XY Help With Choosing a Starter: Analysis of the X and Y Starters

Discussion in 'VG News & Discussion' started by Rune Yagami, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Rune Yagami Aspiring Trainer
    Rune Yagami

    Member

    This thread is here to help making the decision on which starter to pick easier. Lately, I've seen a lot of people saying that they are going to choose a starter based on appearance alone. While this is something to take into account, it isn't everything.
    I have compiled some data about the starters, and the different combinations of them. I did not run analysis on pairs of starters that share a type (i.e. Delphox and Charizard).

    Here are the scores of each starter Pokemon individually, obtained by subtracting the number of Pokemon (with confirmed typing, keep in mind) that resist the Pokemon's STABs from the number of Pokemon that take Super Effective damage from its STABs.

    Here is the formula:
    Score = (# of Pokemon that are Weak to STABs) - (# of Pokemon Resistant/Immune to STABs)

    And here are the results:
    #1 Fire/Psychic Delphox with a score of: 223 -19 = 204
    #2 Water/Dark Greninja with a score of: 202 - 16 = 186
    #3 Fire/Flying Charizard with a score of: 207 - 38 = 169
    #4 Grass/Fighting Chesnaught with a score of: 273 - 127 = 146
    #5 Grass/Poison Venusaur with a score of: 201 - 75 = 126
    #6 Water Blastoise with a score of: 119 - 190 = -71

    From this, we can see that offensively, individually, Delphox is the best starter. This is useful information, but when the starters are paired the results are quite different.

    Scores of the Pairs: (Remember, pairs of similar types are not included here.)
    #1 Grass/Fighting + Fire/Flying Chesnaught and Charizard with a score of: 436 - 0 = 436
    #2 Water/Dark + Fire/Flying Greninja and Charizard with a score of: 381 - 0 = 381
    #3 Fire/Psychic + Grass/Poison Delphox and Venusaur with a score of: 362 - 0 = 362
    #4 Water/Dark + Grass/Poison Greninja and Venusaur with a score of: 348 - 0 = 348
    #5 Fire/Psychic + Water Delphox and Blastiose with a score of: 326 - 12 = 314
    #6 Grass/Fighting + Water Chesnaught and Blastoise with a score of: 334 - 37 = 297

    From this data we can clearly see that Charizard gets the Team Player award. It is interesting to note that Chesnaught is either at the top of the pack or the bottom depending on what Pokemon it is paired with. Regardless, the results are clear.

    Offensively, the best combination of starter Pokemon is Chesnaught and Charizard.

    The data above doesn't take into account the defensive aspects of the Pokemon, so I have compiled the following:

    The formula is a bit more intense to come up with a defensive score. Here it is:
    Score = (2.5(# of immunities) + 2(# of 4x resistances) + (# of 2x resistances)) - ((2(# of 4x weaknesses) + (# of 2x weaknesses))

    To put it simply, a Pokemon gains 2.5 points for each immunity, 2 points for each 4x resistance, and 1 point for each 2x resistance, and loses 2 points for each 4x weakness and 1 point for each 2x weakness.

    Here are the individual results:
    #1 Fire/Flying Charizard with a score of: (2.5(1) + 2(2) + 4) - (2(1) - 2) = 6.5
    #2 Water/Dark Greninja with a score of: (2.5(1) + 2(0) + 6) - (2(0) + 5) = 3.5
    #3 Grass/Poision Venusaur with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(1) + 4) - (2(0) - 4) = 2
    #3 Water Blastoise with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(0) + 4) - (2(0) + 2) = 2
    #5 Fire/Psychic Delphox with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(0) + 6) - (2(0) + 5) = 1
    #6 Grass/Fighting Chesnaught with a score of (2.5(0) + (2(0) + 6) - (2(1) + 5) = -1

    Contrary to what one might think, Charizard is actually the best individually defensive Pokemon based on type alone.

    Here are the defensive scores of the pairs:
    #1 Water/Dark + Fire/Flying Greninja and Charizard with a score of: (2.5(2) + 2(2) + 10) - (2(1) + 7) = 10
    #2 Water/Dark + Grass/Poison Greninja and Venusaur with a score of: (2.5(1) + 2(1) + 10) - (2(0) + 9) = 5.5
    #2 Grass/Fighting + Fire/Flying Chesnaught and Charizard with a score of: (2.5(1) + 2(2) + 10) - (2(2) + 7) = 5.5
    #4 Fire/Psychic + Water Delphox and Blastoise with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(0) + 11) - (2(0) + 7) = 4
    #5 Fire/Psychic + Grass/Poison Delphox and Venusaur with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(1) + 10) - (2(0) + 9) = 3
    #6 Grass/Fighting + Water Chesnaught and Blastoise with a score of: (2.5(0) + 2(0) + 9) - (2(1) + 7) = 0

    Defensively as a pair, Greninja and Charizard are the best.

    Now, this is where the fun part comes in. We have the defensive scores, and we have the offensive scores, so coming up with a composite score to find the best overall pair really shouldn't be that hard. I have decided to multiply the defensive scores by 50 for the sake of averaging the scores together.

    This is the formula I will use:
    Overall Score = (50(Defensive score) + Offensive score) / 2

    Here are the results:
    #1 Water/Dark + Fire/Flying Greninja and Charizard with a score of: (50(10) + 381) / 2 = 440.5
    #2 Grass/Fighting + Fire/Flying Chesnaught and Charizard with a score of: (50(5.5) + 436) / 2 = 355.5
    #3 Water/Dark + Grass/Poison Greninja and Venusaur with a score of: (50(5.5) + 348) / 2 = 311.5
    #4 Fire/Psychic + Water Delphox and Blastoise with a score of: (50(4) + 314) / 2 = 257
    #5 Fire/Psychic + Grass/Poison Delphox and Venusaur with a score of: (50(3) + 362) / 2 = 256
    #6 Grass/Fighting + Water Chesnaught and Blastoise with a score of: (50(0) + 297) / 2 = 148.5

    As you can see, based on type, the best Starter combination is Greninja and Charizard.

    I hope you all find this information useful in making your decisions.

    Please, any feedback will be most appreciated. And if you find any silly math errors, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Rune Yagami
     


  2. Blob55 Aspiring Trainer
    Blob55

    Member

    RE: Help With Choosing a Starter: Analysis of the X and Y Starter Combinations.

    Good thing I was going to pick Greninja and Charizard anyway...
    But for Y I was going to pick Delphox and Venusaur. W/e.
     
    Sheriff_K and Rayquazapokemon20 like this.
  3. TrainerSivan Aspiring Trainer
    TrainerSivan

    Member

    Undecided - Help With Picking a Kalos Starter - Fennekin or Chespin?

    For the first time ever, I think I love TWO starters so much that I cannot choose. As you can guess from the title, I am stuck between Fennekin and Chespin. Sorry Team Froakie but the water starter hasn't stolen my heart this time. I am trying to figure out which one I like more and would appreciate the input and personal biases!

    Help me decide which one to pick by arguing why you would prefer Chespin or Fennekin. I need to consider all the possibilities because I fear that they have run through my head too many times to be objective!

    I tend to take the following into consideration when choosing a starter:

    1. Appearance: I like to form a bond with my starter Pokemon and that often begins with me liking what it is. Animal it is based off of is important, as is design. However, it isn't the most important thing I consider but it is largely influence.
    2. Evolutions: This is a lesser things I take into consider when I choose my starters. I like to like the evolutions and this ties into my enjoyment of their appearance. If I can't like what they turn into then I lose my connection with them. However, I do not dislike any starters to the point of not ever using one. I have my preferences but I have not (including this generation) come across an deal-breaker choice.
    3. Types: I tend to like water type Pokemon but the type is not the largest influence in my choice. I have never liked a grass Pokemon most of all and used one as my first pick, for some reason. As for evolutionary types, I find them enjoyable things to consider but not necessarily a make-it-or-break-it deal for strategy purposes.
    4. Theme: I like themes that go with Pokemon because I love seeing creativity.

    So, with these things in mind, here are my pros and cons:

    Fennekin Pros:


    -He was my gut reaction favorite when the starters were first revealed last year
    -I love fire types and rarely use them
    -I really enjoy the concept of his final evolution, although it is not my favorite
    -His personality as seen so far is something I am attracted to
    -I have a nickname that I love for him: Flamel, based on the alchemist. Alchemists are basically wizards and magic users are Fennekin's theme. The name is a great type-related pun as well! Very fitting.

    Fennekin Cons:

    -I am not a huge fan of his evolutions. Bipedal was not the direction I had imagined and although this is normally not a problem, the designs did not woo me over. I particularly am irked by how Delphox's head appears to be attached to its body, which seems unnatural for some reason
    -I like more animal-like Pokemon and the humanoid direction Fennekin turns to reminds me too much of furries, which I do not like
    -Again with the more natural animal preference, I am not sure how I feel about a bipedal giant final evo being trained by a human smaller than it. It seems...strange. Lucario I am fine with but Delphox seems very human to me and I don't know how I feel about that.

    Chespin Pros:

    -He was my immediate second favorite once I realised he was a hedgehog combined with a chestnut, two of my favorite things (I noticed this minutes after my gut reaction to Fennekin)
    -I find all of his evolutions good. Although I was not a Quilladin fan at first, I do love chubby, round, Pokemon and decided he was adorable.
    - Chesnaught is my favorite of all the starters' final evolutions
    -I love his theme and think it suits Pokemon as a game very well
    -Although he is bipedal, he still retains animal qualities
    -I have a nickname I am favoring for him: KnightQuill, a punny sounding name that describes his characteristics well.

    Chespin Cons:

    -Grass/Fighting as a final typing is not something I hate but I have mixed feelings about it. I attribute this to my general dislike of fighting as a type (which is weird because I love many fighting type Pokemon... this probably has to do with the overkill of fighting as a secondary starter type)
    -I do not find him as cute as Fennekin, which is not to say I don't find him cute. I simply don't find his first stage to be my favorite out of all the starter designs, although I do love him immensely.
    -I have never had a grass starter as my first pick, so it feel strange.
    -I feel bad for abandoning my first gut reaction to a Pokemon and this guilt makes me turn from poor Chespin

    I do not care about stats overall, especially not in the initial gameplay. I can be competitive later but even then I would rather play with my favorites. So help me decide! Are you Team Fennekin or Team Chespin? Why did you choose either one as your starter? Why do you think I should choose Fennekin or Chespin?

    Please feel free to use your bias and argue me into a decision. I need to rationalize these torn feelings somehow!
     
  4. Familiar Make 7up Yours!!!!!!
    Familiar

    Member

    RE: Undecided - Help With Picking a Kalos Starter - Fennekin or Chespin?

    In the games before Black & White, you'd need a fire type before you be able to find a good fire type in the wild.
     
  5. TrainerSivan Aspiring Trainer
    TrainerSivan

    Member

    RE: Undecided - Help With Picking a Kalos Starter - Fennekin or Chespin?

    I don't always have a firetype on my team. I am a player of favorites.
     
  6. xRuneXero Magikarp Breeder
    xRuneXero

    Member

    RE: Undecided - Help With Picking a Kalos Starter - Fennekin or Chespin?

    I personally like all the starters this gen, but judging from your pros and cons I'd say you'd be better served in the end with Chespin, seems like you got things planned out with him :)
     
  7. TrainerSivan Aspiring Trainer
    TrainerSivan

    Member

  8. Windies HockeyMan
    Windies

    Member

    Looking at this making me think about who I'm really going to pick was so set on Delphox
    but now cannot decide who her partner will be.
    "Notes rolling till i get a female Fennekin" if all else fails and i cannot decide


    If i ask nicely can we get Blaziken thrown in the combos as well might help me decide on a set starter
     
  9. iDrake Aspiring Trainer
    iDrake

    Member

    Is this list made for a run through or for competitive play?


    Once again the Grass starter is the f'cked one. That's what I hate about GF so much, they never balanced the grass typing to make it competitively more attractive.


    Thanks for the effort :)
    Maybe you could take the even torchic into account? I doubt that anyone won't get him ;)
     
  10. I Like Pie Smile smile smile!
    I Like Pie

    Member

    I was already thinking of going with Chespin and Charmander as Grass/ Fighting and Fire/ Flying seemed like a good combination to me.

    This list made me firm on my decision! Thanks! :D
     
  11. Rune Yagami Aspiring Trainer
    Rune Yagami

    Member

    It is more for a run through, where team synergy is especially important.

    As for taking Torchic into account, I didn't do this for two reasons:

    1. Not everyone will have the ability to get it.
    2. I don't like "gift" Pokemon from Nintendo as it takes away from the story/role-play of the playthrough. "Where did my character get this random Torchic?" That kind of thing.

    However, to address Torchic is simple, you would want to pick one Water and one Grass starter to go along with the little chicken, and I would pick Greninja and Venusaur as to not compound weaknesses with two Fighting types.
     
  12. Spartan Sceptile Just goin for a walk.....
    Spartan Sceptile

    Member

    wow, the 2 pokemon I wanted are overall best pair, im happy :D
    I am going to get torchic but not use it unless I need it, ill use it at the start when I only have like 3 pokemon but when I start catching ill box it
    I have to wait about 2 weeks after pokemon X/Y come out to get it because 1. I don't have the money 2. Going to ask for my bday which is 25th Oct
     
  13. Rune Yagami Aspiring Trainer
    Rune Yagami

    Member

    After all this, I am going to pick Greninja and Venusaur, even though they aren't the best, Venusaur has been a favorite of mine since I was very young, and I can't let go of the change to have a nostalgic playthrough. That, and having a Poison-type is going to be a neccessity, with all the new Fairy-types running around. I used to want to go with Fennekin rather than Froakie, but finding out that Shauna gives you a baby starter has led me to pick Froakie, so then I can also get Fennekin later. Also, if for some reason I do decide to use Torchic (unlikely), I will have a good core if I have Froakie and Bulbasuar as well.
     
    mastermagpie likes this.
  14. Rune Yagami Aspiring Trainer
    Rune Yagami

    Member

    [split] Help With Choosing a Starter: Analysis of the X and Y Starters

    More and more, I think I am going to choose Froakie and Charmander. Sorry Bulbasaur!
    I loved Bulbasaur as it was the first Pokemon I chose on Blue Version, but on my several playthroughs of Red Version, I always picked Charmander. I can't deny the synergy between Charizard and Froakie, and probably will choose them.
     
  15. Kaiser Dynamo I Hate Fairies...
    Kaiser Dynamo

    Member

    I normally pick starters based on looks, but this just solidifies my Froakie/Charmander choice.
     
  16. Sheriff_K Eevee Breeder
    Sheriff_K

    Member

    I really wish I could use Greninja AND Chesnaught...

    Chesnaught's one move Shell Armor, or whatever, is AWESOME! It's like Protect, but better... :3
     
  17. WanderingWolf Only *insert number here* days to go!
    WanderingWolf

    Member

    Oh wonderful. Good thing I was going to pick Chesnaught and Blastoise. Nice to know that they come in last, and Blastoise is horrible. Well, there's always next generation.
     
  18. G-Panthera The Ruler of Planet Panthera
    G-Panthera

    Member

    For those who have trouble choosing a starter, you also get a second Kalos starter somewhere at the end of the Pokémon League as leaked in the Leaks thread somewhere. Depending on your first choice, you either get a Fennekin, Chespin or Froakie through trading any Pokemon in return.

    Here's what you get depending on your first choice:

    1. Choose Chespin first, get Froakie later.
    2. Choose Froakie first, get Fennekin later
    3. Choose Fennekin first, get Chespin later.
     
  19. Rune Yagami Aspiring Trainer
    Rune Yagami

    Member

    While this is a cool thing, it doesn't much effect your choices, as you won't get this 3rd starter until after the Pokemon League, so it is absolutely no help throughout the game.

    Also, just FYI you have to trade 1 Pokemon (any) to Shauna to get this 3rd Starter.
     
  20. Turtwig Retired Mod. Jovimohnaeliackvid.
    Turtwig

    Member

    Well keep in mind that in the game itself, any combination of Pokemon can be successful. This shouldn't deter you from using one combination over another. I'm personally choosing Chesnaught because its stats are very nicely put (kind of like a faster, albeit slightly weaker, Torterra). Since there are a variety of nice fire-types in the game (wow, I can't believe I'm saying that!), I've avoided Fennekin. I also like Clawitzer, so I'm not using Greninja.

    Also, it can't just be the immunities to types. Remember that Venusaur can't be poisoned, Fire-types can't be burned, and Grass-types are immune to powder moves. Also, defensiveness should take base stats in effect. It's hard to label a frail Pokemon as defensive just because of a few resistances.

    My point is that while strategic pairs are great, remember that in-game is not as hard as competitive. I've even used a Delcatty to success. Base it on your favorites; looks, stats, typing, power. Take in anything that may make you change your mind about something. Whatever you feel. I like a diversity in my party, so I'm using the grass-type starter.
     

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