Discussion Counters to Glaceon GX (ULP)

[FrostBiter12]

So, as a Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX player, I'm appalled at the power that Glaceon GX has due to its Freezing Stare ability (which says that as long as this Pokémon is in the active position, each of you opponent's Pokémon GX and EX have no abilities {besides Freezing Stare}). Is there any counter to this card besides Solgaleo GX (the PR from the boxes since that will be released a while afterwards)? Some ideas could be (in no particular order)...

Here is a link to the definition of Glaceon GX here on Pokebeach!

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Hoopa (SHL): Due to Hoopa's Scoundrel Ring ability, it can't be affected by attacks from your opponent's Pokémon GX or EX. This means that your opponent will have to have something other than Glaceon GX in the active when their turns ends (after they attack) so Freezing Stare (Glaceon GX's ability) will have no effect.

Guzma (BUS): Since almost all decks run it, Guzma can help against this matchup as long as your opponent has something other than Glaceon GX on their bench. The only problem is finding it since you can't Wonder Tag (Tapu Lele GX) for it.

Escape Rope (SUM): Since it is an item that has uses in other matches, Escape Rope has potential in almost any deck. The problem is that your opponent chooses who to promote, like another Glaceon GX (defeating the purpose of playing it).

Hawlucha (STS): This card technically does the same thing as Escape Rope, but has the drawback of taking up bench space in order to do so.

Volcarona (SHL): Same problems as Escape Rope and Hawlucha plus the fact that it is a Stage 1. The main benefit is that you can do it every turn unlike either of the cards mentioned above.

Counter Catcher (CRI): Due to Glaceon GX taking K.O.s early game (in theory), Counter Cather can usually take effect sooner then later. Only thing is that it can't be searched for (like Escape Rope) and doesn't usually help in any other matchup.

Spread Damage/Devolution (Combo): Decks that can take advantage of this combo (like Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX) have a small advantage in the fact that Eevee has 60 HP. Tapu Koko (PR), Latios (SHL), Weavile (BUS which has the added bonus of dealing 60 damage to both Eevee with Energy Evolution and Glaceon GX with Freezing Stare), and anything else you can think of that damage the bench can be thrown in. Espeon EX (BKP) is the easiest option for devolution though Shining Jirachi (SHL) is another potential option.

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These are just a few things that I can think of at the moment, I'll update this thread if I have anymore. Let me know if you have any ideas on how to counter (catcher) Glaceon GX and thoughts on the suggestions above. Thanks!

 

[semurphy444]

Technically, you can counter Freezing Stare with Garbodor's Garbotoxin. But you're no further ahead, as abilities are still shut off.

Additionally you could play Repel, which is just half of the Escape Rope (if you already have a designated attacker active) - but it's their choice- see same issues with this.

And I'll save my most useful answer for the end- Kartana might be the most playable option in a non-metal deck? For a Metal (or Rainbow), DCE with a choice band- you'll get the OHKO due to weakness.

 

[FrostBiter12]

Technically, you can counter Freezing Stare with Garbodor's Garbotoxin. But you're no further ahead, as abilities are still shut off.

Additionally you could play Repel, which is just half of the Escape Rope (if you already have a designated attacker active) - but it's their choice- see same issues with this.

And I'll save my most useful answer for the end- Kartana might be the most playable option in a non-metal deck? For a Metal (or Rainbow), DCE with a choice band- you'll get the OHKO due to weakness.

Good ideas, I mainly like the Kartana GX. Only problem I have with this card is being TwoHKOed by Frozen Bullet, but Slice off (Kartana GX's ability) should slow down Glaceon GX a bit so you can set Kartana GX up and if you need to you can shuffle a weakened Kartana GX back into your deck to preserve prizes with Gale Blade. It is also useful in other matchups with its ability and Blade GX, so it is definitely an option in Rainbow Energy related decks (Metal decks don't necessarily need it since they already have the advantage over Glaceon GX). Anyways, good idea, Kartana GX is a great counter to Glaceon GX. Let us know if you have any other ideas, thanks!

 

[semurphy444]

but Slice off (Kartana GX's ability) should slow down Glaceon GX

Except it probably wont... You're still ability blocked... This was the same thing I briefly thought of was Lycanroc's Blood Thirsty Eyes- 'Oh its a Lysander' But its still not active unless one of those previous counters are mentioned.

 

[Jacktropolis]

Oranguru and octillery will be good choices for bench sitting draw support. Also with how much love metal is getting and how absurdly good the new Solgaleo GX is Glaceon may not see as much play as it probably should because Glaceons ability is ridiculously good.....but like I said theres a good chance Solgaleo GX rules the format when he's released and Glaceon gets absolutely run over by it

 

[triplemo]

start wobbuffet, shutting off T1 Energy evolution. Since leles also psychic type you can still use it.

 

[FrostBiter12]

start wobbuffet, shutting off T1 Energy evolution. Since leles also psychic type you can still use it.

Good point, I've never really thought of Wobbuffet since it shuts off most of the abilities (except Tapu Lele GX as you mentioned) in the decks I play (like Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX), but it does makes sense. The hard part is starting with it since you'd most likely waste an Ultra Ball to grab it (meaning you can't grab Tapu Lele GX). In that case, I'd probably just play another Brigette instead of that tech card. Actually, I guess that is what we could all do. Instead of playing a tech card, just throw in another Brigette so instead of drawing the tech, you draw a Brigette. Something that could be thought about I guess. Let me know what you think, thanks!

 

[woahaustin]

If you're playing zoroark/decidueye, you could just attack it with Zoroark GX since you 2 hit KO it, and without damage modifiers, Glaceon needs to either attack, and then waste its GX on you, or hit you 3 times. I think rather than teching the deck and ultimately hurting your consistency on a single match up, it would make more sense to thicken your zoroark line.

 

[Fou-Link]

Glaceon GX is really strong on turn 1. It can shut off your Lele's for the end of the game, and you may never set-up.
That's why I think people should now play 3 or even 4 Brigette.

 

[FrostBiter12]

If you're playing zoroark/decidueye, you could just attack it with Zoroark GX since you 2 hit KO it, and without damage modifiers, Glaceon needs to either attack, and then waste its GX on you, or hit you 3 times. I think rather than teching the deck and ultimately hurting your consistency on a single match up, it would make more sense to thicken your zoroark line.

Makes sense, but it is hard to get out Zorua in the first place without Brigette, especially enough of them to consistently give an edge on Glaceon GX. I agree with you though that teching against it doesn't really give to much of an edge either. Adding more Brigettes (as @Fou-Link mentioned) seems better since it helps in other matchups as well. I will try thickening my Zorua/Zoroark line as you mentioned @woahaustin and let you know how it goes. Thanks!

 

[Mhunter93]

I think this is one of those cards you can't counter early game, you just play around it using repel, escape rope, guzma, etc.
Maybe adding other attackers to the list could help.

Here are some examples:
Tauros GX can force it to switch tactic since glaceon can't attack tauros without getting a mad bull GX
Drampa GX can help you set up and discard DCE from Glaceon GX which will most likely force your opponent to use another tactic.
Espeon GX is a card that can play around it, confusion usually force retreat.

The list goes on, so just pick a method of your own and go for it, this card will change the meta for sure and you will just learn to play around it (like everyone learned how to play around tauros).

 

[FrostBiter12]

I think this is one of those cards you can't counter early game, you just play around it using repel, escape rope, guzma, etc.
Maybe adding other attackers to the list could help.

Here are some examples:
Tauros GX can force it to switch tactic since glaceon can't attack tauros without getting a mad bull GX
Drampa GX can help you set up and discard DCE from Glaceon GX which will most likely force your opponent to use another tactic.
Espeon GX is a card that can play around it, confusion usually force retreat.

The list goes on, so just pick a method of your own and go for it, this card will change the meta for sure and you will just learn to play around it (like everyone learned how to play around tauros).

Great points, I definitely agree with you about peoples' playstyles having to change just as it did with Tauros GX (as you mentioned) and Garbodor (GRI). All three of your examples are valid in this sense, I think that the main objective with countering Glaceon GX is to force your opponent to move it. It is a lot harder to do so yourself (besides Guzma, which takes your supporter for the turn), so things like Hoopa (SHL), Tauros (SUM), and various status conditions (like Confusion) can do the trick as well. Speaking of status conditions, a question that has created some "confusion" in my area is asking if an ability can still be used under conditions like Paralysis and Asleep, which has been ruled as they can't (I agree to this), but I was wondering if someone officially knows what the proper outcome is? Anyways, great suggestions @Mhunter93, let me know if you have any more. Thanks!

 

[AFEX]

So, as a Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX player, I'm appalled at the power that Glaceon GX has due to its Freezing Stare ability (which says that as long as this Pokémon is in the active position, each of you opponent's Pokémon GX and EX have no abilities {besides Freezing Stare}). Is there any counter to this card besides Solgaleo GX (the PR from the boxes since that will be released a while afterwards)? Some ideas could be (in no particular order)...

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Hoopa (SHL): Due to Hoopa's Scoundrel Ring ability, it can't be affected by attacks from your opponent's Pokémon GX or EX. This means that your opponent will have to have something other than Glaceon GX in the active when their turns ends (after they attack) so Freezing Stare (Glaceon GX's ability) will have no effect.

Guzma (BUS): Since almost all decks run it, Guzma can help against this matchup as long as your opponent has something other than Glaceon GX on their bench. The only problem is finding it since you can't Wonder Tag (Tapu Lele GX) for it.

Escape Rope (SUM): Since it is an item that has uses in other matches, Escape Rope has potential in almost any deck. The problem is that your opponent chooses who to promote, like another Glaceon GX (defeating the purpose of playing it).

Hawlucha (STS): This card technically does the same thing as Escape Rope, but has the drawback of taking up bench space in order to do so.

Volcarona (SHL): Same problems as Escape Rope and Hawlucha plus the fact that it is a Stage 1. The main benefit is that you can do it every turn unlike either of the cards mentioned above.

Counter Catcher (CRI): Due to Glaceon GX taking K.O.s early game (in theory), Counter Cather can usually take effect sooner then later. Only thing is that it can't be searched for (like Escape Rope) and doesn't usually help in any other matchup.

Spread Damage/Devolution (Combo): Decks that can take advantage of this combo (like Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX) have a small advantage in the fact that Eevee has 60 HP. Tapu Koko (PR), Latios (SHL), Weavile (BUS which has the added bonus of dealing 60 damage to both Eevee with Energy Evolution and Glaceon GX with Freezing Stare), and anything else you can think of that damage the bench can be thrown in. Espeon EX (BKP) is the easiest option for devolution though Shining Jirachi (SHL) is another potential option.

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These are just a few things that I can think of at the moment, I'll update this thread if I have anymore. Let me know if you have any ideas on how to counter (catcher) Glaceon GX and thoughts on the suggestions above. Thanks!

Not that it'd ever see play, but maybe Porygon Z from BUS?

I was considering W/ Rare Candy, Decidueye/Zoro/Golisopod based deck this could have some potential play against Glaceon GX.
Maybe like this~

-Do heavy damage from Decidueye/Zoro/Golisopod (Heavy Attacker of any sort, a Basic or Stage 1) onto Glaceon GX
- Evolve Porygon into Porygon Z
- Use Porygon Z's ability
- Boom, Devolve KO Glaceon GX.

This card could really be Godly in an evolution based Meta-Game, considering it's easy to set up.
Maybe a Mr. Mime (Bench Barrier) addition, For those Koko/Alolan Ninetales GX type decks, that snipe bench, so you can keep Porygon Z safe?

Thanks for reading, AFEX

 

[biffthepotato]

I think there where a lot of good ideas to counter Glaceon GX but my favorites where, using kartana GX to 1 HKO the other Glaceons with a choice band, and what I will probably do, spread with koko and attack with Zoroark GX because your opponent wont be able to 1 HKO you and devolve with espeon EX.

I think that thicker lines of zoroark would help with this mach up like I play a 3-3 line in zoroark/decidueye but this card will definitely change the game

 

[FrostBiter12]

Not that it'd ever see play, but maybe Porygon Z from BUS?
View attachment 14660
I was considering W/ Rare Candy, Decidueye/Zoro/Golisopod based deck this could have some potential play against Glaceon GX.
Maybe like this~

-Do heavy damage from Decidueye/Zoro/Golisopod (Heavy Attacker of any sort, a Basic or Stage 1) onto Glaceon GX
- Evolve Porygon into Porygon Z
- Use Porygon Z's ability
- Boom, Devolve KO Glaceon GX.

This card could really be Godly in an evolution based Meta-Game, considering it's easy to set up.
Maybe a Mr. Mime (Bench Barrier) addition, For those Koko/Alolan Ninetales GX type decks, that snipe bench, so you can keep Porygon Z safe?

Thanks for reading, AFEX

Cool idea, @AFEX, but the main problem I have with this card is the required set up needed to get Porygon-Z out on the field (and finding room for it in your deck in the first place). Getting a Stage 2 in decks like Gardevoir GX and Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX is usually easy due to the draw power of abilities (like Trade, Wonder Tag, etc.), but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute (especially since turn 1 Brigette is removed from my options). In most cases, I'd rather build up another attacker to get rid of Glaceon GX than have 6 cards (a 2-2-2 line of Porygon-Z) tech in my deck devoted to just one Pokémon. Even if you do get Porygon-Z up once, that Pokémon just sits there for the rest of the game and takes up valuable bench space, removing the accessibility to other cards.

I do like the general idea of Devolution though, so Espeon EX (in my opinion), works just as well (though it is a little slower) against Glaceon GX and other decks. Mr. Mime as well can just help against a few other decks as well including (as you mentioned) Tapu Koko/Alolan Ninetales GX and Buzzwole GX, so finding space for this wouldn't hurt consistency as much. Anyways, cool idea, but I think that Porgon-Z is a little too clunky to be played in decks that already have another evolution line to worry about. Let me know what you think and if you have any more ideas, thanks!

 

[FrostBiter12]

I think there where a lot of good ideas to counter Glaceon GX but my favorites where, using kartana GX to 1 HKO the other Glaceons with a choice band, and what I will probably do, spread with koko and attack with Zoroark GX because your opponent wont be able to 1 HKO you and devolve with espeon EX.

I think that thicker lines of zoroark would help with this mach up like I play a 3-3 line in zoroark/decidueye but this card will definitely change the game

I agree, Glaceon GX is definitely going to shake up the current meta, just have to wait for Solgaleo GX to "steel" the spotlight from Glaceon GX. In the mean time, Kartana GX (though it will require Rainbow Energy in most decks in order to play it) is a potential option. Tapu Koko/Espeon EX is probably my favorite tech of them all at the moment since it can be used against other decks as well. It turns out that I already play a 3-3 line of Zoroark GX in my Decidueye GX variant, but playing a copy of Zoroark (BKT) would help as well.

 

[AFEX]

Cool idea, @AFEX, but the main problem I have with this card is the required set up needed to get Porygon-Z out on the field (and finding room for it in your deck in the first place). Getting a Stage 2 in decks like Gardevoir GX and Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX is usually easy due to the draw power of abilities (like Trade, Wonder Tag, etc.), but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute (especially since turn 1 Brigette is removed from my options). In most cases, I'd rather build up another attacker to get rid of Glaceon GX than have 6 cards (a 2-2-2 line of Porygon-Z) tech in my deck devoted to just one Pokémon. Even if you do get Porygon-Z up once, that Pokémon just sits there for the rest of the game and takes up valuable bench space, removing the accessibility to other cards.

I do like the general idea of Devolution though, so Espeon EX (in my opinion), works just as well (though it is a little slower) against Glaceon GX and other decks. Mr. Mime as well can just help against a few other decks as well including (as you mentioned) Tapu Koko/Alolan Ninetales GX and Buzzwole GX, so finding space for this wouldn't hurt consistency as much. Anyways, cool idea, but I think that Porgon-Z is a little too clunky to be played in decks that already have another evolution line to worry about. Let me know what you think and if you have any more ideas, thanks!

You missed my point by a few feet. Porygon Z's has devolution as an ability rather than an attack, so I like it far more than Espeon, because once Espeon uses that attack it's leaving room for it to get KO'd the next turn, so I decided to make a few Pro/Con bullets for my rebuttal.

Espeon EX

Pros-
-Basic Pokemon
-170 HP (Can take a hit, usually)
-1 Energy Devolution attack (Pretty good, considering the card)
-Psychic type (Psychic types in meta, besides Lele, aren't common)
-Can tech a Weakness policy if faced by a Lele (still might not survive, but who knows)

Cons-
Using Miraculous Shine (Even if getting a KO using it) can leave room for opponent to also get a KO on Espeon
You can start with it, It's annoying.

Porygon Z

Pros-
-Can Devolve Pokemon from the bench rather than the active position, leaving far less room for your opponent to switcheroo PZ and KO it.
-Buzzwole GX isn't an issue if PZ techs a Weakness Policy.
-Mr Mime is the answer if PZ is getting Bench Sniped by a Koko, Ninetales, Decidueye, etc.
-More affordable than an Espeon EX
-Great in a deck with Stage 1 or Basics (from what I've tested and written on paper)
-Only need to have 1-1-1 line if using devolution spray, to abuse a singular evolution, unless prized.

Cons-
-Stage 2
-A slight pain to set up
-Fighting weakness could be bad against Buzzwole if not teching Weakness Policy
- Could get prized if not running a 2-2-2

So that's my bullet rebuttal. Oh and I was wondering you said in your response, "...but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute..." Abilities as in like using actual abilities, or like using trainers, items, or supporters, because they're (In Standard, which is the format in which this conversation is held in) are only a few hindrances to setting up PZ.

-Garbodor (which hasn't been seeing huge amounts of play, it's been decreasing)
-Noivern GX (Item Lock?)

Those are all I could think of, there are probably more though. On the Garbodor wavelength, PZ has to be in discard though to effect PZ's devolution ability, but I doubt Glaceon GX is going to tech Garbodor. So if that was the main elephant in the room you were talking about, all you have to do is keep PZ out of discard's way, which can be hard under certain circumstances.

That's my piece though,
Thanks, AFEX.

 

[FrostBiter12]

You missed my point by a few feet. Porygon Z's has devolution as an ability rather than an attack, so I like it far more than Espeon, because once Espeon uses that attack it's leaving room for it to get KO'd the next turn, so I decided to make a few Pro/Con bullets for my rebuttal.

Espeon EX

Pros-
-Basic Pokemon
-170 HP (Can take a hit, usually)
-1 Energy Devolution attack (Pretty good, considering the card)
-Psychic type (Psychic types in meta, besides Lele, aren't common)
-Can tech a Weakness policy if faced by a Lele (still might not survive, but who knows)

Cons-
Using Miraculous Shine (Even if getting a KO using it) can leave room for opponent to also get a KO on Espeon
You can start with it, It's annoying.

Porygon Z

Pros-
-Can Devolve Pokemon from the bench rather than the active position, leaving far less room for your opponent to switcheroo PZ and KO it.
-Buzzwole GX isn't an issue if PZ techs a Weakness Policy.
-Mr Mime is the answer if PZ is getting Bench Sniped by a Koko, Ninetales, Decidueye, etc.
-More affordable than an Espeon EX
-Great in a deck with Stage 1 or Basics (from what I've tested and written on paper)
-Only need to have 1-1-1 line if using devolution spray, to abuse a singular evolution, unless prized.

Cons-
-Stage 2
-A slight pain to set up
-Fighting weakness could be bad against Buzzwole if not teching Weakness Policy
- Could get prized if not running a 2-2-2

So that's my bullet rebuttal. Oh and I was wondering you said in your response, "...but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute..." Abilities as in like using actual abilities, or like using trainers, items, or supporters, because they're (In Standard, which is the format in which this conversation is held in) are only a few hindrances to setting up PZ.

-Garbodor (which hasn't been seeing huge amounts of play, it's been decreasing)
-Noivern GX (Item Lock?)

Those are all I could think of, there are probably more though. On the Garbodor wavelength, PZ has to be in discard though to effect PZ's devolution ability, but I doubt Glaceon GX is going to tech Garbodor. So if that was the main elephant in the room you were talking about, all you have to do is keep PZ out of discard's way, which can be hard under certain circumstances.

That's my piece though,
Thanks, AFEX.

So, I'll try and explain my point once more. Here it goes...

I understand that Porygon-Z's devolution effect is an ability (which is better than an attack) while Espeon EX uses a move, but if you're referring to speed, Espeon EX takes one turn to set up (bench it and attach an energy) while Porygon-Z takes at least two turns (one to bench a Porygon, two to evolve, three if you miss the evolution by Rare Candy {which will most likely happen with only a 2-2-2 line}). Even if you use the attack, what can take the K.O. on the 170 HP Pokémon (meaning, after crippling your opponent by removing there main attackers {bench is included for the attack, not just the active}, what can they use to take the return K.O.?). Buzzwole GX could, but why would you set down a Espeon EX against a Buzzwole GX deck?

So, here are my thoughts on you Pros and Cons (they will be in Bold text).

Espeon EX

Pros-

-Basic Pokémon: A lot faster than Porygon-Z-170 HP (Can take a hit, usually): Espeon EX will most of the time not get K.O.ed if you play it correctly, just use it at the correct moment and leave your opponent no room to maneuver afterwards.

-1 Energy Devolution attack (Pretty good, considering the card): Just to make sure you aren't confused, Espeon EX's attack works on all of your opponent's evolutions just like Porygon-Z.

-Psychic type (Psychic types in meta, besides Lele, aren't common): Besides Garbodor, you're correct which means that Espeon EX doesn't have much to worry about with Weakness.

-Can tech a Weakness policy if faced by a Lele (still might not survive, but who knows): So, just to point out, here is text from Tapu Lele GX's Energy Drive attack: "...This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to both Active Pokémon. This damage isn't affect by Weakness or Resistance..." This means that a Weakness Policy isn't necessary.

Cons-

Using Miraculous Shine (Even if getting a KO using it) can leave room for opponent to also get a KO on Espeon.: Correct, but as mentioned above, if you play it correctly you can leave your opponent attacker-less, so Espeon EX doesn't normally get K.O.ed (even if it does, it has most likely done its job)

You can start with it, It's annoying.: That is the one downside, but it goes both ways with Porygon, not to mention that you play two Porygon instead of one Espeon EX.


Porygon Z

Pros-

-Can Devolve Pokemon from the bench rather than the active position, leaving far less room for your opponent to switcheroo PZ and KO it.: If I were playing against a deck that uses Porygon-Z, I wouldn't want to target it since it doesn't help my opponent after it has been used (since it can only be used once, unlike Espeon EX).

-Buzzwole GX isn't an issue if PZ techs a Weakness Policy.: The main problem I have with this statement is that you would set up Porygon-Z to use against a deck (Buzzwole GX) that doesn't really use evolutions in the first place. Weakness Policy in general is another tech to try and fit in, which is now at least seven cards.

-Mr Mime is the answer if PZ is getting Bench Sniped by a Koko, Ninetales, Decidueye, etc.: The tech count is now up to at least eight, which really lowers the consistency of your deck.

-More affordable than an Espeon EX: This is correct, and I do agree with this point. If you need to though, Shining Jirachi works a little better as a one-prize basic that devolves all the way down to the basic and is affordable.

-Great in a deck with Stage 1 or Basics (from what I've tested and written on paper): Correct, as long as it doesn't mess with the consistency as much you could use it, but Espeon EX does work better since it takes less space and can use any type of energy with Miraculous Shine.

-Only need to have 1-1-1 line if using devolution spray, to abuse a singular evolution, unless prized.: This means that it is harder to get up Porygon-Z since you only play a 1-1-1 line, the Devolution Spray can only be used once if you get it at the right moment if you need it at that moment, which is very situational.

Cons-

-Stage 2: Hard to find room for, I agree.-A slight pain to set up: I would say that it is much harder to set up Porygon-Z and charge up an attacker or two at the same time.

-Fighting weakness could be bad against Buzzwole if not teching Weakness Policy: As mentioned above, I wouldn't set up Porygon-Z if I were playing against Buzzwole GX, so this isn't an issue except for lowering consistency.

- Could get prized if not running a 2-2-2: Correct, and it doesn't help when you take a prize and draw into it later on at the wrong moment.

When I mentioned "...but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute..." I believe I was talking about using abilities like Trade, Wonder Tag, etc. to help accelerate cards like evolution lines, Rare Candy, etc. which is disrupted while under Glaceon GX's ability lock (which is what this article is about). Not shutting down Porygon-Z itself, just the cards need to get it out (even if you get one out, you get one chance to devolve your opponent and then have to be able to take out all of there Eevee's at once). When you mentioned "...On the Garbodor wavelength, PZ has to be in discard though to effect PZ's devolution ability, but I doubt Glaceon GX is going to tech Garbodor. So if that was the main elephant in the room you were talking about, all you have to do is keep PZ out of discard's way, which can be hard under certain circumstances...", I don't completely understand what you're trying to say. Why would Porygon-Z have to be in the discard pile to effect its own ability, and why would you then want to keep it out of the discard?

Anyways, thanks for your explanation, just let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

[AFEX]

So, I'll try and explain my point once more. Here it goes...

I understand that Porygon-Z's devolution effect is an ability (which is better than an attack) while Espeon EX uses a move, but if you're referring to speed, Espeon EX takes one turn to set up (bench it and attach an energy) while Porygon-Z takes at least two turns (one to bench a Porygon, two to evolve, three if you miss the evolution by Rare Candy {which will most likely happen with only a 2-2-2 line}). Even if you use the attack, what can take the K.O. on the 170 HP Pokémon (meaning, after crippling your opponent by removing there main attackers {bench is included for the attack, not just the active}, what can they use to take the return K.O.?). Buzzwole GX could, but why would you set down a Espeon EX against a Buzzwole GX deck?

So, here are my thoughts on you Pros and Cons (they will be in Bold text).

Espeon EX

Pros-

-Basic Pokémon: A lot faster than Porygon-Z-170 HP (Can take a hit, usually): Espeon EX will most of the time not get K.O.ed if you play it correctly, just use it at the correct moment and leave your opponent no room to maneuver afterwards.-1 Energy Devolution attack (Pretty good, considering the card): Just to make sure you aren't confused, Espeon EX's attack works on all of your opponent's evolutions just like Porygon-Z.-Psychic type (Psychic types in meta, besides Lele, aren't common): Besides Garbodor, you're correct which means that Espeon EX doesn't have much to worry about with Weakness.
-Can tech a Weakness policy if faced by a Lele (still might not survive, but who knows): So, just to point out, here is text from Tapu Lele GX's Energy Drive attack: "...This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to both Active Pokémon. This damage isn't affect by Weakness or Resistance..." This means that a Weakness Policy isn't necessary.

Cons-

Using Miraculous Shine (Even if getting a KO using it) can leave room for opponent to also get a KO on Espeon.: Correct, but as mentioned above, if you play it correctly you can leave your opponent attacker-less, so Espeon EX doesn't normally get K.O.ed (even if it does, it has most likely done its job)You can start with it, It's annoying.: that is the one downside, but it goes both ways with Porygon, not to mention that you play two Porygon instead of one Espeon EX.


Porygon Z

Pros-

-Can Devolve Pokemon from the bench rather than the active position, leaving far less room for your opponent to switcheroo PZ and KO it.: If I were playing against a deck that uses Porygon-Z, I wouldn't want to target it since it doesn't help my opponent after it has been used (since it can only be used once, unlike Espeon EX).-Buzzwole GX isn't an issue if PZ techs a Weakness Policy.: The main problem I have with this statement is that you would set up Porygon-Z to use against a deck (Buzzwole GX) that doesn't really use evolutions in the first place. Weakness Policy in general is another tech to try and fit in, which is now at least seven cards.-Mr Mime is the answer if PZ is getting Bench Sniped by a Koko, Ninetales, Decidueye, etc.: The tech count is now up to at least eight, which really lowers the consistency of your deck.-More affordable than an Espeon EX: This is correct, and I do agree with this point. If you need to though, Shining Jirachi works a little better as a one-prize basic that devolves all the way down to the basic and is affordable.-Great in a deck with Stage 1 or Basics (from what I've tested and written on paper): Correct, as long as it doesn't mess with the consistency as much you could use it, but Espeon EX does work better since it takes less space and can use any type of energy with Miraculous Shine.
-Only need to have 1-1-1 line if using devolution spray, to abuse a singular evolution, unless prized.: This means that it is harder to get up Porygon-Z since you only play a 1-1-1 line, the Devolution Spray can only be used once if you get it at the right moment if you need it at that moment, which is very situational.

Cons-

-Stage 2: Hard to find room for, I agree.-A slight pain to set up: I would say that it is much harder to set up Porygon-Z and charge up an attacker or two at the same time.-Fighting weakness could be bad against Buzzwole if not teching Weakness Policy: As mentioned above, I wouldn't set up Porygon-Z if I were playing against Buzzwole GX, so this isn't an issue except for lowering consistency.
- Could get prized if not running a 2-2-2: Correct, and it doesn't help when you take a prize and draw into it later on at the wrong moment.

When I mentioned "...but attempting to due so under ability lock is really hard to execute..." I believe I was talking about using abilities like Trade, Wonder Tag, etc. to help accelerate cards like evolution lines, Rare Candy, etc. which is disrupted while under Glaceon GX's ability lock (which is what this article is about). Not shutting down Porygon-Z itself, just the cards need to get it out (even if you get one out, you get one chance to devolve your opponent and then have to be able to take out all of there Eevee's at once). When you mentioned "...On the Garbodor wavelength, PZ has to be in discard though to effect PZ's devolution ability, but I doubt Glaceon GX is going to tech Garbodor. So if that was the main elephant in the room you were talking about, all you have to do is keep PZ out of discard's way, which can be hard under certain circumstances...", I don't completely understand what you're trying to say. Why would Porygon-Z have to be in the discard pile to effect its own ability, and why would you then want to keep it out of the discard?

Anyways, thanks for your explanation, just let me know what you think. Thanks!

OH IT HAS ABILITY LOCK?

(Changes deck immediately)

Aw, weak to metal though, knew their had to be a catch...

 

[TheJollyFlyingMan]

As a Buzzwole/Garb player I'm happy Glaceon barely effects me (outside of locking Lele, which I do myself half the time anyway with Garbotoxin)