDIT:

I think that Fairy as a type is a bit... odd, to be honest. I mean, a couple of the type matchups don't even make sense. Look at it this way:

Dragons are weak to Fairy. This means that, essentially, large, strong Dragons cower in fear of tiny things. While this may be made up for in ye olde fairy tales where dragons are charmed away by magical fairies, it simply makes no sense in Pokemon. At least in my opinion.

Another thing that makes little sense is the 'Fire resists Fairy' thing. I mean, this just points to the whole 'Fairy is GF's light/sunshine/angel/whatever-the-name-you're-using-is type.' Why make Fairy named that in the first place -_-. It just irks me for some reason lol.

Plus they gave Poison and Steel an advantage over Fairy. While this was to make the said types stronger, it still doesn't negate some questionable decisions. (I'm looking at you, Xerneas. <_<.)

That's just my rant about Fairy type. Lol.


Also, I feel like:
1) To be considered for a new type, the type has to have at least 3 Pokemon that are of it. Example: Gen 1 Gastly/Haunter/Gengar and Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite.
2) There is no limit on the number of Pokemon that can be the type. Example: Look at the official Pokemon. GF keeps adding more that are of every type. So therefore, there is no limit.
3) A new type must:
a) Be reasonable
b) Be well thought out (No quick thoughts, no 'hey this would be cool, let's make it a type!')
4) You must have fun thinking about these types.

 

[Mitja]

While I do think "Light" is too generic and covered by a bunch of other types.. when you narrow it towards "sunlight" and day-time, it has more potential, because it feels like it has a flavor now. (also orange is super underrepresented in the current set of type icons :'D)

Here's who I think of with that idea:
Meganium°
Bellossom°
Sunflora°
Espeon
Solrock*
Groudon*
Cherrim°
Lilligant°
Volcarona*
Florges
Heliolisk
Lurantis°
Solgaleo*

*existing dual type poses dilemmas
°big number of the selection is Grass types